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Old 02-14-2006, 04:47 PM   #151
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bacdoc
Wow, great thread.

I've really enjoyed everyone's contributions. As a Mormon or Latter Day Saint, I saw the thread's title and my defenses went up.

It's really nice to hear the opinions of intelligent adults discussing religion. (I can't believe I just wrote that on an internet forum, but then again, this isn't your typical forum).
Another one?!?!?! Man, my uniqueness is going straight down the tubes. Guess I'll have to rely on 6'7" 300lbs now. Sheeesh.
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Old 02-14-2006, 05:05 PM   #152
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I have no church affiliation right now, even though I am registered at a local catholic church because my wife's kids went to CCD classes.

I still get those monthly envelopes to place in the basket twice a service, but I toss those. One time I got a call from the parish and asked me why I wasn't using the envelopes and I told her that if I went to church (which I don't) and I decided to give a donation (which I don't), I would give cash. She then told me that if I wanted to give cash to continue, but at least deposit the weekly donation envelope so that the parish can take attendance of who comes to church.

I was a loss for words and just hung up. I still get the envelopes -

8 donation envelopes (twice each service)
2 building fund envelopes
1 charities envelope
1 parish maintenance account envelope
1 priest retirement envelope
3 prayer envelopes
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Old 02-14-2006, 05:32 PM   #153
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We get a list and an envelope, obtain them ourselves, and check off what we want the tithe to go to. And it's the layerd paper, so that way you'll have a receit at tax time. (too bad I don't own a house).

We are big tithing payers. Just about everyone does it. We are able to have scriptures and dinners and projects and things like that for free because we are able to fund ourselves thru the tithe. It also goes for the Missionary housing and bills and stuff.
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Old 02-14-2006, 08:34 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jheavner
We get a list and an envelope, obtain them ourselves, and check off what we want the tithe to go to. And it's the layerd paper, so that way you'll have a receit at tax time. (too bad I don't own a house).

We are big tithing payers. Just about everyone does it. We are able to have scriptures and dinners and projects and things like that for free because we are able to fund ourselves thru the tithe. It also goes for the Missionary housing and bills and stuff.
Tithing is a pretty interesting topic to me, because my understanding is that it is something like at least 10% of everything you earn. Is that true?

If so, I don't know how it could possibly be enforced/managed with the amount of poor folks, etc. -- even if it is a relatively small number compared to the non-Mormons, which is also what I hear.

And is there a lot of controversy about who/what is getting the tithe cash in the Mormon community?

I can imagine it must be hard to give up that much cash every year.
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Old 02-14-2006, 08:59 PM   #155
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jheavner
We get a list and an envelope, obtain them ourselves, and check off what we want the tithe to go to. And it's the layerd paper, so that way you'll have a receit at tax time. (too bad I don't own a house).

We are big tithing payers. Just about everyone does it. We are able to have scriptures and dinners and projects and things like that for free because we are able to fund ourselves thru the tithe. It also goes for the Missionary housing and bills and stuff.
I'm just curious, not all judgemental - does this mean that you can deduct it from your taxes if you have people over for dinner to discuss scripture, or if you donate money to pay people's expenses for proselytizing?
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Old 02-14-2006, 09:16 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawg73
Tithing is a pretty interesting topic to me, because my understanding is that it is something like at least 10% of everything you earn. Is that true?
That's what you are suppose to give, but I'll admit that I don't give anywhere near that much to the church.

I remember once (a long time back) asking the minister about if the 10% was before or after taxes. The way his eyes glazed over was priceless.

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Old 02-14-2006, 10:23 PM   #157
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The 10% thing is biblical I believe. Something I've never been good with, in part as the wife's not a member, and I don't think that'd be fair to her.

It's kinda funny, when my brother-in-law and sister were early in their marriage, and struggling to survive, he being the good little former missionary was always insistent on paying tithing. Even if they didn't have enough to pay rent, or car, or whatever, he'd pay that tithing. I always thought that a bit silly, but somehow (divine intervention maybe) things always worked out perfectly for them. He'd get an unexpected raise, or a bonus, or something like that right in the nick of time.

Now, they're pretty financially well off, have a nice huge house, and my wife has averaged around a car a year. Granted that's in part that he manages to find deals on cars where he always sells them for more than he paid... always. Still, right now she has a Cherokee, two Boxters (one needing some repair parts) and an Audi TT. It's sad. She'll end up selling 3 of the four, then the fourth within a year and buy something new.
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Old 02-15-2006, 01:19 AM   #158
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We pretty much live paycheck to paycheck. My husband makes great money, but we bought a lot of nice stuff and now are regretting it when the bill comes.

Our tithing is about 100 a week, depending on if he works more than 40 hours or not. It seems like a stretch, but it is amazing how it all comes together. It is an instant blessing to do so. Those who don't beleive will never experience it and subsequently never understand it.

I really don't trip off of things, my life is pretty laid back. It always works out for us, no matter what. I know He will come through. It's nice not having any stress.

10 percent is what the Bible says.

As per tax deductions, I have no clue. I would think so, though.

No controversy what so ever. I think we come off so creepy or robotic because everything seems too perfect. Everyone is pretty much a straight shooter in my Church. I was so amazed as to how peaceful everyone is. These are people that actually live by the word of their Gospel. We don't praise God and then go out to the bar and bring some unknown home, or lust after others or do things that are generally not good for you. I think "goody-two shoes" is what a lot are labeled, but most are just good people that aren't trying to hurt anyone else and follow the rules of God.
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Old 02-15-2006, 01:58 AM   #159
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Wow! Truly great thread about a generally contentious topic. You have all handled this with care and sensitivity. Stuff like this is why PP is my favorite website. Hats off to all involved.

I was raised Catholic, altar boy back when you had to still learn the mass in Latin. Intervening years and life experience hacaused me to migrate to a Toaist point of view. But to deny my inherently Christian values would be as pointless as denying the blue in my eyes. Can't get past all the organized stuff though and decry the labeling, castigations and Hellfire. Believe in a kinder, gentler more loving view and hope for the opportunity for all to find peace, love and happiness.
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Old 02-15-2006, 02:45 AM   #160
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I've been avoiding this thread the past few days...and was openly cringing when I clicked on this 158-post potential-quasi-codex entitled "Mormon Scum!", thinking perhaps a literary H-bomb had just gone off within the Planet, and by this time, perhaps there were no surviving combatants.

Wow, was I off the mark. Well done folks...but what should have I expected?

With Kubrick-inspired, Slim Pickens-falling-to-earth exuberance, I'll join in:

I have a very simple philosophy: the Golden Rule. Make a continuous effort to gain as much wisdom as possible to interpret the Rule as best you can, and let the cards fall where they may.

I'm a believer in the long-run effects of karma. I really have no idea what religious denomination that makes me (anyone with a Reader's Digest version of the multiple theologies available to someone in Virginia, please feel free to post a link). I am not a church-goer, nor am I sure I have any faith that religion is anything more than 1) a vain attempt to answer mans' eternal question, "Why?", when quite simply, there might not be an answer, and 2) an attempt to control the masses towards civility (amongst other lesser goals) via fear of the cosmic unknown by the cognoscenti, or worse tyrants, of any particular era.

I'm open to any debate on the issue, and who knows, I could change my mind. But, while I'm not a nihilist, I am an extreme skeptic of anything organized by man.

Last edited by Wandering Athol; 02-15-2006 at 02:57 AM..
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Old 02-15-2006, 07:30 AM   #161
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I see this thread is still alive and kicking... Cool!

With regards to tithing...

IMO, the Bible does state 10% of what you've been given should go back into the church, for purposes of supporting God's work (this includes things like supporting the pastor, maintaining the building, missionaries, etc.). I believe you are also encouraged to give more (tithes and offerings). The premise is, if you trust in God and do His will, He will provide for all your needs.

Personally, I try to tithe, but it doesn't all go to the church. I have some charities I give to, or I will help someone in need, things like that, and I believe that is also God's work and thus qualifies as "tithing". I'm not rich, by any means, but I do live comfortably and have all I need (and more).

Again, it's faith that's behind it all... if you trust God, and not just rely on your own thinking, He will bless you and provide for your needs.

I remember years ago, when I was still young in the faith and had just recently divorced. I had a low-paying job, tons of bills, and seemingly no way to make ends meet. The outgo was greater than the income. I struggled with tithing... it was very tempting to just throw up my hands and say there's just no way! But tithe I did, and like Moebius said above, something would always happen to help me out. An unexpected gift, a raise at work, whatever... I made it through those rough times, and while I may not have had a lot of material possessions, I had all I needed.

It is interesting how that works.....
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:30 AM   #162
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I mentioned that I was impressed with Mormonism for a couple of reasons and the fact that tithing seems to be something that is accepted without complaint is also very impressive.

My own donations to our local Catholic Church last year totaled a big, fat donut hole due to the fact that I won't set foot in there again and I don't feel the least bad about it no matter how much guilt they pounded into my head when I was a kid.

Not to say that I don't give to charity, but I don't feel like the Vatican really needs my cash to survive and haven't found another religion that works.

I could use some kind of spiritual renaissance. That I'll admit, but since Tom and Katie are splitsville now I don't think Scientology is an option.

Another thing that I like about Mormonism is that they seem to have a philosophy of working/studying hard and then playing hard that doesn't involve a culture of boozing and drugs. At least, not a widespread one.

For a poorly informed outsider it seems like they have a heavy emphasis on family, community action and clean living and that's not a bad deal.

Combine that with the missions and they seem a lot more dedicated and content about it than just about anyone I personally know that was raised a Catholic, not that many Catholics aren't both.

I just haven't happened to run across a whole lot of them.

Anyone know anything about snake handling religions? I need to look into that one.
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:39 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wandering Athol
I have a very simple philosophy: the Golden Rule. Make a continuous effort to gain as much wisdom as possible to interpret the Rule as best you can, and let the cards fall where they may.

I'm a believer in the long-run effects of karma. I really have no idea what religious denomination that makes me
Well, belief in Karma would mean that you'd fit in with the Buddhists (and probably some others).....but then you'd have to believe in reincarnation if you were going to be a Buddhist.

If you want Cliff Notes version of religion, you should check out the PBS program by Joseph Campbell: The Power of Myth . He's also got several lectures on tape and a couple of other TV series that are well worth checking out. Very interesting stuff.
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Old 02-15-2006, 08:58 AM   #164
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hawg73
I could use some kind of spiritual renaissance. That I'll admit, but since Tom and Katie are splitsville now I don't think Scientology is an option.
Tom and Katie broke up? Where has Annihilus been?

Annihilus was curious about Scientology about 2 years ago and thought he'd check it out. Keep in mind that he really knew next to nothing about it, so didn't know much other than a lot of people think that Scientologists are 'weird'.

So he bought a couple of books: 'Dianetics' and 'What is Scientology?'

Now let Annihilus start by saying that in and of themselves, these books seemed relatively harmless, if not new-ageish. They do a decent job of explaining what the movement is about.....though they leave some things out that you need to find via 'other avenues' (see below).

Then, he decided that there must be some stuff around that delved into the 'weirdness' of the Scientology movement.

And he was right. After checking out the 'Operation Clambake' website, and specifically this page on Wikipedia, he wasn't as comfortable studying up as he had been prior to finding these pages. In fact, he hasn't read much else about it since then.

This is some pretty bizarro stuff (No offense to any Scientologists out there). In fact, Annihilus would be very interested to talk with any if you're floating about reading this thread. Throw out your thoughts!
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Old 02-15-2006, 09:13 AM   #165
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born and raised catholic, with my ccd classes taught by either my mother or one of her friends, finally my last year getting ready for confirmation, I missed a few classes and was asked why, when I truthfully answered the question I was kicked out of CCD and had to wait a year to get confirmed.

the reason was the priest seemed to dislike my long hair, earrings and leather jacket back in 1980. We constantly clashed but because of who my teachers were I had to know the lesson as I was constantly asked to answer, this pissed the priest off and I would add a little extra info about the saint I was questioned on and things like that - as I said I came from a very religious home and am the black sheep because I never went to the born again stuff that the rest were into, it was left to me to choose.

Well I was asked why I refused to be on time or missed classes and basically why I didn't conform to his rule. I asked him if he wanted the truth, he said yes so told him I what I thought of him and his self righteousness, and after assuring me my answer would be accepted he booted my ass out.

that was my first reason to leave.

I have since tried to go back and just don't seem to pick the correct church I guess. when my son was born, I wanted him christened, washed of original sin and was refused by 3 churches.

I was married in vegas because my mom was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and I refused to have my wedding a wake for my mom - strike one they said, my wife was previously married and divorced so the church frowned on that - strike two, and I was not a regular mass attendee and based on that my child would not be a good candiate for being raised in the catholic church. Luckily my wife was the one pushing for the this and I was not the one on the phone or I would have driven to the church and explained a few things to the asshole.

Finally I called the church my daughter's took place and told the priest my story, he remembered my and explained that everything that I went through was BS and that if I wanted to drive to the church at that moment he would take care of the situation, we went the next time he had scheduled and my son was finally Christened at 5 months old.

I have the most problem though with the sexual offenses to Children, including a kid I knew who ended up killing himself (we found out later this was the reason), this made me question how these so called holy men work.


that is why I don't go to church any more, I do think about it at times only because of that one good priest I found to christen my son.
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