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Old 03-15-2017, 04:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by deec77 View Post
Ok take the ifs out then. The point remains.

There are only 3 possibilities for that transcript to exist and be in possession of the Obama Administration and 2 are illegal. Yates herself claims she shared the transcript with Trump's Attorney and Trump ignored it. Her words I gave them the transcript and went over it with them explaining the real possibility of blackmail. The existence of the transcript without a warrant is evidence they had surveillance on the campaign. So either the intelligence agencies produce that warrant or the transcripts were illegally obtain and use against a US citizen. Now don't get me wrong I'm glad Flynn resigned but..... we have laws and protections granted in the constitution.
~Dee~
They were likely surveilling the Russians, suspected by everyone in Intellignece not sucking on their nuts ala the Trump administration of having interfered in our electoral process.

They likely picked up Flynn via that route.

Regardless, Flynn and the Trump team lied about the interactions. Why? I'm sure for no reason, whatsoever.

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Why would you want it to fade away and it should absolutely be investigated. With all the leaks I hope they do find the person or persons involved.
~Dee~
Because it is bullshit (IMO). Trump spurted out some stupid shit he 'heard' and threw it out there (just the latest in a long long list). It takes eyes off the ball (the ball right now is Trumpcare and investigations into Russia collusions). However, this time the hornets nest is stirred, and not just on the Dem's side. Some on the GOP are sick of this behavior.

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As for one of his audience. Im not, but I do want to get to the bottom of this. To date there is zero evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, after 8 months of investigating. It's not illegal to speak to ambassadors of a foreign country Russia included.
~Dee~
Ah, but this is incorrect.
Trump's team has lied, and continues to lie about Russian contacts.
Flynn. Sessions. Carter. Manafort.
You can say that there's no crime against (non under-oath) lying. (Sessions may have lied about it under oath, in fact, in his confirmation). WHY keep doing it?
Factor in the provision entered into the GOP platform at the convention by Manafort assisting Russia with the re-annexation of Ukraine, the established interference in our election, and the multiple contacts (with attendant lies), and that is a ton of circumstantial evidence.

And we don't know what concrete evidence there might be- Graham and Whitehouse were trying to check with the FBI just today to make sure that when they start subpoenaing documents that they wouldn't step on a possible criminal investigation.

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As for one of his audience. Im not, but I do want to get to the bottom of this. To date there is zero evidence of any collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians, after 8 months of investigating. It's not illegal to speak to ambassadors of a foreign country Russia included.

So if you feel there is no evidence of surveillance by the Obama Administration why not investigate it you've got nothing to lose. It's not his job to back it up, if it's part of an investigation he should absolutely not interfere. Then everyone is going to be yelling he colluded with the intelligence community.

No shiny objects but a lot of stuff that really needs looking into on both sides.

~Dee~
'Getting to the bottom of this,' until last Saturday's Tweetstorm, had nothing whatsoever to do with Obama. That was a bolt from the blue, completely without evidence, and serves nothing but to buy Trump a little time out of hot water. It is a total shiny object because it introduced something other than Trump and his admin/campaign to focus on.

However, this is fine. Trump has jacked the stakes up so high that it will be looked into.

I continue to believe that this is not what he really wanted, but it's too late now.



Also, if it turns out that Obama acted illegally- he should be held accountable.
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:21 PM   #17
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The obvious problem is that you have a hot headed president that makes accusations like this without being able to back them. He might be eventually, but he wasn't when he made them. This isn't supposed to be a reality show, or is it?
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:27 PM   #18
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They surveille everyone.

It amazes me that people don't grasp this yet. It's like they are stuck in 70's police shows.

ALL communications are recorded and stored if they are done electronically, over the internet or wireless.

The only relevant question is whether they mined that data on a particular individual/
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:12 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by benhamean View Post
They were likely surveilling the Russians, suspected by everyone in Intellignece not sucking on their nuts ala the Trump administration of having interfered in our electoral process.

They likely picked up Flynn via that route.

Regardless, Flynn and the Trump team lied about the interactions. Why? I'm sure for no reason, whatsoever.


Because it is bullshit (IMO). Trump spurted out some stupid shit he 'heard' and threw it out there (just the latest in a long long list). It takes eyes off the ball (the ball right now is Trumpcare and investigations into Russia collusions). However, this time the hornets nest is stirred, and not just on the Dem's side. Some on the GOP are sick of this behavior.


Ah, but this is incorrect.
Trump's team has lied, and continues to lie about Russian contacts.
Flynn. Sessions. Carter. Manafort.
You can say that there's no crime against (non under-oath) lying. (Sessions may have lied about it under oath, in fact, in his confirmation). WHY keep doing it?
Factor in the provision entered into the GOP platform at the convention by Manafort assisting Russia with the re-annexation of Ukraine, the established interference in our election, and the multiple contacts (with attendant lies), and that is a ton of circumstantial evidence.

And we don't know what concrete evidence there might be- Graham and Whitehouse were trying to check with the FBI just today to make sure that when they start subpoenaing documents that they wouldn't step on a possible criminal investigation.


'Getting to the bottom of this,' until last Saturday's Tweetstorm, had nothing whatsoever to do with Obama. That was a bolt from the blue, completely without evidence, and serves nothing but to buy Trump a little time out of hot water. It is a total shiny object because it introduced something other than Trump and his admin/campaign to focus on.

However, this is fine. Trump has jacked the stakes up so high that it will be looked into.

I continue to believe that this is not what he really wanted, but it's too late now.



Also, if it turns out that Obama acted illegally- he should be held accountable.
What part of it's illegal to intercept and use information against a US citizen during a foreign surveillance warrant are you not getting. You can't use the information against a US citizen period end of discussion we have due process. The transcript is null and void and can't ever be used in a court of law.

Where do you think all the leaks were coming from? Obama asked for an investigation regarding the "Russian" hacking. The Leaks have been part of this process for a while now.

Did Sessions lie or answer the question as posed? I've work in the courts for a very long time as an expert witness. I have had it drilled into my head only answer the question that was asked and never volunteer additional information.

I want to know what they found, and let the chips fall where they may. The Dems have been screaming for an investigation give it to them I'm quite comfortable with any facts that may come out.

This has been going on for 8 long months now and we know nothing and no criminal charges have been filed against anyone. Even Obama said there was no collusion, lets just lay everything on the table. Stop all these insane accusation on both sides once and for all and get on with things that are more important.

Im not going to lie the longer the Dems and the media cry wolf the more I want a resolution. I warned you about Hillary's deplorable comment and it was going to come back and bite you in the butt so is this unless it's settled once and for all.

Obama never going to be charged with anything he's to smart to leave his finger prints on anything

~Dee~
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Old 03-15-2017, 05:21 PM   #20
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Didn't use anything against Flynn. They warned Trump he might have a problem, and Trump ignored that...Letting his underlings lie (Inc Pence) until they got caught. Then TRUMP fired him.

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Old 03-15-2017, 05:21 PM   #21
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Didn't use anything against Flynn. They warned Trump he might have a problem, and Trump ignored that...Letting his underlings lie (Inc Pence) until they got caught. Then TRUMP fired him.

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..Or 'asked for his resignation', rather...



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Old 03-15-2017, 05:42 PM   #22
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Because why? What exactly did he do besides mislead Pence? Again Im glad Flynn is gone because he did mislead Pence. Yates said it might be cause for blackmail others have said it was a nothing burger.

You haven't answered my question which is how they got that info to the press, a felony?

~Dee~
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:26 PM   #23
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Didn't use anything against Flynn. They warned Trump he might have a problem, and Trump ignored that...Letting his underlings lie (Inc Pence) until they got caught. Then TRUMP fired him.

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Yes they did there should have been no transcript none nada zilch it was an illegal document. The US citizen on the other end of the of the conversation can not by law be identified, in anyway. Think of the can of worms you're willing to open.

~Dee~

Oops some on the Hill agree with me
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/15/politi...ing/index.html

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Old 03-15-2017, 08:41 PM   #24
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Because why? What exactly did he do besides mislead Pence? Again Im glad Flynn is gone because he did mislead Pence. Yates said it might be cause for blackmail others have said it was a nothing burger.

You haven't answered my question which is how they got that info to the press, a felony?

~Dee~
It is well proven that many of our liberal friends here on the planet struggle with answering questions when honesty would trip up thier ideology.

I wouldn't hold my breath.
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Old 03-16-2017, 08:25 AM   #25
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I am starting to see where this "wiretap" thing is headed.

Before the election there were numerous reports about a server in Trump Tower that was connected to a Russian server. The implication at the time was that it had been hacked. Many of the articles indicated that the activity on this server was being monitored by intelligence agencies.

This is going to be the "wiretapp" we've been hearing so much about.

Whether this is a planned distraction or an undisciplined reaction to a hyperactive conservative blogger is really up to you to decide. I am choosing for now to assume that the POTUS is neither unbalanced nor stupid, so I'm betting on purposeful distraction.

As for Flynn, the fact he was acting as an undisclosed foreign agent for Turkey should have been disqualifying. Lying about talking the the Russian Ambassador is just stupid, it would have been wiser to say "of course we talked, exchanging pleasantries and developing relationships is important during a transition. The knee jerk reaction looks like the actions of a guilty man. Sessions had the same problem. A blanket "never talked to him" looks bad when you could have said, "I my role as Senator I have met with the ambassador a few times, he's a nice guy"

As for the leaks, yeah your not supposed to do that, but the next day there are no leaks will be the first day.
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:10 AM   #26
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Sessions' comment wasn't a "blanket", it was qualified before he said it, and in the context of the question.

I will say that it was murky and could have been stated better, for sure, and it could be interpreted many ways, for sure.

But I think we should be more concerned with whether there is factually anything nefarious or criminal going on, and less concerned with playing semantic "Gotcha!".
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:54 AM   #27
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Sessions' comment wasn't a "blanket", it was qualified before he said it, and in the context of the question.

I will say that it was murky and could have been stated better, for sure, and it could be interpreted many ways, for sure.

But I think we should be more concerned with whether there is factually anything nefarious or criminal going on, and less concerned with playing semantic "Gotcha!".
The context of the question was this- as AG, if you were called on to investigate the Trump campaign's relationship with Russia, what would you do?

Sessions' answer was - well, I was a Trump surrogate, and I never talked with any Russians.

Stupid and revealing answer to a question not asked.

The FBI knows whether there is anything criminal suspected, and they are being pretty cagey about it (leading to stronger and stronger supposition that there is a criminal investigation going on).
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Old 03-16-2017, 09:58 AM   #28
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Because why? What exactly did he do besides mislead Pence? Again Im glad Flynn is gone because he did mislead Pence. Yates said it might be cause for blackmail others have said it was a nothing burger.

You haven't answered my question which is how they got that info to the press, a felony?

~Dee~
Ask Trump. He was the one who jettisoned Flynn.

I do not know how it got into the press. Do you, or does anyone?
Paranoid tweet? That seems a popular method for dissemination these days.
Russian hack?
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:20 AM   #29
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The context of the question was this- as AG, if you were called on to investigate the Trump campaign's relationship with Russia, what would you do?

Sessions' answer was - well, I was a Trump surrogate, and I never talked with any Russians.

Stupid and revealing answer to a question not asked.

The FBI knows whether there is anything criminal suspected, and they are being pretty cagey about it (leading to stronger and stronger supposition that there is a criminal investigation going on).
I thought Sessions said, I have been called a Trump surrogate a couple of times, or words to that effect. It may be a small difference, but a difference just the same, if so.
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Old 03-16-2017, 10:23 AM   #30
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I thought Sessions said, I have been called a Trump surrogate a couple of times, or words to that effect. It may be a small difference, but a difference just the same, if so.
Could be.
The main point was that he was asked what he'd do as AG if a Trump-Russia investigation ever came about.

He injected his personal interactions with Russians into the answer (for some reason).
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