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Old 04-09-2013, 02:55 PM   #1
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Run the ball more?

I was on another message board and was discussing the Patriots, and one guy said that the pats issue is that its the Brady air show and we do not run the ball as much as we used to when we were winning superbowls....so of course I researched this, and well....it seems thats not the case.

2001 Smith was primary RB
473 carries 1793 yards

2003 Faulk and Smith were primary RB's
473 carries 1607 yards

2004 Dillon was primary RB
524 carries 2134 yards

2012 Vareen/Ridley/etc
523 carries 2184 yards

So as you can see....we did in fact run the ball as much or more than superbowl years....now lets take a look at the two years we did not make the playoffs since Brady took over as QB 2002 and 2008.

2002 Smith and Faulk
395 carries 1508 yards
Not good, but, that was also the year we were ranked in the 20's in defense.

Here is the one that got me
2008
513 carries 2278 yards
Our highest rushing total since 1995....no playoffs.

So I think its been a bit more tied to the defense than how many times we have rushed the ball.
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Old 04-10-2013, 06:55 AM   #2
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With the current WR corp?





Yup.
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Old 04-10-2013, 09:58 AM   #3
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With the current WR corp?





Yup.
Good point. I just found it interesting that the general feeling is, we used to be this run first team when we "won superbowls" and its not really the case, we run as much as we always did.
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Old 04-10-2013, 05:35 PM   #4
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Good point. I just found it interesting that the general feeling is, we used to be this run first team when we "won superbowls" and its not really the case, we run as much as we always did.
Yup!
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:02 PM   #5
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Yup!
Eh every once in awhile I fall onto something that does not completely come off as stupid to everyone and gets me banned by the power tripping Mods.
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Old 04-10-2013, 07:15 PM   #6
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So I think its been a bit more tied to the defense than how many times we have rushed the ball.
Non-Pats fans have been saying this for years while some people like to give Brady all the credit.

Rushing and defense are related though. For example, in 2004 you guys had the #1 defense. Non coincidentally, that year the Pats had 524 rushing attempts to 485 passing attempts.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:41 AM   #7
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Non-Pats fans have been saying this for years while some people like to give Brady all the credit.

Rushing and defense are related though. For example, in 2004 you guys had the #1 defense. Non coincidentally, that year the Pats had 524 rushing attempts to 485 passing attempts.
yeah but last year we ran 523 times and our defense was not very good, so that kind of rules that out.....actually only in 2003 did we have the number 1 defense and our rushing attack was 29th overall. As far as Brady credit, well lets just say he deserve everything he gets....Also defense goes hand in hand when you have to throw more because you are having to score more or keep drives going and well that little notion that you have a good rushing attack too, but I can find zero correlation to our run game, winning superbowls or defense.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:58 PM   #8
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yeah but last year we ran 523 times and our defense was not very good, so that kind of rules that out.....actually only in 2003 did we have the number 1 defense and our rushing attack was 29th overall.
Last year you guys had a top 10 defense in points, and every year but two you guys have been top 10. While in 2003 you guys didn't have as many yards, you still had more attempts than the opposing schedule. If a defense gives up too many points, you have to pass more to catch up, at least that's what I think.



Quote:
As far as Brady credit, well lets just say he deserve everything he gets....


Quote:
Also defense goes hand in hand when you have to throw more because you are having to score more or keep drives going and well that little notion that you have a good rushing attack too, but I can find zero correlation to our run game, winning superbowls or defense.
I think the passing attack helps the defense too by keeping your own defense on the bench, just like running--but football is a clock game--if the defense isn't giving up points teams generally eat clock more often than not by running the ball.

That is often magnified in the playoffs. Have you looked at playoffs wins vs playoff losses for the Patriots, and compared the run to pass ratio attempts?

Last edited by MAYHEM; 04-11-2013 at 02:22 PM..
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:12 PM   #9
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I can find zero correlation to our run game, winning superbowls or defense.
I'd bet that if you made a scatter plot with defensive rank on one axis and rushing attempts on the other, you would see positive linear correlation. Just a guess though, and not a large enough sample with just the pats. Perhaps using all NFL teams would be better.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:25 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by MAYHEM View Post
I'd bet that if you made a scatter plot with defensive rank on one axis and rushing attempts on the other, you would see positive linear correlation. Just a guess though, and not a large enough sample with just the pats. Perhaps using all NFL teams would be better.
I just said I could see none here...a worse defense usually means you have to pass more, so usually you do not see good running stats associated with bad defense for that reason, although, thats kind of how it was last year on the pats, the pats had their second highest running total in the Belichick era, and their second most yards in a decade but the defense was still toward the bottom end of the spectrum, where as in 2003 the pats had the number 1 defense and were 29th in rushing....so at least with this team, I see no correlation.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:27 PM   #11
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Last year you guys had a top 10 defense in points, and every year but two you guys have been top 10. While in 2003 you guys didn't have as many yards, you still had more attempts than the opposing schedule. If a defense gives up too many points, you have to pass more to catch up, at least that's what I think.







I think the passing attack helps the defense too by keeping your own defense on the bench, just like running--but football is a clock game--if the defense isn't giving up points teams generally eat clock more often than not by running the ball.

That is often magnified in the playoffs. Have you looked at playoffs wins vs playoff losses for the Patriots, and compared the run to pass ratio attempts?
Flat out if you are behind you are going to pass more, this is not something with the patriots or any other team, its how it is....usually more attempts on rushing come when you are ahead and trying to close a game out.....the pats set a record last year in 1st downs on offense, which is about as you can for keeping your defense off the field and the defense was below average. In fact that lower points total had more to do with that than the defense did who on 3rd down conversions, average drive length were not bad, they were horrible.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:47 PM   #12
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I just said I could see none here...a worse defense usually means you have to pass more, so usually you do not see good running stats associated with bad defense for that reason, although, thats kind of how it was last year on the pats, the pats had their second highest running total in the Belichick era, and their second most yards in a decade but the defense was still toward the bottom end of the spectrum, where as in 2003 the pats had the number 1 defense and were 29th in rushing....so at least with this team, I see no correlation.
Run the ball more means more attempts, not necessarily yards.

The Pats defense were 9th in points last year--ahead of 23 other teams.

Pats have had a top ten defense every year but two since 2001. Those years were 2002 and 2011. In both those years they ran way less.

In 2002 they were ranked 17th in defense and were ranked 28th in rushing attempts.

In 2011 they were ranked 15th in defense and were ranked 17th in rushing attempts.

Every year they were a top ten defense they also were ranked top ten in rushing attempts, except in 2003 with their rushing attempts ranking in at 12th.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:51 PM   #13
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Flat out if you are behind you are going to pass more, this is not something with the patriots or any other team, its how it is....usually more attempts on rushing come when you are ahead and trying to close a game out.....
Yeah, which is the main reason why teams with good defenses tend to have more rushing attempts.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:57 PM   #14
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Run the ball more means more attempts, not necessarily yards.

The Pats defense were 9th in points last year--ahead of 23 other teams.

Pats have had a top ten defense every year but two since 2001. Those years were 2002 and 2011. In both those years they ran way less.

In 2002 they were ranked 17th in defense and were ranked 28th in rushing attempts.

In 2011 they were ranked 15th in defense and were ranked 17th in rushing attempts.

Every year they were a top ten defense they also were ranked top ten in rushing attempts, except in 2003 with their rushing attempts ranking in at 12th.
Top 10 in scoring? Rushing attempts, last year they had the second most and are you actually going to tell me the defense was good? Come on...as I said the offense had the most first downs in NFL history and the defense was bad. Defensive points are nice, but also dependent on other things....like the offense doing well. If our offense was bad, our defense points given up would have been one of the worst...not turning the ball over, long drives, things like that equal not giving up a lot of points. The pats were 22nd in 3rd down coversion given up on defense last year, they gave up by average the longest drive total in the league...that means your offense has to stay on the field or its curtains...
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:11 PM   #15
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Top 10 in scoring? Rushing attempts, last year they had the second most and are you actually going to tell me the defense was good?
They were ranked 9th, yes I am saying a top 10 defense is good by NFL standards. The Pats have room to improve, so do other teams.

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Come on...as I said the offense had the most first downs in NFL history and the defense was bad. Defensive points are nice, but also dependent on other things....like the offense doing well. If our offense was bad, our defense points given up would have been one of the worst...not turning the ball over, long drives, things like that equal not giving up a lot of points.
Yes, I agree that the offense doing well helps the defense. Usually that means more clock too. Last year they ran the hurry no-huddle offense quite a bit (should have done it more in the playoffs). I wonder if that increased the amount of time the d was on the field?
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