Makin' babies...

[TrueBeliever]

Now I am generally a Democrat, but there are some issues that definitely make me lean towards the conservative side. One is the issue of baby factories (or promiscuous women, if you prefer).

Why is it that in this day and age, when you can walk into virtually any gas station and buy condoms, I see more and more babies being churned out?

I haven't looked into any national statistics, but every time you turn around it seems another woman is pregnant. My girlfriend's sister, for example, has three children by three different men. My uncle's wife has a daughter with five kids by as many men. And I'm sure all of you reading this can rattle off even more examples.

What the hell is going on here? We are arguably a society with looser morals today, but we are also far more educated about sexuality, and you'd think we'd know better that children raised in two-parent homes turn out better. Granted I'm just speaking about where I live, maybe it's different where you live, but when I grew up just about every kid who was labeled as a "troublemaker" came out of a divorced or otherwise single-parent household.

Harlan Ellison once said he found it unfathomable that to do virtually anything in our society, from buy a car or a house, to starting a business, you have to prove that you are good and upstanding (at least for the money) but to bring a life into the world all you have to do is hop in the sack for 30 seconds. My mom worked all her life in a hospital and saw endless infertile couples who wanted so desperately to have a child, and saw just as many stupid kids and welfare frauds who had more kids than they knew what to do with, who they abused in public and neglected. What is wrong with this picture?

Call me whatever you want, I just don't have sympathy for these people. Keep your pants on or wear a condom and you won't have these problems.

I know I don't know where this is going or even what I'm trying to say, I guess I'm just pissed that people are so careless when it comes to sex. Babies are not "oops". Babies are new lives, new existences and the issue should be treated seriously and with respect.

Well, I'm done for now. Thank you.

[Undertaker #59]

I am not going to get into a long detailed thesis on this, but I think the main reasons for this issue are:

1)The welfare state: paying people more money for more kids.

2)The continued absence of father figures in girls lives leading them to fill that void with a parade of men.

[TrueBeliever]

Originally posted by Undertaker #59

1)The welfare state: paying people more money for more kids.


Truth be told Under I was going to make this topic a welfare issue but then I took it all back out because to me it was more an issue of stupidity among these people.

But the welfare thing drives right to the heart of where I lean towards conservative. Part of me says that the only way to teach these clowns to keep their pants on is to cut off the welfare, and the other part says it's not fair to make these children suffer for the sins of their parents.

Maybe the answer is just not looking at things in absolutes. I used to work with a girl who came from a strong Catholic household with both parents who were hard-working, upstanding members of the community. She has two children by two different men, both of whom have been deported back to Mexico. One day at work this issue came up and she was saying how she wanted insurance to cover her birth control, which she said was very expensive. To which I answered what I said before, you can get condoms damn near anywhere these days. She didn't appreciate that.

[spiderman]

Originally posted by TrueBeliever
One day at work this issue came up and she was saying how she wanted insurance to cover her birth control, which she said was very expensive. To which I answered what I said before, you can get condoms damn near anywhere these days. She didn't appreciate that.

The State of Massachusetts...errr I mean US tax payers, WILL pay for her birth control.

[bideau]

Originally posted by spiderman
The State of Massachusetts...errr I mean US tax payers, WILL pay for her birth control.

Most medical Insurance will NOT pay for birth control but WILL pay for Viagra :confused:

Sorry True, but if she can't afford the pill, she can't afford condoms. I'm not a big fan of state subsidized children, but the reality is that its pretty short sighted to bitch and moan about the children being born but not provide the birth control which is many times cheaper.

There are cheap solutions out there but many times the moral police get in the way. So how about we say to these welfare parents (yes, many times it does take two, single mothers aren't the only ones on welfare), no extra support for anymore children born. Here's a year's supply of birth control. Choose not to use them if you like, but any new child will not be supported.

[TrueBeliever]

I'm not saying the state shouldn't pay for birth control. If anything I'm looking for other peoples' opinions to try and figure out what I think is wrong or right.

And I absolutely agree with you about "moral police". I think they should give out condoms in high school. The age of promoting abstinence is long past; it's too late for that now. That's the same reason other countries are getting mad at us about the AIDS crisis in Africa; the Bush administration is pushing abstinence promotion over there rather than safer sex.

[spiderman]

Negative, I KNOW someone who is a single mother and gets Birth Control pills for FREE! The State (taxpayers) gave her a prescription for free after she had her child. To her credit she DOES NOT receive welfare or any other assistance.

Look I know many, many people who receive welfare and/or live in projects. I have NO respect for any of them because they are all perfectly physically and mentally capable of supporting themselves and their families but are either on drugs, or are too lazy to get up in the morning and hold a job. Afterall, they get a free apartment and a check every week, then usually work on the side under the table in order to buy new rims for their car. For those of you who think living on the public dime is a horrible gig, I have news for you IT ISN'T.

I am an ultra conservative on this issue, in fact, I don't believe in ANY public assistance for ANYONE who isn't mentally or physically impaired.

[bideau]

Originally posted by TrueBeliever
I'm not saying the state shouldn't pay for birth control. If anything I'm looking for other peoples' opinions to try and figure out what I think is wrong or right.

And I absolutely agree with you about "moral police". I think they should give out condoms in high school. The age of promoting abstinence is long past; it's too late for that now. That's the same reason other countries are getting mad at us about the AIDS crisis in Africa; the Bush administration is pushing abstinence promotion over there rather than safer sex.

OK, I guess I'll calm down now. ;)

As I said, I'm not a supporter of long term welfare. I do believe there are times when a family needs help when dealing with difficult circumstances. But it's supposed to be intended as a temporary bridge. My own family has benefited. My father was out of work for 6 months back in the late 60's (he was a chemical engineer). He was trying to support seven kids (classic old Catholic family). My mother worked when she could, my father pumped gas for minimum wage, my grandmother watched us when they were both out, but it still wasn't enough to feed, shelter and clothe us. My mother said it was the toughest decision they ever made when they had to ask for help. But they only used it until they were back on their feet. Today, many families are "institutionalize" on welfare. They either have no desire to get off or don't know how. I know the solution is not too completely shut off the tap. But there has to be a way to wean these people off until they reach a make or break point.

Very complicated situation. As the saying goes, if you want it screwed up, let the government do it.

[spiderman]

Okay, let me amend what I said.

In a case like the one Bideau described, I have no problem with my tax dollars going towards helping a family in need get back on there feet.

But that just isn't the state of welfare in Massachusetts.

I had a neighbor who got his girlfriend pregnant, she went on welfare and he used to sit around ALL day smoking cigarette's and drinking beer.

Words can't describe how ANGRY this used to make me.

[Undertaker #59]

Originally posted by bideau
Sorry True, but if she can't afford the pill, she can't afford condoms. I'm not a big fan of state subsidized children, but the reality is that its pretty short sighted to bitch and moan about the children being born but not provide the birth control which is many times cheaper.


Why should we pay for birth control for someone else? The State is we the taxpayers. Its not like these people HAVE to have sex (like they have to have food and clothing). To me, its just another example of people shirking personal responsibility.

Go and get birth control if you are going to have sex and don't want to make babies. If you can't afford ANY birth control, and still don't want to make babies, then do not have intercourse until you can. All it requires is a little self-control.

[dchester]

Originally posted by spiderman
Okay, let me amend what I said.

In a case like the one Bideau described, I have no problem with my tax dollars going towards helping a family in need get back on there feet.

But that just isn't the state of welfare in Massachusetts.

I had a neighbor who got his girlfriend pregnant, she went on welfare and he used to sit around ALL day smoking cigarette's and drinking beer.

Words can't describe how ANGRY this used to make me. I know what you mean. Several years back, I lived in a condo where a few of the owners started renting their units out to welfare mothers. It completely changed the atmosphere of the place. The welfare mothers weren't that bad (except for one), but their loser boyfriends were just rediculous. None of them worked. I got in the face of a few of them for various reasons (trashing the place, parking in my spot (we had assigned parking), boozing it up in the hallways, and one of them was actually dealing drugs (I called the cops on that one)).

Frankly, I'm at the point now, where I think the only time a woman should get welfare, is if she was married and her husband left her. I think it has been a disaster for the government to set up a teenager in an apartment because she got pregnant. I know it sounds cruel, but I would be in favor of putting an end to it. If the girl can't take care of the child, then either put it up for adoption, or I would even be in favor of the government setting up ophanages again, even if they had to raise taxes to do it properly. This current situation is terrible for the kids growing up in that environment.
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[Spinal Tap]

anybody ever heard of "pulling out"?

at least it's more effective than droppin bombs then playing stupid when the chick gets pregnant.

ya know?

[spiderman]

Originally posted by Spinal Tap
anybody ever heard of "pulling out"?

at least it's more effective than droppin bombs then playing stupid when the chick gets pregnant.

ya know?

Now you're making too much sense.

[Spinal Tap]

Hey, it's worked for me so far. :D

[Tiger_69]

Originally posted by Spinal Tap
anybody ever heard of "pulling out"? I get the point but that's not always the answer - not to mention the fact that it's not always that easy to do during climax :p .

The social programs that were supposed to be the solution about 30 years ago are the problem now. Actually they were a problem then but nobody wanted to admit it.

[TrueBeliever]

Not to change the topic, but no, pulling out doesn't always help. Women can get pregnant from the pre-*** the man leaks out as well. That's why you need to wear a raincoat the whole time.

[Spinal Tap]

Originally posted by TrueBeliever
Not to change the topic, but no, pulling out doesn't always help. Women can get pregnant from the pre-*** the man leaks out as well. That's why you need to wear a raincoat the whole time.

Truebeliever, nobody said that a woman can't get pregnant if the man pulls out. However, would the woman have a better chance of pregnancy with 3 million of those little suckers trying to fertalize her egg? Or, would the few hundred thousand found in the pre-goo (sorry ladies) have a better shot at it? It's all about percentages baby. You gotta play the percentages.

[TrueBeliever]

Geez, suddenly this thing turned into a freakin' sex ed class.

[Spinal Tap]

Originally posted by TrueBeliever
Geez, suddenly this thing turned into a freakin' sex ed class.

Well, the title of the thread is "Makin' Babies". If you have another way to do such a thing without having sex............keep it to yourself. :cool:

[TrueBeliever]

Originally posted by Spinal Tap
Well, the title of the thread is "Makin' Babies". If you have another way to do such a thing without having sex............keep it to yourself. :cool:

But I've never even BEEN to Canada!