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Old 01-22-2019, 07:52 AM   #1
Baron Samedi
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The Science of Pseudo Science

Wasn't sure where to put this, but I think this is a growing threat to our society, the lack of understanding of science, and the injection of poisonous politics and political funding into science to dictate results and pre-determined outcomes.

Most average people do not understand the concept of scientific method, or how correlation is not causation, or accuracy in prediction and reproducability, or why these concepts are important cornerstones of real science.

Today, it is probably most rampant and recognized in "Cliamte science", but it is bleeding over into may other areas of society. As long as "authorities" state that something is so, the people simply accept it as so, and those who apply traditional scientific method to challenge the authority are ignored or denegrated.

In my view, it has gotten so bad, that we are on the verge of relegating scientific methodology itself as conspiracy theory nonsense. Since most people do not understand the concept of scientific method, it is easy to ignore it and consider it crazy conspiracy theory if it contradicts the edicts of authority.

So, I think this thread has merit going forward as we watch science and scientific method give way to political interests, and is replaced by authoritative edict and beliefs.

“Some men say the earth is flat.
Some men say the earth is round.
But if it is flat. Could Parliament make it round?
And if it round. Could the kings command flatten it?”


St Thomas More, arguing as his own lawyer for alleged treason, for refusal to acknowledge Henry VIII as the head of the Roman Catholic Church of England. For that refusal he was beheaded.
....................................................................................................

The NAS published the full report The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science: Causes, Consequences, and the Road to Reform on April 17, 2018. We invite readers to consider our findings and submit responses in the form of articles via email to contact@nas.org. These articles will be posted on the home page as well as in the Forum section below.

If you would like to donate to NAS to help us fund research projects like this one, please click here.

A reproducibility crisis afflicts a wide range of scientific and social-scientific disciplines, from epidemiology to social psychology. Improper use of statistics, arbitrary research techniques, lack of accountability, political groupthink, and a scientific culture biased toward producing positive results together have produced a critical state of affairs. Many supposedly scientific results cannot be reproduced in subsequent investigations.

This study examines the different aspects of the reproducibility crisis of modern science. The report also includes a series of policy recommendations, scientific and political, for alleviating the reproducibility crisis.


https://www.nas.org/images/documents...lityReport.pdf
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Old 01-22-2019, 07:55 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Wasn't sure where to put this, but I think this is a growing threat to our society, the lack of understanding of science, and the injection of poisonous politics and political funding into science to dictate results and pre-determined outcomes.

Most average people do not understand the concept of scientific method, or how correlation is not causation, or accuracy in prediction and reproducability, or why these concepts are important cornerstones of real science.

Today, it is probably most rampant and recognized in "Cliamte science", but it is bleeding over into may other areas of society. As long as "authorities" state that something is so, the people simply accept it as so, and those who apply traditional scientific method to challenge the authority are ignored or denegrated.

In my view, it has gotten so bad, that we are on the verge of relegating scientific methodology itself as conspiracy theory nonsense. Since most people do not understand the concept of scientific method, it is easy to ignore it and consider it crazy conspiracy theory if it contradicts the edicts of authority.

So, I think this thread has merit going forward as we watch science and scientific method give way to political interests, and is replaced by authoritative edict and beliefs.

“Some men say the earth is flat.
Some men say the earth is round.
But if it is flat. Could Parliament make it round?
And if it round. Could the kings command flatten it?”


St Thomas More, arguing as his own lawyer for alleged treason, for refusal to acknowledge Henry VIII as the head of the Roman Catholic Church of England. For that refusal he was beheaded.
....................................................................................................

The NAS published the full report The Irreproducibility Crisis of Modern Science: Causes, Consequences, and the Road to Reform on April 17, 2018. We invite readers to consider our findings and submit responses in the form of articles via email to contact@nas.org. These articles will be posted on the home page as well as in the Forum section below.

If you would like to donate to NAS to help us fund research projects like this one, please click here.

A reproducibility crisis afflicts a wide range of scientific and social-scientific disciplines, from epidemiology to social psychology. Improper use of statistics, arbitrary research techniques, lack of accountability, political groupthink, and a scientific culture biased toward producing positive results together have produced a critical state of affairs. Many supposedly scientific results cannot be reproduced in subsequent investigations.

This study examines the different aspects of the reproducibility crisis of modern science. The report also includes a series of policy recommendations, scientific and political, for alleviating the reproducibility crisis.


https://www.nas.org/images/documents...lityReport.pdf
+1 I've been fighting on this hill hill since the 80s against climatologists etc.
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Old 01-25-2019, 08:04 AM   #3
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Baron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that goodBaron Samedi should plot to take over the world, they're that good
When Science Isn't Science
01/24/2019 Jason Morgan

The Earth’s climate is extraordinarily complex. Unlike dinosaur fossils or organic chemistry or primate behavior, climate is always in flux, with countless factors influencing one another in an endless unfolding of diachronic stochastics. Given this complexity, one might presume that scientists who study planetary climate would be endowed with exceptional patience, scholarly integrity, and intellectual humility. After all, it takes a long time to learn even a little bit about such an intricate system, so part of the job description of climate scientist would seem to be acknowledging that there is only so much that is known about the 1.09 x 1044 or so molecules swirling about in the atmosphere. Even more complex than all that, though, is navigating the public’s interest in the field. Climate is contentious, and a climate scientist will have to keep his cool, sticking to the facts amidst even the most heated rhetorical environments.

And yet, this is precisely not how a startling number of climate scientists choose to behave. Former head of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) Goddard Institute for Space Studies James Hansen, for example, once made the rather alarming claim that “it will soon be impossible to avoid climate change with far-ranging undesirable consequences. We have reached a critical tipping point. […] We have at most ten years—not ten years to decide upon action, but ten years to alter fundamentally the trajectory of global greenhouse emissions.”1 And what might happen if the Earth warmed by the five degrees Hansen was warning about? Hansen tells us in detail.

The last time that the Earth was five degrees warmer was three million years ago, when sea level was about eighty feet higher. Eighty feet! In that case, the United States would lose most East Coast cities: Boston, New York, Philadelphia, Washington, and Miami; indeed, practically the entire state of Florida would be under water. Fifty million people in the US live below that sea level. Other places would fare worse. China would have 250 million displaced persons. Bangladesh would produce 120 million refugees, practically the entire nation. India would lose the land of 150 million people.

Rather discomfiting for Dr. Hansen, who thought we had “at most […] ten years to alter fundamentally the trajectory of global greenhouse emissions,” those blood-curdling visions of hundreds of millions of drowning urbanites have now gone fully a dozen years without coming to pass.

Not to be dissuaded from his task—and traipsing rather lightly past the Climategate scandal, in which University of East Anglia scientists were caught in flagrante delicto discussing the doctoring of data to match the received narrative on anthropogenic climate change—Hansen next tried to set a new tone for the climate Armageddonists. The Earth’s failure to implode on cue led Hansen and others to blame the system instead. “The democratic process doesn’t quite seem to be working,” he said in 2009, for example (The Guardian, 2009). Naomi Klein, author of This Changes Everything: Capitalism vs. The Climate (2014), connected the dots between Hansen’s rantings and full-bore income redistribution, hyping the “People’s Recovery,” which attempted to shunt tax dollars into communities experimenting in “nonextractive living” and “new democratic processes”:

Any attempt to rise to the climate challenge will be fruitless unless it is understood as part of a much broader battle of world-views, a process of rebuilding and reinventing the very idea of the collective, the communal, the commons, the civil, and the civic after so many decades of attack and neglect.

It would be hard to beat this orchestral crescendo of embarrassments to real scientific inquiry, this twisting of science into balloon animals shaped like either Chicken Little or Karl Marx. But in The Best American Science and Nature Writing 2017, series editor Tim Folger gives it a try. In large measure, he succeeds, calling into question whether “climate science” has not perhaps become an oxymoron.

First, a word about the 2017 iteration of the series. The editor for that year, Hope Jahren (the author of Lab Girl (2016)), has assembled a rather puzzling collection of genuinely interesting and valuable pieces, interspersed with tendentious politically-correct huff-puffing and special pleading. To take the good entries first, Robert Draper’s essay (reprinted from National Geographic), “The Battle for Virunga,” is a tightly-written piece on the intersection of economics, politics, and wildlife in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. David Epstein’s ProPublica essay, “The DIY Scientist, the Olympian, and the Mutated Gene,” tells the richly human story of Jill Viles, a muscular dystrophy patient whose extraordinary etiological insights helped track down important genetic information about lipodystrophy. And Ann Finkbeiner’s “Inside the Breakthrough Starshot Mission to Alpha Centauri,” taken from Scientific American, is a character-driven look at how new space technologies travel down the R&D pipeline. There are other fine essays in this volume, too: Tom Philpott’s on the political economy of chicken farm antibiotics, Kim Tingley’s on Polynesian navigation techniques, and Christopher Solomon’s well-researched look at Bureau of Land Management machinations in the American West.

Unfortunately, Jahren’s editorial heuristic, saturated in identity politics, leads her in the very unscientific direction of putting the scientist ahead of the science. This is especially odd, given that the writers who take the Cartesian plunge and delve into innerspace are forced to admit to having no idea who they are. Listless atheism marks Omar Mouallem’s “Dark Science,” for example. Ostensibly writing about light pollution and the efforts to combat it, Mouallem lets slip, “I once found myself in the middle of a field staring at a glistening sky. Had I still believed in him, I’d say it looked like God sneezed glitter.” Azeen Ghorayshi’s “He Fell in Love with His Grad Student—Then Fired Her for It” is the Glenn Close-esque tale of Christian Ott, a Caltech astrophysics professor who unburdens himself to his protégé about his deep-seated insecurities while publishing dozens of poems about her online. Sally Davies’ “The Physics Pioneer Who Walked Away from It All” tells us about physicist Fotini Markopoulou, who avers that “between the truth of the physical world and a physics theory, there’s humans. Of course, nothing happens there, because removing the person is the whole point of training as a scientist.” And then there is Michael Regnier’s heartbreaking true story of George Price, the man who literally did just that: removed himself, by killing himself in the name of the scientific study of altruism (“The Man Who Gave Himself Away”).

But the real editorial knifepoint of this book is its global warming agenda. Climate change crops up everywhere, from essays on Greenland (“A Song of Ice”) to Alaska (“The New Harpoon”). However, the pièce de résistance is Nathaniel Rich’s “The Invisible Catastrophe,” reprinted from The New York Times Magazine. This is passive-aggressiveness cranked up to eleven. Here, Rich manages to take a story about a methane leak in Aliso Canyon, outside Los Angeles, and turn it into a schadenfreude smorgasbord, with Rich secretly reveling in the fact that the wealthy residents of Porter Ranch—many of whom are Republicans—are finally getting a taste of their own medicine by being sickened by greenhouse gases.

But even this essay pales in comparison with Folger’s truly unhinged Foreword. Here, we find the favorite trope of the unscientific, namely, that everyone with whom one disagrees is a Nazi. Yes, a National Socialist. And not just any kind of National Socialist, but active, core members of the Party. To be more specific, bookburning Nazis. Here’s Folger:

Modern cosmology was born in Germany a century ago, and within two decades of its birth it almost died there. When Albert Einstein published his general theory of relativity in November 1915, it’s doubtful he could have imagined how profoundly deranged his country would become. On May 10, 1933—the same year Einstein left Germany forever—mobs of young Nazis and their supporters across Germany were feeding bonfires with his papers, along with works by Sigmund Freud, Thomas Mann, Bertolt Brecht, Erich Maria Remarque, and others supposedly contaminated with undeutschen Geist—un-German spirit. More than 25,000 books burned on that day, including those of the 19th-century Jewish poet and playwright Heinrich Heine, who had once written, “Where they burn books, they will also ultimately burn people. […]”

Where is Folger going with all this? Who are the modern-day Nazis in our midst? Why, climate skeptics and Trump supporters, of course:

One measure of the health of any modern society must be the degree to which it supports its scientists. A few days before I started to write this foreword, hundreds of thousands of people in dozens of cities across the country participated in the March for Science. It was an event at once inspiring and worrisome: inspiring because so many took a stand for rationalism—a public rebuke to the nation’s leaders that couldn’t be more different from the German book burnings of the 1930s; worrisome because who would have thought that in the 21st century scientists and citizens would feel the need to gather in support of something so self-evidently valuable as unfettered scientific research?

Yet the march was necessary, urgently so. Scientists at more than a dozen federal agencies have launched rogue Twitter feeds to counter the policies of a frighteningly uninformed president who once tweeted that “global warming was created by and for the Chinese.” We live at a pivotal moment in history[; …] climate change threatens not just “the environment” but civilization itself.


Now, to be fair to Folger, he is hardly the only “scientist” to have had a Hitler-themed meltdown over thermometer readings in Queen Maud Land. We are fallen creatures, and we all let our passions get the better of us from time to time. Scientists are people too, and when they get caught rigging the deck so that every card comes up the Ace of Hockey Sticks, they are apt to lash out at the whistleblowers just like anyone else. If anything, in his extremism Folger is simply following in the footsteps of his fellow “earth scientists.” Like Jacques Cousteau, for instance, who once opined that “world population must be stabilized and to do that we must eliminate 350,000 people per day.”

But there is much more to Folger’s brand of meteorological trolling than there might first appear. For example, there is the revealing research of William N. Butos and Thomas J. McQuade, whose 2015 paper on boom-and-bust cycles in the global warming industry shows the deep intertwinings of “scientific” research and the political economy. From the mid 1990s, global warming became a fashionable topic. From that point, governments increasingly began funding global warming-themed research to the exclusion of other projects. The much-touted “consensus” on global warming turns out to be little more than an illusion created by preferential funding by Washington and foregrounding by the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). As Butos and McQuade point out, science is supposed to be about hypotheses and experiments, but scientists turn out to be as susceptible to chicanery as politicians are once money for research starts to change hands.

Would that that were all. For what lies beneath even this fen of politicking under the rent veil of scientific disinterest is a deep uneasiness, felt most acutely by scientists themselves, over the true nature of their “scientific” enterprise. Folger is driven to accuse his critics of Nazism because he is afraid to confront their arguments head on. Why? Could it not be because of the epistemological bankruptcy of what passes as science?

Now, before the QJAE offices are deluged with hate mail, let me state that I am not a flat earther. I fully accept that pterodactyls and diplodocuses and trilobites were real, that the universe is billions of years old, that the earth goes around the sun, and that electricity is electrons, not voodoo. I also agree that carbon dioxide, methane, water vapor, ozone, and other substances are greenhouse gases, and that reducing the concentration of these gases in the atmosphere will reduce the greenhouse effect that they cause. I watched Mr. Wizard, too, and I am not here to dispute whether force equals mass times acceleration, or whether energy equals matter times the speed of light squared.

No, the claim I make here is much more serious than the denial of these facts would be. I am saying, in short, that scientists today, with rare exceptions, do not do science at all. They do sociology. As Thomas Kuhn pointed out in The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962), for instance, science lurches and stalls through a series of paradigm shifts, with the behavior of scientists themselves being the real dark matter moving research and consensus. And Karl Popper, were he alive today, might be interested in applying the falsifiability criterion to wild speculations such as Hansen’s and Folger’s. The line between science and pseudoscience might lie much closer to the latter than many in the general public suspect.

I began this review by arguing that climate is complex. What we need, then, is a science capable of investigating it, and real scientists, for a change, who can rise above herd behavior and try to figure out exactly what is going on with all of those 1.09 x 1044 molecules in our atmosphere. What we do not need are any more quacks or snake oil salesmen who see science as a bandwagon and scientists as responsible for keeping everyone on board. On that note, Friedrich Hayek’s The Counter-Revolution of Science: Studies in the Abuse of Reason (1952) would be a good place to start for learning the key difference between science and scientism, or the ill-starred attempt to bend science towards less noble ends than truth. Perhaps the next edition of The Best American Science and Nature Writing will heed some of Hayek’s sound advice and feature much more writing of a scientific nature. But at the very least, let us hope that it has much fewer comparisons of honest dissenters—those who truly want empirical facts and dispassionate interpretations—to bookburning Nazis.

https://mises.org/wire/when-science-isnt-science
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 01-25-2019, 11:28 AM   #4
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Does bring the Welles report to mind, doesn't it.



Cheers
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Old 01-25-2019, 03:46 PM   #5
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Speaking of pseudo sciences....possibly the Godfather of pseudo science, the APA, has determined that masculinity is harmful....one might even say "toxic"...

The main thrust of the subsequent research is that traditional masculinity—marked by stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression—is, on the whole, harmful.

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner.aspx

Yup.

If you're a man...you can't hgelp that...you were born that way....but if you act like a man, you are a problem, and need to sign up for our re-education facilities.

Oh, and please read and obey all the signs, these are safe zones. No guns, no knives, no soda, no junk food, no speaking in proper english, no using pronouns, no pants (This does NOT mean naked, you will wear a smock, like everyone else), and definitely no facial hair! You got that?

Wait, there are more signs on the other side....no manspreading, no scratching your balls, no laughing at farts or fart jokes.
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 01-25-2019, 04:49 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Speaking of pseudo sciences....possibly the Godfather of pseudo science, the APA, has determined that masculinity is harmful....one might even say "toxic"...

The main thrust of the subsequent research is that traditional masculinity—marked by stoicism, competitiveness, dominance and aggression—is, on the whole, harmful.

https://www.apa.org/monitor/2019/01/ce-corner.aspx
Reading this makes me want to race you to whomever is responsible for this report, throw them down, teabag them and then punch them in the throat, but in such a way that masks my feelings.

Last edited by IU_Knightmare; 01-25-2019 at 05:00 PM..
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:29 AM   #7
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Reading this makes me want to race you to whomever is responsible for this report, throw them down, teabag them and then punch them in the throat, but in such a way that masks my feelings.
You haven't been taking your government mandated estrogen pills.

Quell that fire, boy!
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Old 01-26-2019, 09:36 AM   #8
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you haven't been taking your government mandated estrogen pills. :lecture:

Quell that fire, boy!
rofl
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Old 01-27-2019, 02:15 PM   #9
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You haven't been taking your government mandated estrogen pills.

Quell that fire, boy!
They put soy in most every processed food imaginable...
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Old 03-06-2019, 06:26 PM   #10
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Very interesting and informative video about the methods of scientific fraud....where the data is accurate, but interpretation of it can create fake science.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LfHEuWaPh9Q" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 10-04-2019, 06:51 AM   #11
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Haven't posted any Russian Fake News Propaganda in awhile. Gotta keep collecting those Putin Paychecks...

Meat is back on the menu, & scientists who want to ban cows for the sake of the planet are outraged

A new study has found slim to nonexistent evidence for apocalyptic warnings about red meat consumption causing cancer, and the scientific establishment hell-bent on turning humanity vegan for environment’s sake is now outraged.

A team of 14 researchers from seven countries looked at over 130 articles and a dozen randomized trials, concluding that evidence linking the consumption of red and processed meat to cancer, heart disease, and mortality was of low quality and unreliable. Their findings were published in the Annals of Internal Medicine, a publication of the American College of Physicians, last week – to howls of protest from the scientific and nutritional establishment.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">One of the largest scientific evaluations ever attempted cancels the red alert concerning red meat, finding it was based on bad data. <a href="https://t.co/5K0SAJ9lv2">https://t.co/5K0SAJ9lv2</a> <a href="https://t.co/qbGCLtLtHu">pic.twitter.com/qbGCLtLtHu</a></p>&mdash; Rolf Degen (@DegenRolf) <a href="https://twitter.com/DegenRolf/status/1178891492284342272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 1, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
This report has layers of flaws and is the most egregious abuse of evidence that I have ever seen,” declared Walter Willett, professor of epidemiology and nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health.

Harsh words, to be sure, especially since one of the study’s authors is Gordon Guyatt, a professor of medicine at McMaster University in Canada and one of the creators of GRADE, a strict methodology for assessing the certainty of scientific evidence.

Guyatt said the reactions to the study are approaching levels of what he would call “hysteria.”

“If you’re the emperor, and somebody points out that you haven’t any clothes, this is not going to be a very appealing situation,” he said. “It’s very threatening, and people are defending their territory.”

Indeed, Willett is a leading member of the EAT-Lancet Commission, which advocates for a plant-based diet for the sake of the environment – and Harvard is the institution behind the infamous “food pyramid,” used for decades by the US government to advise its citizens to eat less meat and fat in favor of grains and carbohydrates.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Healthy Eating Pyramid:The Nutrition Source | Harvard School of Public Health <a href="http://t.co/NORsHPxgbQ">http://t.co/NORsHPxgbQ</a> via <a href="https://twitter.com/HarvardHSPH?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@HarvardHSPH</a> <a href="http://t.co/liwGrhvISL">pic.twitter.com/liwGrhvISL</a></p>&mdash; healthypath (@healthypathco) <a href="https://twitter.com/healthypathco/status/421842750783254528?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 11, 2014</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Those guidelines have been a smashing success – in driving up the rates of obesity and diabetes, that is. If you want to see a real “hockey stick” graph, look at the percentage of overweight Americans skyrocket since 1980, when the US government began promoting the Harvard food pyramid.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">2/19 For nearly five years, there has been a growing chorus of scientists, doctors, patients, policy makers, journalists &amp; public health experts questioning the quality of official (and unofficial) diet/nutrition advice against the backdrop of an escalating public health crisis. <a href="https://t.co/WUoPLdqBxj">pic.twitter.com/WUoPLdqBxj</a></p>&mdash; Erica Hauver (@EricaHauver) <a href="https://twitter.com/EricaHauver/status/1179608237483724802?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 3, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
The study also comes at the worst possible time for the scientific establishment, right amid its global crusade against farming and ranching in the name of saving the planet. One after another, scientists have argued that raising cattle destroys forests and releases carbon, so humanity must change its way of eating to focus on vegetables and insects – by force, if need be.

Some governments have already imposed a “meat tax” on behalf of the environment, and there has even been talk of outlawing meat for promoting “ecocide” and being as dangerous to public health as smoking.

No surprise, then, that Harvard has attacked the study as ignoring the environmental impact of meat, because “climate change and environmental degradation have serious effects on human health” and are therefore “important to consider when making recommendations.”

One California public health official echoed the same line of reasoning in a comment to the Annals of Internal Medicine, arguing the research shouldn’t have been written, let alone published, “without concern for the environmental effects of food choices.”

“Please let us, as physicians, wake up to the fact, that our climate crisis poses the most profound risk to individuals and public health and that we have a responsibility in guiding the public on how to confront this threat: in part, with food choices,” wrote Henning Ansor of Santa Barbara.

In other words, it doesn’t matter if the science is solid, the higher moral calling demands that the scientists lie – or stay silent – in the name of Mother Earth? That’s not how science works. That’s not how any of this works.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/bUyakInYhas" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

https://www.rt.com/news/470189-meat-...d-environment/
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Who is this self-important instigating douche-bag, anyway?
Dude, Baron has been a valued member of this forum for quite some time.
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Old 10-04-2019, 11:26 AM   #12
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Isn't this a Phil Collins 's song?
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Old 10-04-2019, 12:09 PM   #13
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Speaking of Phil Collins, I only recently found out that Foie Gras is a product of animal cruelty, which is funny to me because I tried it for the first time a few years ago and hated it, the same way I hate veal.

It's almost like I can taste torture. It's easy for me to boycott these things because I think they suck, anyway.
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Old 10-04-2019, 12:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Speaking of Phil Collins, I only recently found out that Foie Gras is a product of animal cruelty, which is funny to me because I tried it for the first time a few years ago and hated it, the same way I hate veal.

It's almost like I can taste torture. It's easy for me to boycott these things because I think they suck, anyway.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/...de-in-the-air/
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Old 10-05-2019, 08:25 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Baron Samedi View Post
Speaking of Phil Collins, I only recently found out that Foie Gras is a product of animal cruelty, which is funny to me because I tried it for the first time a few years ago and hated it, the same way I hate veal.

It's almost like I can taste torture. It's easy for me to boycott these things because I think they suck, anyway.
Veal's ok but can easily live without it. Love foie gras but can't often afford it.

Chicken Liver Pate is where I usually end up.

Cheers
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