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View Full Version : Pentagon report blasts bush: Muslims don't hate our freedom, they hate our policies


Phokus
11-29-2004, 09:57 PM
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html

I think all the blue staters are screaming a collective, "DUH!"

This and that PIPA report that shows the large number of conservatives who believe saddam was connected to 9/11 really makes me weep for our nation.




Quietly released Pentagon report contains major criticisms of administration.

by Tom Regan | csmonitor.com

Late on the Wednesday afternoon before the Thanksgiving holiday, the US Defense Department released a report by the Defense Science Board that is highly critical of the administration's efforts in the war on terror and in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

'Muslims do not hate our freedom, but rather they hate our policies [the report says]. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the long-standing, even increasing, support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan and the Gulf states. Thus, when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy.'

The Pentagon released the study after The New York Times ran a story about the report in its Wednesday editions.

The Defense Science Board, reports Disinfopedia, is "a Federal advisory committee established to provide independent advice to the Secretary of Defense."

'The current Board is authorized to consist of thirty-two members plus seven ex officio members': the chairmen of the Army, Navy, Air Force, Policy, Ballistic Missile Defense Advisory Committee, and Defense Intelligence Agency Science and Technology Advisory Committee. 'Members, whose appointed terms range from one to four years, are selected on the basis of their preeminence in the fields of science, technology and its application to military operations, research, engineering, manufacturing and acquisition process.'

China's Xinhuanet reported that the board's report criticized the US for failing in its efforts to communicate its military and diplomatic actions to the world, and the Muslim world in particular, "but no public relations campaign can save America from flawed policies." The report also takes the administration to task for talking about Islamic extremism in a way that offends many Muslims.

In stark contrast to the cold war, the United States today is not seeking to contain a threatening state empire, but rather seeking to convert a broad movement within Islamic civilization to accept the value structure of Western Modernity – an agenda hidden within the official rubric of a 'War on Terrorism,' [the report states].

MSNBC notes that the report, in a comment that directly goes against statements made by President Bush and senior cabinet members, says the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have united otherwise-divided Muslim extremists and given terrorists organizations like Al Qaeda a boost by "raising their stature."

In fact, Wired News reported the board as saying, the US has not only failed to separate "the vast majority of nonviolent Muslims from the radical-militant Islamist-Jihadists," but American efforts may have "achieved the opposite of what they intended."

Al Jazeera reported Thursday that the board called for the creation of a strategic communication's "apparatus" within the executive branch and "an overhaul of public diplomacy, public affairs and information dissemination efforts by the Pentagon and State Department."

If we really want to see the Muslim world as a whole [the report states], and the Arabic-speaking world in particular, move more toward our understanding of moderation and tolerance, we must reassure Muslims that this does not mean that they must submit to the American way.

As columnist Thomas Freidman of The New York Times wrote Monday in an opinion piece, the lack of planning and a 'clear channel of communication to the Muslim world' means that the US is losing the PR war to people that "saw off the heads of other Muslims."

Wars are fought for political ends. Soldiers can only do so much. And the last mile in every war is about claiming the political fruits. The bad guys in Iraq can lose every mile on every road, but if they beat America on the last mile – because they are able to intimidate better than America is able to coordinate, protect, inform, invest and motivate – they will win and America will lose.

The New York Times reported last Wednesday that although the board's report does not constitute official government policy, it captures "the essential themes of a debate that is now roiling not just the Defense Department but the entire United States government."

spiderman
11-30-2004, 06:26 AM
Originally posted by Phokus
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1129/dailyUpdate.html

I think all the blue staters are screaming a collective, "DUH!"

This and that PIPA report that shows the large number of conservatives who believe saddam was connected to 9/11 really makes me weep for our nation.

I've tried about 5 times this morning to respond thoughtfully to this post, but I think that these 2 statements are going to make my head explode, so I'll let somebody else respond...

:banghead:

Ballbustah
11-30-2004, 09:04 AM
Ignoring all the other facts?

dchester
11-30-2004, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by spiderman
I've tried about 5 times this morning to respond thoughtfully to this post, but I think that these 2 statements are going to make my head explode, so I'll let somebody else respond...

:banghead: It had a similar effect on me. I figure, why bother trying to have a constructive dialog. Just let the Bush haters keep thinking they're smarter than everyone else, and leave it at that.
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Ballbustah
11-30-2004, 09:42 AM
Yeah...
We are all just Bush haters.
There are no facts in this report at all to react to.

bideau
11-30-2004, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by dchester
It had a similar effect on me. I figure, why bother trying to have a constructive dialog. Just let the Bush haters keep thinking they're smarter than everyone else, and leave it at that.

What does this have to do with Bush hating. There's legitimate concerns about the strategy in Iraq from both democrats and republicans.

I'm curious to find out which parts of the article you and spider disagree with.

spiderman
11-30-2004, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by bideau
What does this have to do with Bush hating. There's legitimate concerns about the strategy in Iraq from both democrats and republicans.

I'm curious to find out which parts of the article you and spider disagree with.

It wasn't the article it was the 2 comments up front that bothered me.

I think all the blue staters are screaming a collective, "DUH!"

This is just elitist garbage that suggests, because I voted for GW, I'm completely unaware of the whole Western vs Eastern struggle going on, and the intricate dynamics of the situtation. Apparently only people who voted for Kerry are enlightened. Not to mention my whole issue with the Blue State/Red State thing which deserves its own thread.

This and that PIPA report that shows the large number of conservatives who believe saddam was connected to 9/11 really makes me weep for our nation.

Enough already with the PIPA report, I know what it says, but it isn't the bible. It's referred to on an almost daily basis. I was willing to discuss it 6 months ago, and why I think it was flawed, but its old news at this point. I'm sick of it being waved around as some sort of "trump" card or something. YES! there are clueless people who voted for GW, so WHAT there are clueless people who voted for John Kerry. What if I did a poll where 80% of Liberals actually thought that the government "produced" something and then waved it around like scripture, every other day.


As far as the article goes, I don't think it is really shedding any new light onto anything. I agree that we are losing the PR battle, and I agree that our policy with regards to Israel is a huge issue with most of the middle east...what's the point? I knew all of this already, GW is engaged in a battle that most of his predecessors stayed far away from. In all honesty he tried to stay away from it as well, until that terrible day in 2001. It's difficult, it's complicated, we are making mistakes, we need to take a hard look at what we are doing, we need to critique ourselves...I agree.

dchester
11-30-2004, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by bideau
What does this have to do with Bush hating. There's legitimate concerns about the strategy in Iraq from both democrats and republicans.

I'm curious to find out which parts of the article you and spider disagree with. It was the comment made before the article. The one that Spidey already quoted.

I think all the blue staters are screaming a collective, "DUH!"

This and that PIPA report that shows the large number of conservatives who believe saddam was connected to 9/11 really makes me weep for our nation.


The campaign is over, and Bush won. A lot of people seem to feel it is because "dumb dumbs" voted for Bush. When I sense that someone really wants to have a constructive debate, I'll participate (time permitting), but when you start out with the same tired rhetoric about "blue staters" being smarter than conservatives, what is left to discuss (other than having a flame war).

Liberals act as if they hold some high moral ground (similar to what many social conservatives think). Both groups need to learn how to understand how people can have different opinions, without calling people stupid or immoral (and most of the name calling (in this forum) has come from the liberals, in my opinion). A lot of the people calling names, really need to take a long look in the mirror, in my opinion.
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ATENEARS
11-30-2004, 10:13 AM
<<< the US is losing the PR war to people that "saw off the heads of other Muslims." >>>>

Yeah, it must be us ... why are we disturbing these peaceful religious people?

ATENEARS (I say, hit'em with a bigger stick)

bideau
11-30-2004, 10:15 AM
OK guys. Now I understand. Personally, I wouldn't have added the sentences at the beginning. To me, we're at the point where the problems with Iraq cross any idealogical boundaries. They just need to be solved. I'm hoping that the administration is looking at all advice and will make the correct choices.

Ballbustah
11-30-2004, 10:18 AM
I hope the Bush administraition can make the right choices.

dchester
11-30-2004, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by bideau
OK guys. Now I understand. Personally, I wouldn't have added the sentences at the beginning. To me, we're at the point where the problems with Iraq cross any idealogical boundaries. They just need to be solved. I'm hoping that the administration is looking at all advice and will make the correct choices. BTW, I'm not trying to inhibit what anyone else here is saying, but explain why I said what I did. If you think Bush is an idiot, I have no issue with you saying that. I'm less enamored when people say anyone who voted for Bush is an idiot. However, once again I'm not trying to tell you not to express your feelings. But please remember, if you call someone an SOB, dummy, etc (whether explicit or implicit), don't expect them to show you any more respect then you showed them. A lot of people will attack back when they believe they've been attacked. Admittedly, the better thing to do is just to ignore the comment, but we don't always have perfect discipline.
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