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Old 10-09-2019, 06:12 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Dutch lawmakers begin probe into Ukraine’s role in MH17 downing

Dutch lawmakers have voted to launch an investigation into Ukraine’s involvement in the downing of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17. The Netherlands has blamed Russia for the tragedy – a stance that has been criticized by Malaysia.

Dutch MP Chris van Dam, the spokesman for the investigation into the 2014 MH17 crash, announced on Tuesday that his country’s parliament had unanimously passed a resolution aimed at shedding light on Kiev’s role in the incident.He said the probe would focus on why Ukrainian airspace “was not closed” over Donetsk in the summer of 2014, which at the time saw fierce fighting between pro-Kiev forces and the breakaway Donetsk People’s Republic.

MH17 was flying from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur when it was downed over eastern Ukraine on July 17, 2014, killing all 298 people on board. A subsequent Dutch-led probe into the tragedy has been heavily criticized, particularly because Ukraine, a suspect in the incident, was part of the international investigative team.

The Dutch-led investigators listed three Russians and a Ukrainian as suspects in the incident, but their findings have been criticized by the Malaysian government.

“They aren’t really looking at the causes of the crash and who was responsible, but already they have decided that it must be Russia. We can’t accept that kind of attitude,” Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad said in an interview in July.

Russia has maintained that it had nothing to do with the aircraft’s downing. It supplied radar data and evidence from experiments to the Dutch-led experts proving that the missile that destroyed the Malaysian plane belonged to the Ukrainian military, but this data has been brushed aside.

https://www.rt.com/news/470507-mh17-...ation-ukraine/


Really? RT?

Sooooooooooooooo a news organization that is funded by the Russian government is considered a impartial source for a story that the rest of the world blames the Russian government for?

Pathetic.

Meanwhile, let's see what one of those unreliable western news organizations that are motivated by murky back room shenanigans had to say about the whole affair last Summer.

From the BBC.

Quote:
The plane crashed after being hit by a Russian-made Buk missile over eastern Ukraine, a 15-month investigation by the Dutch Safety Board (DSB) found in October 2015.

In September 2016, an international team of criminal investigators said evidence showed the Buk missile had been brought in from Russian territory and was fired from a field controlled by Russian-backed separatists.

The Dutch-led joint investigation team (JIT) concluded in May 2018 that the missile system belonged to a Russian brigade, and Australia and the Netherlands announced both were holding Russia responsible for downing the aircraft.

Then, in June 2019, the JIT named four men it alleged were involved in bringing the missile into the area in eastern Ukraine, and charged them with the murders of 298 passengers and crew. It announced that international arrest warrants had been issued.

The suspects, who prosecutors plan to try in March 2020 under Dutch law, are:
  • Igor Girkin (also known as Strelkov), a former colonel in Russia's FSB intelligence service, according to prosecutors. He was given the minister of defence title in the rebel-held eastern Ukrainian city of Donetsk
  • Sergei Dubinsky (known as Khmury), who was employed by Russia's GRU military intelligence agency, was a deputy of Mr Girkin and was in regular contact with Russia, investigators said
  • Oleg Pulatov, known as Giurza, a former soldier of GRU special forces and deputy head of the intelligence service in Donetsk, according to the JIT
  • Leonid Kharchenko, a Ukrainian national who has no military background but led a combat unit as a commander in Eastern Ukraine, prosecutors said.

Details of the charges against these men, who prosecutors said were "innocent until the contrary is proven in court", will be outlined later during criminal proceedings.

The JIT, whose investigation continues, has previously said it has a "long list" of persons of interest and has repeatedly appealed for witnesses.

Russia has denied any role.
Or NPR, AL JAZEERA, and India Today to name but three.
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Old 10-09-2019, 06:33 PM   #92
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Some of RT's articles are legit...others, not so much. It's better than CNN though.

---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------

Take all "news" outlets with a grain of salt.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:44 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post


Really? RT?

Sooooooooooooooo a news organization that is funded by the Russian government is considered a impartial source for a story that the rest of the world blames the Russian government for?

Pathetic.

Meanwhile, let's see what one of those unreliable western news organizations that are motivated by murky back room shenanigans had to say about the whole affair last Summer.

From the BBC.



Or NPR, AL JAZEERA, and India Today to name but three.
Let me get this straight....

The Dutch are NOT opening a new probe into MH17? It's fake news?

You stand by that?

EDIT: I do enjoy that you mock RT for being state media, and then post NPR, though.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 10-13-2019, 04:22 PM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Let me get this straight....

The Dutch are NOT opening a new probe into MH17? It's fake news?

You stand by that?

EDIT: I do enjoy that you mock RT for being state media, and then post NPR, though.
You know as well as I, that the issue is not what the Dutch Parliament voted, but the obfuscation that Russia is tossing about on this story.

This is what a Dutch newspaper had to say on the story.

Quote:
The Tweede Kamer, the lower house of Dutch parliament, wants a further investigation into the role Ukraine played in the MH17 disaster, focused specifically on the country not closing the airspace above eastern Ukraine despite fighting in the area. A motion filed by CDA and SP to that extent received the support of all parties that attended a debate on the matter on Tuesday evening, NOS reports.

According to CDA parliamentarian Chris van Dam, this investigation must be launched as soon as possible. "Memories are fading, data is being lost", he said, arguing that this is important for the victims' surviving relatives. "It's about insight for the bereaved, knowing if something could have been prevented, understanding what happened."

Minister Stef Blok of Foreign Affairs was reluctant about such an investigation. "We don't see any reason for it legally", he said in the Kamer. An investigation will not be easy, because it will also need Russian cooperation, he said. "It is also about their airspace." But in the end he did not object to making an inventory of the possibilities of such a fact finding investigation.

In 2015 the Dutch Safety Board ruled that Ukraine should have closed the airspace above the conflict zone in the east of the country. If that had happened, flight MH17 would have taken another route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur and would not have been shot down, saving the lives of the 298 people on board. But so far the Dutch government has taken no steps against Ukraine. Due to the international investigation into the disaster, the government considers it important to maintain good relations with the country.

The Kamer also discussed Ukraine transferring an important suspect in the MH17 investigation, Vladimir Tsemach, to Russia in the context of a prisoners exchange last month. The Kamer was astonished when Blok revealed that he hasn't discussed the matter with his Russian counterpart yet, as the exchange likely means that Tsemach will never appear in court. The Kamer assumed that the Dutch government will take this up with Russia at the highest level, but in reality only the Russian envoy in the Netherlands was called on.

Blok did not contact Moscow, or speak to his Russian counterpart at the annual UN meeting in New York last week. In the debate on Tuesday, Blok said that he was waiting for the right moment for such a meeting. And that the meeting will be held in consultation with the Public Prosecution Service and the Joint Investigation Team.
You'll note no text disputing who actually shot down the plane. Simply that had the airspace been closed, the plane would not have been in a location where it could have been shot down.

So all the extra crap the RT article has about disputing who is responsible for the plane being shot down is simply CYA crap.
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Old 10-15-2019, 01:19 PM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O_P_T View Post
You know as well as I, that the issue is not what the Dutch Parliament voted, but the obfuscation that Russia is tossing about on this story.

This is what a Dutch newspaper had to say on the story.



You'll note no text disputing who actually shot down the plane. Simply that had the airspace been closed, the plane would not have been in a location where it could have been shot down.

So all the extra crap the RT article has about disputing who is responsible for the plane being shot down is simply CYA crap.
I could just as easily point out that none of the western media reported on the evidence presented tracing the serial #'s from the missile wreckage.

This somehow makes the BBC and NPR (apparently NOT state sponsored media companies more credible?

I guess that makes CNN and MSNBC super credible in Russia gate as well, if you apply the same standards. More credible, even, since they are not directly state funded media like NPR and BBC, right?

If you wanted to be honest, you could have just admitted that you were looking for an article to debunk RT's reporting, and failed, so you decided to argue political spin rather than substance.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 10-19-2019, 06:05 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
I could just as easily point out that none of the western media reported on the evidence presented tracing the serial #'s from the missile wreckage.
If you're talking about the Russian claim, then your Googling skills are worthless and weak.

Dutch News, AP, France 24, Newsweek, Business Insider , The Sun, the Daily Mail, International Business Times
, CBC, The West Australian, Israel National News, The Independent (Ireland)
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Old 10-20-2019, 08:57 AM   #97
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The only place I get my news is PP so shuddup already
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