Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums and Message Boards

Burn, baby burn....

Baron Samedi — Wed, 08 Sep 2010 12:12:34 GMT

This should be interesting.

I am not in favor of it, but I see it as a Free Speech issue. I don;t like people who burn the flag, either....but I find it interesting that the pro-flag burning crowd are the same ones that want this guy arrested....at least in my circle.

Bunch of hypocrites.

It's the same thing...either it is free speech or it isn't.

Rev. Terry Jones: Quran Burning "Very Necessary"
Church Leader Says Radical Muslims' Attempt to Impose Islamic Law in U.S. Warrants Atypical Christian "Warning"

The Florida pastor at the center of a small congregation and a massive international outcry over plans to burn dozens of Muslim holy books on the anniversary of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks told CBS News Wednesday morning his intentions had not changed.

"As of right now, we feel that this message is that important. We are still determined to do it, yes," Rev. Terry Jones told "Early Show" co-anchor Harry Smith.

Despite admitting to CBS in an interview a day earlier that his actions would almost certainly offend all the world's Muslims, Jones insisted Wednesday morning that his "warning" was "geared towards radical Islam," followers of which he claimed were trying to gain control and impose Muslim law in the United States.

"We see its influence around the world. We are sending a message to them that we don't want them to do as they appear to be doing in
Europe," Jones told CBS. "We want them to know if they're in America, they need to obey our law and constitution and not slowly push their agenda upon us."

Jones claims Islamic fundamentalism is far more widespread among America's Muslim population than believed or acknowledged by officials. He cited as an example an incident he claims took place Tuesday, in which a Muslim woman came onto his church's property and threatened him.

Jones, whose small church in Gainesville has a regular attendance of less than 100 people, has refused to give in to pressure from the White House, the State Department, the Attorney General and America's top commander in Afghanistan.

Attorney General Eric Holder was the most recent member of the Obama administration to lash out at the Quran burning plans, reportedly calling them idiotic and dangerous in a private meeting with religious leaders on Tuesday.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6845032.shtml

Reminder: Sons of Anarchy season starts tonight

Peachhead — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 21:29:39 GMT

Just a reminder because many here like the show. Sons of Anarchy is on tonight at 10 (ET) on the FX Network.

Fantasy Football Team Names

3 Point Stan — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:29:43 GMT

I normally try to be as original as possible (Last year my team was called "First Round Draft Prick") but there was just absolutely no way I could not go with Cromartie's Kids for the up-coming campaign.

What are you calling yourselves this year or what names have you seen that make you LOL.

"Brees Nuts" was another one I heard that I thought was pretty funny.

Random FOOTBALL Thoughts That Don't Warrant Full Threads

JD10367 — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:17:52 GMT

This idea just came to me, watching "NFL Live".

I'll start it off: Minnesota... shut the f**k up about how the Saints were intending to injure Lord Farvrhrruh. You sound like idiots. You're going into the house of the current Super Bowl champions, who have a better team than you, and you're going in with your 88-year-old QB who is already gimpy. So what do you do? PISS THEM OFF. "Brilliant!"

Super Bowl Predicitions 2011

Ray Crittenden — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 18:12:27 GMT

I looked quickly and didn't find a thread on this, so here it goes...

AFC East: Pats
AFC North: Ravens
AFC South: Colts
AFC West: Chargers
Wild Card: Jets
Wild Card: Dolphins

AFCCG: Pats over Ravens

NFC East: Giants
NFC North: Packers
NFC South: Saints
NFC West: 49ers
Wild Card: Vikings
Wild Card: Cowboys

NFCCG: Packers over Saints

Super Bowl: Pats over Packers :spaghetti:

I'm surprised no one died...

sonsofkraftybob — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:45:58 GMT

:bump::grovel::bump:

Were to watch opener in Denver?

yppak — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:26:56 GMT

So I have to be in Denver this weekend on a business trip, not happy about it, but have to go, anyone recommend a decent place to watch the game on Sunday in Denver?? The Broncos have a game at 1 too, so would like to find a place (other than my hotel room) that will have the Pats game on.

Expectations

Oswlek — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:55:26 GMT

With all the uncertainty surrounding the Patriots, I thought it would be interesting to look back at performance trends over the past few years. This is going to be pretty long, but I hope it will be informative.

The Patriots will have a top 10 scoring offense in 2010.

No matter how you feel about the youth movement on defense, this statement is about as close to fact as a prediction can be. The last time they ended the season out of the top 10 was their 12 place finish in 2003. They didn't drop out in 2006 when Reche was the leading receiver, nor in 2009 when the guys were all banged up and ineffective. Hell, they still finished 8th in points scored in 2008 without TFB!

So, taking it is a given that the Patriots will finish with a top 10 offense, I set out to see how top 10 offensive teams have done since 2005. Why 2005? Partly due to laziness, and partly because I wanted to see trends during the years since NE last won a SB. For those years, I've tabulated how many made the playoffs, average wins and what the lowest win total was.

2009
NO, Minny, GB, SD, Philly, NE, Indy, NY, Balt, Hou

Playoff Teams - 8
Average wins - 11
Lowest win total - 8

2008
NO, SD, NYG, Ariz, GB, Philly, Carolina, NE, NYJ, Atanta

Playoff Teams - 6
Average wins - 9.5
Lowest win total - 6

2007
NE, Dallas, Indy, GB, SD, Jax, Ariz, Cleve, Pitt, Seattle

Playoff Teams - 8
Average wins - 11.5
Lowest win total - 8

2006
SD, Chicago, Indy, Dallas, NO, Philly, NE, Cincy, Jax, StL

Playoff Teams - 7
Average wins - 10.4
Lowest win total - 8

2005
Sea, Indy, NYG, Cincy, SD, KC, Denver, Caro, Pitt, NE

Playoff Teams - 8
Average wins - 11.3
Lowest win total - 8

Not too shabby. An average season with 10.74 wins with 37 of a possible 50 teams making the playoffs. Remarkably, only one team finished under .500 the entire time.

Now, defense wins championships, right? So let's take a look at teams with top 10 Ds.

2009
NYJ, Dall, Balt, SF, NE, Cincy, GB, Indy, Car, Minny

Playoff Teams - 8
Average wins - 10.2
Lowest win total - 8

2008
Pitt, TN, Balt, Phill, NYG, Wash, Indy, NE, Miami, TB

Playoff Teams - 7
Average wins - 10.8
Lowest win total - 8

2007
Indy, Pitt, TB, NE, SD, GB, Seattle, TN, Philly, Jax

Playoff Teams - 9
Average wins - 11.1
Lowest win total - 8

2006
Balt, NE, Chic, Jax, Miami, NYJ, SD, Denver, Caro, Buff

Playoff Teams - 6
Average wins - 10
Lowest win total - 6 (with another at 7)

2005
Chic, Indy, Denver, Pitt, Car, Jax, Seat, TB, Wash, Balt

Playoff Teams - 9
Average wins - 11.2
Lowest win total - 6

Not really a big difference. The defensive teams put 39 teams into the playoffs over 37 for the offensive. That's the only category they win, though. Offensive teams have a higher average win total (10.74 to 10.66) and less teams under .500 (1 to 3). Interestingly, in every year but 2008 the offensive teams have a higher average win total.

But Oswlek, there is a lot of overlap in those charts and NE's defense is going to BLOW this year!

Fair enough. Then let's isolate the teams that had a top 10 O, but were not in the top 10 D. Those teams include:

2009 - NO, SD, Philly, NYG, Hou
2008 - NO, SD, Ari, GB, Carolina, NYJ, Atlanta
2007 - Dallas, Ariz, Cleve
2006 - Indy, Dallas, NO, Philly, Cincy, StL
2005 - NYG, Cincy, SD, KC, NE

26 total teams with 15 making the playoffs. The average win total was 9.8. For shits and giggles, I did the same exercise with all defense/no offense teams. 27 teams, 17 playoff participants and an average win total of 9.7.

So a big discrepancy must rear its head in the playoffs. That's where defensive teams make hay, right?

To test this, I gave each team a point for every round they advanced in the playoffs. One and done? Zero points. Get a bye? An automatic one point before playing a game. Winning the SB gets you 4 points whether you were a wildcard or a team resting the first week.

The teams with a top O but an out of the money D earned a total of 18 points. All D all day teams? 13.

So the defensive teams earned 5 less advancements despite having an extra team in the big dance? Yup.

The long and short of it is this. Unless you are willing to step out on the branch and say that this will be the first Patriot team since 2003 to not be in the top 10 in total points, the odds are seriously in their favor of winning 10 games and making the playoffs. Even if the defense sucks.

I welcome your thoughts.

Looking ahead to the Jets

thomas144 — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:30:41 GMT

There's been an appropriately limited amount of discussion about the Patriots' first game of the season. We all know that the game the team is really preparing for this week is the New York Jets, the prohibitive Super Bowl favorite. Not since the New York Giants faced the undefeated Patriots in the Super Bowl has a team been such overwhelming underdogs going into a game that is two weeks away.

Could this be the week (next week) that sees Shawn Crable activated? Will he start?

Bush to Lose Heisman

PumpDee — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 15:26:02 GMT

Former Southern Cal running back Reggie Bush will be stripped of his 2005 Heisman Trophy according to an online report.

Bush would become the first player in the 75-year history of the award to be penalized in that fashion. The NCAA found major violations in the USC football program in June, resulting in sanctions.
Two sources close to the Heisman Trophy Trust told Yahoo Sports their investigation is coming to a close, and will concur this month with the NCAA�s ruling that Bush was ineligible in 2005.
Sources said the honor for that season will remain vacant. Texas quarterback Vince Young finished second in the voting, but Bush had a huge advantage (784 to 79) in first-place votes.
Bush reportedly met with Heisman representatives last month, though details of that meeting are unknown. In July, the school administration announced USC would return its copy of Bush�s Heisman to the trust.
The status of USC�s 2004 Bowl Championship Series title remains to be determined. BCS officials are awaiting the NCAA�s ruling on the Trojans� appeal of the NCAA sanctions.

Brady deal is imminent

PatsFanLisa — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 13:46:08 GMT

RapSheet The Herald is reporting a contract extension for Tom Brady and the Patriots is imminent. The parameters? A three-year $58-million extension

sports betting change?

mikiemo83 — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 02:17:04 GMT

on a 4 week trial basis I am thinking of switching up the sports betting to make it a little more realistic. I will post the odds on wednesday around noon and you can bet on them by replying to the thread with your picks and forwarding your casino cash to me at the time of the bet.

no casino cash sent means no bet

I will then send back any winnings on monday or tuesday

types of bets allowed will be

Quote:

Straight Bets
One team is typically favored over another by the pointspread; for betting purposes, the favorite spots the underdog points. Favorites are indicated by a minus sign (-) and the underdog by a plus sign (+) followed by the spread amount. Sometimes there is no spread on a game which the oddsmakers have deemed to be even money. This may be indicated by a PK (Pick) or an E (Even). For example, a line like this:
401 Philadelphia Eagles �3
402 Kansas City Chiefs
(The arbitrary numbers to the left of the team identify that team for the sportsbook for that week. Home team is listed on bottom.)

If you bet on KC (+3), and the final score ends up to be Philly 21, KC 19, you won your bet since KC covered the spread by 1 point. If the point differential of the game equals the pointspread (i.e.: Philly 21, KC 18), this is a push (tie) and your original bet on this game is refunded, regardless of which team was wagered on.

Money Line
Money Line bets on a game don�t use pointspreads. If a game is determined by a money line, then it will cost more to bet on the favorite. For example, a line like this:
401 Dallas Cowboys -140
402 Washington Redskins +130
If you bet on Dallas, you�d pay $140 in order to win $100. If you bet on Washington, you�d pay $100 to win $130. The money line may be represented to 2 decimals. In this case, substitute $100 for $1.

Over/Under (O/U) Totals
You can bet whether the total number of points scored by both teams in the game will be over or under the total set by the oddsmaker. For example, if the O/U is 38.5 and you believe that the combined points scored by both teams will exceed this number, you would bet over. You�d bet under if you believe the total points score will be less than 38.5.

Parlay
A wager on 2 or more teams or any other bet type. You can combine bets on games, pointspreads, O/Us, and money lines into a parlay bet. To win your parlay, you must hit all your picks. A single miss and the whole parlay loses. In the event of a push, the parlay drops to the next lower number, i.e. a 4-team parlay becomes 3-teams. Parlays are the high risk/high payout bets. Some sportsbook parlay odds may vary slightly on the higher number of selections, but the following is a typical example of payouts:
Football Point Spread Parlay Odds
2 Picks 2.5/1
3 Picks 6/1
4 Picks 10/1
5 Picks 20/1

Teasers
Like a parlay, a Teaser is a bet on 2 or more picks. The difference between the two is that in a teaser, the spreads are adjusted in your favor, but the teaser payouts are less than in a parlay. A 6 point, two team teaser would adjust the pointspread 6 points in the your favor for each game. For example, you choose both of the favorites in the following: Carolina Panthers are favored by 7 points in one game and the New England Patriots are favored by 8 in the other. You would net the spreads of each game against the 6 points. Carolina would now be favored by 1 point (7-6=1) and New England would now be favored by 2 points (8-6=2). In this case, you are betting that Carolina will win by >1 point and New England will win by > 2 points. Like parlays, all picks must be correct to win. In the case of a tie in a two team teaser, your bet is refunded. A tie, or push in a three or more team teaser will reduce the wager to the next lowest level. i.e. a 5 team teaser with a push becomes a 4 team teaser.

Football Teaser Odds
-----------6 Points - 6.5 Pts - 7 Pts
2 Picks 10/11 - 10/12 - 10/13
3 Picks 9/5 - 8/5 - 3/2
4 Picks 3/1 - 5/2 - 2/1
5 Picks 9/2 - 4/1 - 7/2

I am not an experianced gambler so a learning curve will take place so that is why I am thinking of a 4 week trial basis to see how it works.

sports betting change?

mikiemo83 — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 02:12:44 GMT

Quote:

Straight Bets
One team is typically favored over another by the pointspread; for betting purposes, the favorite spots the underdog points. Favorites are indicated by a minus sign (-) and the underdog by a plus sign (+) followed by the spread amount. Sometimes there is no spread on a game which the oddsmakers have deemed to be even money. This may be indicated by a PK (Pick) or an E (Even). For example, a line like this:
401 Philadelphia Eagles –3
402 Kansas City Chiefs
(The arbitrary numbers to the left of the team identify that team for the sportsbook for that week. Home team is listed on bottom.)

If you bet on KC (+3), and the final score ends up to be Philly 21, KC 19, you won your bet since KC covered the spread by 1 point. If the point differential of the game equals the pointspread (i.e.: Philly 21, KC 18), this is a push (tie) and your original bet on this game is refunded, regardless of which team was wagered on.

Money Line
Money Line bets on a game don’t use pointspreads. If a game is determined by a money line, then it will cost more to bet on the favorite. For example, a line like this:
401 Dallas Cowboys -140
402 Washington Redskins +130
If you bet on Dallas, you’d pay $140 in order to win $100. If you bet on Washington, you’d pay $100 to win $130. The money line may be represented to 2 decimals. In this case, substitute $100 for $1.

Over/Under (O/U) Totals
You can bet whether the total number of points scored by both teams in the game will be over or under the total set by the oddsmaker. For example, if the O/U is 38.5 and you believe that the combined points scored by both teams will exceed this number, you would bet over. You’d bet under if you believe the total points score will be less than 38.5.

Parlay
A wager on 2 or more teams or any other bet type. You can combine bets on games, pointspreads, O/Us, and money lines into a parlay bet. To win your parlay, you must hit all your picks. A single miss and the whole parlay loses. In the event of a push, the parlay drops to the next lower number, i.e. a 4-team parlay becomes 3-teams. Parlays are the high risk/high payout bets. Some sportsbook parlay odds may vary slightly on the higher number of selections, but the following is a typical example of payouts:
Football Point Spread Parlay Odds
2 Picks 2.5/1
3 Picks 6/1
4 Picks 10/1
5 Picks 20/1

Teasers
Like a parlay, a Teaser is a bet on 2 or more picks. The difference between the two is that in a teaser, the spreads are adjusted in your favor, but the teaser payouts are less than in a parlay. A 6 point, two team teaser would adjust the pointspread 6 points in the your favor for each game. For example, you choose both of the favorites in the following: Carolina Panthers are favored by 7 points in one game and the New England Patriots are favored by 8 in the other. You would net the spreads of each game against the 6 points. Carolina would now be favored by 1 point (7-6=1) and New England would now be favored by 2 points (8-6=2). In this case, you are betting that Carolina will win by >1 point and New England will win by > 2 points. Like parlays, all picks must be correct to win. In the case of a tie in a two team teaser, your bet is refunded. A tie, or push in a three or more team teaser will reduce the wager to the next lowest level. i.e. a 5 team teaser with a push becomes a 4 team teaser.

Football Teaser Odds
-----------6 Points - 6.5 Pts - 7 Pts
2 Picks 10/11 - 10/12 - 10/13
3 Picks 9/5 - 8/5 - 3/2
4 Picks 3/1 - 5/2 - 2/1
5 Picks 9/2 - 4/1 - 7/2

I am not an experianced gambler so a learning curve will take place so that is why I am thinking of a 4 week trial basis to see how it works.

2010 Suicide Pool

bmooney54 — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 00:34:56 GMT

Rules:
1. Pick one team that you "guarantee" will win that week.
2. You can only pick a team once during the season.
3. Your pick for the week is due in this thread by kickoff of the first game.
4. Post your pick in this thread.
5. Last one standing wins.

Previous winners:
2008 TG
2009 FreeTedWilliams

Good luck and go Pats!

:Patriots!

State of the Pats

mayoclinic — Tue, 07 Sep 2010 00:28:35 GMT

This is something that was tried last year on the other board, and seemed to work well. The general concept is this: each week anyone is free to post once, and only once, about the state of the team - general predictions for the season, reactions to the previous weeks games, concerns for the upcoming game, etc. Only 1 post per member per week is allowed - no revisions, no direct responses to what other people post. The thread was pastied last year so that it could easily be found, and if people are interested I would suggest that the mods pasty it.

I'll start of the thread, assuming that others will find it interesting.

The State of the Pats - Week 1

General Thoughts

2009 was the most disappointing season I can remember under BB. Most fans went into the season optimistic with the return of Tom Brady, expecting the team to pick up from the 2007 team. Instead we had the most annoyingly inconsistent Pats team of the decade - some fabulous play mixed in with red zone problems, 2nd half and road collapses, defensive meltdowns, boring and predictable play at times on offense, and uncharacteristic locker room dissent. The embarassing home blowout to the Ravens seemed to capture all of the frustrating nature of the season.

The team has largely been rebuilt for 2010, expectations among the media are much lower, but I have been fairly optimistic up to now that the Pats could still be a potential contender. There is more talent and speed on defense and more weapons and flexibility on offense than ever. I thought the Pats were a year away from becoming a potential juggernaut, but I was optimistic that we might surprise people and potentially contend this year.

Training camp started with a lot of excitement, particularly with the joint scrimmages with the Saints and Falcons. But the last 2 weeks have been very disappointing. The Mankins holdout and Nick Kaczur's injury, combined with the failure of any of the 4 OLs drafted in the past 2 years to develop, has left us extremely thin on the OL. Season-ending injuries or surgeries to Ty Warren, Leigh Bodden and Brandon McGowan has left us extremely young on defense and impacted our depth. Nagging injuries seemed to slow the quick starts of Jermaine Cunningham and (to a lesser degree) Julian Edelman and Aaron Hernandez. And Derrick Burgess' "retirement" and subsequent lack of production left us more thin than ever at the pass rushing DE/OLB position.

Right now this seems to me like a team on the fence. Anything between 8-8 and 12-4 would not surprise me. I think the offense will be top 5 if the pass protection can hold up. The development of the TEs plus Brandon Tate gives Brady more options than ever before. Bill O'Brien seems to be developing as an OC, and the offense in the first 2 preseason games showed signs of more diversity than we have seen in a long, long time. Gronk and Hernandez are going to have a huge impact. Fred Taylor looks rejuvenated, though I doubt he will hold up for an entire season. The OL is a concern on paper, but Dan Connolly has been solid in the preseason and the first string line played fairly well. The second string is another matter altogether at the moment, and further injuries could be devestating.

Defensively there is loads of talent, but lots of inexperience as well. Brandon Spikes has been a revelation and our defense up the middle could be the best since 2003-2004. I think Jerod Mayo will have a big year. Pat Chung looks like the second coming of Rodney, and Devin McCourty looks mature beyond his years at CB. Ron Brace shows signs of becoming a solid 3-4 DE. But there are still too many young players and question marks to feel that the defense can be relied on. I'm hoping that the offense will carry the team through the first half of the season and that the defense will come together, but it's entirely possible that we're throwing the youngsters into the fire too soon.

I still think we win the AFCE. 10-6 is reasonable, 11-5 doable. 12-4 is possible if the defense matures much more quickly than expected and the OL holds up. But I wouldn't be surprised by 9-7 or even 8-8. I'm going to stay optimistic for now and say 11-5 and the #3/4 seed in the AFC.

Week 1 - Cincinnati

The Bengals are a solid team. I think that they will be in the mix for the AFC North division title. They have good balance on both offense and defense.

Carson Palmer has more weapons than he had in 2009, though both Chad Ochocinco and Terrell Owens are past there prime and don't have as much ability to separate as in the past. Jermaine Gresham helps to stretch the field, and Jordan Shipley shows promise as a slot receiver. Cedric Benson is a load. They should be a good test for our defense. I think that Devin McCourty matches up fairly well with the bigger, more physical receivers. I had thought that we would be in good shape with Bodden and McCourty on Owens and Ochocinco, but Bodden's and McCourty's injuries leaves us exposed. I'll be very curious to see how our secondary fares. The Bengals OL is vulnerable, and I'm particularly hoping to see some pressure up the middle, and some creative blitzes and defensive formations. I expect BB to be very conservative about installing new wrinkles with a young defense, but if we play vanilla 3-4 BBDB the entire game I will be disappointed.

Leon Hall and Jonathan Joseph are two very good CBs, but the Bengals' safeties are weak and the Pats just have too many offensive weapons. I'm hoping to see Gronk and Hernandez used in a big way, and possible both Welker and Edelman at the same time. I don't see the Bengals stopping our offense, especially if we can establish the run with Fred Taylor. I'd like to see 2+ TEs used 65-70% of the time the way they were in the first 2 preseason games, with a much more physical offense.

Prediction: Pats 31, Bengals 20. Rob Gronkowski gets 2 TDs. This is will be a good test going in to week 2 against the Jesters.

That's all till next week.

Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums and Message Boards

Burn, baby burn....

Reminder: Sons of Anarchy season starts tonight

Fantasy Football Team Names

**Random FOOTBALL Thoughts That Don't Warrant Full Threads**

Super Bowl Predicitions 2011

I'm surprised no one died...

Were to watch opener in Denver?

Expectations

Looking ahead to the Jets

Bush to Lose Heisman

Brady deal is imminent

sports betting change?

sports betting change?

2010 Suicide Pool

State of the Pats

Random FOOTBALL Thoughts That Don't Warrant Full Threads