And tonight, Curtis Painter!!!

[ParanoidPatriot]

The Curtis :LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL Painter era begins tonight for the Colts.:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL

Will Curtis shock the football world and lead the Colts to 12 straight victories and be the NFL MVP? Will Curtis make colts fan hold up signs saying "Peyton who?" Or will Curtis :LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL Painter be back holding a clipboard by the start of the 4th quarter?

The drama starts tonight on ESPN Monday Night Football. Are you ready?

Discusspopcorn

[Muse]

This will be a must game to view for me, and that says a lot since the new season of House starts tonight. :)

[PatsRUs]

“We just told our team, Peyton’s not here and whomever we have at quarterback is not going to be able to do the same things he’s able to do,”

-Jim Caldwell


87923

[Dwight Schrute]

I suppose 11-5 is still within reach...

[Brady's Bunch]

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID4450/images/Caldwell,_Jags.jpg

[Beaglebay]

Some of those Colts players have to have some pride...right?

[Muse]

Some of those Colts players have to have some pride...right?

Sorry but this got me ROFLROFLROFL

[Claremonster]

Some of those Colts players have to have some pride...right?


No. The Lions have a Pride. The Colts have a Herd. :coffee:

[Kid Leo]

Painter is just keeping the seat warm for Andrew Luck.
Posted via Mobile Device

[cka203]

:facepalm:

[The Gr8est]

Painter is just keeping the seat warm for Andrew Luck.
Posted via Mobile Device


So I guess this is a "must lose" game for the Colts.

[Claremonster]

:facepalm:

Oh, c'mon, you know you're gonna watch every moment of it tonight. You live for this. :coffee:

[Coltsfan2theend]

Since I will be at work, won't watch any of it. I will say, if Painter plays just as good or better then last week, it just might be a winable game.

[Claremonster]

Every. Glorious. Curtis. Painter. Moment. :coffee:

[PumpDee]

He could be the next TFB for all we know. :coffee:

































ROFL It ROFL took ROFL me ROFL like ROFL 10 ROFL minutes ROFL to ROFL type ROFL that ROFL

[midgar8784]

Stats for painter tonight....25-31 323 yards 4 td's 1 int.....peyton who?:coffee:

[Fawn Lebowitz]

Elvis Painter will be lucky to still be vertical after the 2nd quarter. We are the anti Raiders. "Just lose baby!":ohnoez:

[Muse]

He could be the next TFB for all we know. :coffee:

































ROFL It ROFL took ROFL me ROFL like ROFL 10 ROFL minutes ROFL to ROFL type ROFL that ROFL
:shake:





ROFLROFLROFL

[PatsFan09]

The Curtis :LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL Painter era begins tonight for the Colts.:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL

Will Curtis shock the football world and lead the Colts to 12 straight victories and be the NFL MVP? Will Curtis make colts fan hold up signs saying "Peyton who?" Or will Curtis :LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL Painter be back holding a clipboard by the start of the 4th quarter?

The drama starts tonight on ESPN Monday Night Football. Are you ready?

Discusspopcorn

As I said elsewhere, I honestly believe that he'll play much better than Collins did in any of the first three games.

'Course, that's not saying all that much.

But a win wouldn't surprise me against Tampa.

[midgar8784]

As I said elsewhere, I honestly believe that he'll play much better than Collins did in any of the first three games.

'Course, that's not saying all that much.

But a win wouldn't surprise me against Tampa.

He might actually play better than Collins. I thought it was stupid for the colts to go pull collins out of retirement. He was 0-6 last year for the titans and then retires. If Manning went down, see what you have in Painter period. There is no point in putting collins out there. None at all. You are not gaining anything, painter has been in your system and you have to see what you have.

[cka203]

He might actually play better than Collins. I thought it was stupid for the colts to go pull collins out of retirement. He was 0-6 last year for the titans and then retires. If Manning went down, see what you have in Painter period. There is no point in putting collins out there. None at all. You are not gaining anything, painter has been in your system and you have to see what you have.

We've seen what we have in Painter the last 3 pre-seasons. Knowing we might actually have to use him in regular season is why we went after Collins.

Yeah, Collins sucks. And Painter has had a few (VERY few) flashes of competency. But... :shake:

If our defense comes to play like they did last week, and if we run Addai, we might have a chance. If Painter starts slinging it, all bets are off.

[Jaric]

As I said elsewhere, I honestly believe that he'll play much better than Collins did in any of the first three games.

'Course, that's not saying all that much.

But a win wouldn't surprise me against Tampa.
Not sure about that bolded part there PF09. I'm hoping he plays better, which shouldn't be that hard considering how low the bar has been set. Not sure about much better.

One thing is for sure, if we can't run the ball or play defense we aren't going to come close to winning.

[fester]

The Curtis :LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL Painter era begins tonight for the Colts.:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL

Will Curtis shock the football world and lead the Colts to 12 straight victories and be the NFL MVP? Will Curtis make colts fan hold up signs saying "Peyton who?" Or will Curtis :LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL Painter be back holding a clipboard by the start of the 4th quarter?

The drama starts tonight on ESPN Monday Night Football. Are you ready?

Discusspopcorn
The critical question is the size of the thread on 18to84.com on the debate whether Painter or Peyton should be traded at the end of the season....

[Alk]

Man, I really hope he just forces every ball to Wayne. My only other option to salvage this weeks fantasy football game is Mike Williams. :doh:

[midgar8784]

We've seen what we have in Painter the last 3 pre-seasons. Knowing we might actually have to use him in regular season is why we went after Collins.

Yeah, Collins sucks. And Painter has had a few (VERY few) flashes of competency. But... :shake:

If our defense comes to play like they did last week, and if we run Addai, we might have a chance. If Painter starts slinging it, all bets are off.

Painter has never started a game. I understand the preseason stuff, but at some point you have to see what you have and that means a few games. There are going to be decisions about the QB position in Indy and one of those is seeing what painter is and what needs to be done. Without a few starts, you cannot get a complete feel at all.

[HSanders]

I feel sorry for Painter myself.
He just can't win (figuratively) no matter what he does.

[Claremonster]

I feel sorry for Painter myself.
He just can't win (figuratively) no matter what he does.

Maybe he should cut his hair. :coffee:

[cka203]

Maybe he should cut his hair. :coffee:

That would help! I can barely stomach looking at him! :Eason:

[tommysgirl]

Man, I really hope he just forces every ball to Wayne. My only other option to salvage this weeks fantasy football game is Mike Williams. :doh:
Bite your tongue. I am 16 points up today and am playing Mike Williams, I have Blount. Run it Tampa, run it!!!

[Alk]

Bite your tongue. I am 16 points up today and am playing Mike Williams, I have Blount. Run it Tampa, run it!!!

No, I have to decide between Williams or Wayne. Right now I'm leaning towards Wayne because William hasn't done crap all season.

[Kid Leo]

We've seen what we have in Painter the last 3 pre-seasons. Knowing we might actually have to use him in regular season is why we went after Collins.

Yeah, Collins sucks. And Painter has had a few (VERY few) flashes of competency. But... :shake:

If our defense comes to play like they did last week, and if we run Addai, we might have a chance. If Painter starts slinging it, all bets are off.

You really don't know Painter will perfom in regular season game with all the starters. Forget preseason. It means nothing. I am looking forward to seeing Painter out there now that he has some real game experience with the.1st stringers. His teamates want him out there over Collins & that goes a long way. I expect them to play hard & with a lot of energy for their guy. The players never wanted Collins.Midgar is right. Collins is nothing more than a waste of time & money. Give Painter a chance before you throw him under the bus.
Posted via Mobile Device

[JD10367]

As I said elsewhere, I honestly believe that he'll play much better than Collins did in any of the first three games.

'Course, that's not saying all that much.

Agreed. I've never been that impressed with Collins, and I don't think he greatly improved their chances of winning. Might as well see if Painter is at least good enough to remain the backup.

[cka203]

The new face of the franchise :facepalm:

[CleatMarks]

I'd laugh my ass off to see the Colts tank the season, pick up Luck, and have him be the second coming of Ryan Leaf.

[CleatMarks]

The new face of the franchise :facepalm:


He's the ant-Peyton. That' guy's got no forehead. His skull starts its backwards curve starting at his eyelids. ROFL

[cka203]

I'd laugh my ass off to see the Colts tank the season, pick up Luck, and have him be the second coming of Ryan Leaf.

I don't think they're tanking the season. Last week proved that. They're just not that good without Peyton. :shrug:

And there's not another Peyton waiting in the wings. Guys like Peyton and Brady just don't come along very often. I expect we're gonna struggle mightily for a few years, finding Peyton's successor and rethinking our offense, etc.

I hope I'm wrong, but... :shrug:

[midgar8784]

The new face of the franchise :facepalm:

Damn he looks stoned out of his mind. "Watch the leather maaaaaan!

[cka203]

He's the ant-Peyton. That' guy's got no forehead. His skull starts its backwards curve starting at his eyelids. ROFL

Wait till you see him tucking his hair behind his ears, or whipping it out of his face :facepalm:

[cka203]

Damn he looks stoned out of his mind. "Watch the leather maaaaaan!

ROFL He is one ugly mofo! (Painter, I mean) :p

[patsload]

The new face of the franchise :facepalm:

That's a weird looking dude.

[TheBostonJay]

I know right. If you're going to suck at least look pretty..

[dchester]

The new face of the franchise :facepalm:

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=87932&stc=1&d=1317664337

He looks like a winner.

:)

[PatsFan09]

We've seen what we have in Painter the last 3 pre-seasons. Knowing we might actually have to use him in regular season is why we went after Collins.

Yeah, Collins sucks. And Painter has had a few (VERY few) flashes of competency. But... :shake:

If our defense comes to play like they did last week, and if we run Addai, we might have a chance. If Painter starts slinging it, all bets are off.

Cassel was no better than Painter in the preseason.

Preseason is a poor, poor way of grading a QB.

[cka203]

Cassel was no better than Painter in the preseason.

Preseason is a poor, poor way of grading a QB.

True. But... I just have no faith in the boy. :shrug:

If he proves me wrong, I'll be elated.

Hope springs eternal! :Party:

[PumpDee]

He looks like a winner.

:)



Whoa whoa whoa.........hold on!!!!



















That's a GUY?!?!?! :blink:

[PatrietteAz]

Does he wear wooden clogs and put his thumb on the dyke to stop the water from coming in?:)

[midgar8784]

Does he wear wooden clogs and put his thumb on the dyke to stop the water from coming in?:)



Sorry, come again?:blink:

[Jaric]

YOU cannot stop Curtis Painter. Only Curtis Painter can stop Curtis Painter.

[Jaric]

Sorry, come again?:blink:
wrong dyke.

[cka203]

Does he wear wooden clogs and put his thumb on the dyke to stop the water from coming in?:)

Sorry, come again?:blink:

ROFL See the effect Painter has on people? ROFL

[Jaric]

That's a GUY?!?!?! :blink:
No. That's a MAN.

[tehmackdaddy]

Sorry, come again?:blink:

That's what she said.

[tommysgirl]

He looks like the girl who walked the dogs on King of Queens.ROFL

[midgar8784]

He looks like the girl who walked the dogs on King of Queens.ROFL

.

[Jaric]

He looks like the girl who walked the dogs on King of Queens.ROFL
Curtis Painter has a lot of fingers in a lot of different pies.

[Claremonster]

Does he wear wooden clogs and put his thumb on the dyke to stop the water from coming in?:)

I stuck my finger in a dyke once.




Once. :coffee:

[Jaric]

I stuck my finger in a dyke once.




Once. :coffee:
Did you get it back?

[Claremonster]

Did you get it back?

No. I think she wears it on a chain now, like <strike>my dad</strike>some weird freaky Viet Nam vet. :coffee:

[Jaric]

No. I think she wears it on a chain now, like <ATRIKE>my dad</STRIKE>some weird freaky Viet Nam vet. :coffee:
Well at least it was just a finger and not your...well...you know.

[Claremonster]

Well at least it was just a finger and not your...well...you know.

I'd never stick that in a dyke, no matter how much I felt compelled to save the town. :coffee:

[PatrietteAz]

I stuck my finger in a dyke once.




Once. :coffee:

ROFL Riff baby Riff.

[Claremonster]

ROFL Riff baby Riff.

Much like the little Dutch boy, I too was on my way to school when I was passing a dyke and noticed a slight leak. I knew I would be in trouble if I were late to school, but hey, it was a dyke! And it was leaking! So, I did what any heroic young man would do - I stuck my finger in it, stopped the leak, and was able to stem the flow until help could arrive.

Sure, I saved the town from the leaking dyke, but I'll be damned if my finger wasn't all funny-smelling and pruned up afterwards. Never again, I vowed. Town or no town, it just wasn't worth it.

[PumpDee]

http://cdn.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/Painter-Headline.jpg (http://cdn.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/Painter-Headline_0.jpg)

TAMPA—Colts quarterback Curtis Painter says he is fully prepared for his first career NFL start tonight against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as he has spent the week making sure his DVR was set to record all the television programs he would usually watch while on the sidelines.
“I’m ready,” Painter assured reporters as the team concluded their final practice. “Got my DVR all set to record How I Met Your Mother and American Chopper.”
While Painter’s game preparation for his previous two seasons in Indianapolis involved doing as little as possible without the coaches catching on, his routine changed this week as injuries to Peyton Manning and Kerry Collins forced him into service.
“We play a fair share of games on Sunday and Monday night,” said Painter. “Unfortunately, that’s when all the good TV is on. So I’d usually watch them on a TV our video guy set up behind the bench. This week, obviously, I can’t do that. No problem though, I made some adjustments to my DVR and think I’ll be fine. But if I come back to the sideline after throwing an interception and one of the backups or special teams guys ruins what happens on Mike & Molly, God help me, I will lose it.”

[cka203]

http://cdn.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/Painter-Headline.jpg (http://cdn.tauntr.com/sites/default/files/Painter-Headline_0.jpg)

TAMPA—Colts quarterback Curtis Painter says he is fully prepared for his first career NFL start tonight against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers as he has spent the week making sure his DVR was set to record all the television programs he would usually watch while on the sidelines.
“I’m ready,” Painter assured reporters as the team concluded their final practice. “Got my DVR all set to record How I Met Your Mother and American Chopper.”
While Painter’s game preparation for his previous two seasons in Indianapolis involved doing as little as possible without the coaches catching on, his routine changed this week as injuries to Peyton Manning and Kerry Collins forced him into service.
“We play a fair share of games on Sunday and Monday night,” said Painter. “Unfortunately, that’s when all the good TV is on. So I’d usually watch them on a TV our video guy set up behind the bench. This week, obviously, I can’t do that. No problem though, I made some adjustments to my DVR and think I’ll be fine. But if I come back to the sideline after throwing an interception and one of the backups or special teams guys ruins what happens on Mike & Molly, God help me, I will lose it.”

:LOL: ROFL :thumb:

That is freakin awesome!

[Beaglebay]

The new face of the franchise :facepalm:


Kurt Cobain is ALIVE!!!!

[Claremonster]

Kurt Cobain is ALIVE!!!!

:LOL: ROFL :LOL: ROFL :LOL:


http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w222/laurancotter/kurt_cobain_seattle.jpg


:coffee:

[MAYHEM]

Will the Colts go 13-3? :ohnoez:

[Jaric]

Will the Colts go 13-3? :ohnoez:
16-3 son. 16-3.

[midgar8784]

16-3 son. 16-3.

man, can you imagine the train wreck that would cause if painter came in took them to a superbowl win? Holy cow, its almost worth it.

[Jaric]

man, can you imagine the train wreck that would cause if painter came in took them to a superbowl win? Holy cow, its almost worth it.
I agree. Totally worth it.

[midgar8784]

I agree. Totally worth it.


Split right down the middle....thats what the colts fan base would be.

[Jaric]

Split right down the middle....thats what the colts fan base would be.
If Painter takes us on his back to a superbowl there is no decision for me.

Trade Manning for whatever you can get for him and don't look back.

[midgar8784]

If Painter takes us on his back to a superbowl there is no decision for me.

Trade Manning for whatever you can get for him and don't look back.

Well he could not do it on his back....but...He is still going to need a bit of help from the team.

[MAYHEM]

16-3 boys. 16-3.

FYP#MDSTYLE #POWWww

[ProvidenceColts]

Painter is more opportunistic than Collins.

Collins, inevitably, would just go 3-and-out just about every possession. He'd throw it straight it into coverage, after staring the receiver down, and it'd be an incomplete pass on just about every attempt. There was never any hope.

Painter, on the other hand, may occasionally make a completion that has a couple more yards. But he also may throw an interception.

With Painter, it's like gambling, it could go good or very bad. With Collins, you're assured mediocrity.

I'll take Painter, but it's still not going to be pretty.

[ProvidenceColts]

man, can you imagine the train wreck that would cause if painter came in took them to a superbowl win? Holy cow, its almost worth it.

At that point, the apocalypse would be upon us.

The Colts' QB situation would be the least of our worries.

[PatsRUs]

Painter is more opportunistic than Collins.

Collins, inevitably, would just go 3-and-out just about every possession. He'd throw it straight it into coverage, after staring the receiver down, and it'd be an incomplete pass on just about every attempt. There was never any hope.

Painter, on the other hand, may occasionally make a completion that has a couple more yards. But he also may throw an interception.

With Painter, it's like gambling, it could go good or very bad. With Collins, you're assured mediocrity.

I'll take Painter, but it's still not going to be pretty.

His hair is pretty...

[patriots pam]

Kurt Cobain is ALIVE!!!!

HAHA! Yeah, that's totally it! :thumb: With a pudgy face like if Cobain was mainlining Twinkies instead of heroin. ROFL

Posted via Mobile Device

[TheBostonJay]

One of many 1st downs on the way to the promised land.

[PatrietteAz]

One of many 1st downs on the way to the promised land.

Jay please come to chat!!

[PatrietteAz]

Garcon needs to be fired. Go Curtis.;)

[Claremonster]

The Painter Era begins. :coffee:

[PatrietteAz]

The Painter Era begins. :coffee:

Yeh Monet is so yesterday.>)

[ParanoidPatriot]

Curtis looks not horrible.

[SkiptoMyLou]

He might be struggling, but he can be proud of the fact that he doesn't suck as much as Sanchez.

[BostonTim]

I THINK:


Peyton's career longest TD Pass = 86 Yards
Painter + 87 Yards???


WTF


Cheers, BostonTim

[CleatMarks]

Curtis Painter >>>>>>> Peyton Manning ;)

[SkiptoMyLou]

Peyton who?

[SkiptoMyLou]

I'm not either. The reaction was enough for me to know it was bad.

[patriots pam]

I missed it and I don't think they showed a replay. I'm sure it'll be on youtube PDQ if anyone wants to see it.
Posted via Mobile Device

[PatsRUs]

Peyton Manning was a system QB...

[Stranded Alien]

Painter makes the offensive line better :thumb:

[CleatMarks]

Well Colts, you may have your "Matt Cassel". He's throwing short and safe but he's building confidence and not making too many errors...you might have something to build on. Now if you could only fix that defense.

[TITAN126]

Paintball!

[Stranded Alien]

Painter gave the colts a chance,They just need a kicker .

[king of kings]

HE finally looked good. Just not good enough to win.

[Claremonster]

Manning: "Let's just say we had some protection problems out there, and may I also add that I'm happier'n a pig in mud that it isn't me getting sacked every other play?"

[Claremonster]

HE finally looked good. Just not good enough to win.

He only had this week as the starter in practice. I bet he'll get better as he gets more reps with the team as the starter.

But that defense? Sucks ass. Almost as bad as ours. :coffee:

[patriots pam]

Yeah, Painter did pretty OK I think, especially for his 1st start. Perhaps if the Colts FO hadn't tried the Collins "experiment" he'd be more up to speed now. :shrug:
Posted via Mobile Device

[Newbologist]

He only had this week as the starter in practice. I bet he'll get better as he gets more reps with the team as the starter.

But that defense? Sucks ass. Almost as bad as ours. :coffee:

I actually think there defense has done much better this year than ours has, they completely shut down pittsburghs running game last week and only really allowed one big play to Wallace. Tonight they kept the colts in the game early but in the end they were too gassed and too beat up to stop the bucs.

[Claremonster]

I actually think there defense has done much better this year than ours has, they completely shut down pittsburghs running game last week and only really allowed one big play to Wallace. Tonight they kept the colts in the game early but in the end they were too gassed and too beat up to stop the bucs.

Good point. They got gassed and blew a lead. Ours does that without getting gassed. ;)

[Coltsfan2theend]

So colts pats... Pats 100 colts 3.....if can't beast the browns or bucs.. Season is done. On painter front, he might win the colts a game our two by the end of the season, but wouldn't count on it.
Posted via Mobile Device

[midgar8784]

So colts pats... Pats 100 colts 3.....if can't beast the browns or bucs.. Season is done. On painter front, he might win the colts a game our two by the end of the season, but wouldn't count on it.
Posted via Mobile Device


He was not the reason the colts lost tonight, thats for sure. I guess the refs got tired of calling holding on the bucs and let them win.

[SkiptoMyLou]

I think people are harsh on Painter. I think that at times he looked lost, and completely abused by the rush (what's that?), but he bounced back nicely. He's not afraid to sling it, which I think is a good trait for a team that looks like they're a loss or two away from mailing it in. The team is definitely better off with Painter than Collins.

I think with some first team experience, Painter might even become another Cassel. He looks to have enough command over the offense. And even though he missed a lot of throws, I think he deserves a passing grade for adjusting to the constant pressure and blitzing. He has the team that can make him comfortable in the long run with Clark, Wayne and Garcon. I see the Colts winning 4-5 games if Painter continues to understand the system the Colts run.

[HSanders]

Yeah, Painter did pretty OK I think, especially for his 1st start. Perhaps if the Colts FO hadn't tried the Collins "experiment" he'd be more up to speed now. :shrug:
Posted via Mobile Device
Amazing what a difference it makes when a guy gets starter reps all week and
prepares to start vs. the getting the little scraps of reps he's been used
to for 3 years while getting tossed out there without the other 1st string skill players on
offense against teams with awesome defenses that are trying to make the
playoffs (ie Jets reg season game in 09).
.

[CleatMarks]

So colts pats... Pats 100 colts 3.....if can't beast the browns or bucs.. Season is done. On painter front, he might win the colts a game our two by the end of the season, but wouldn't count on it.
Posted via Mobile Device


He didn't look that bad. The passes were quick hits but he wasn't too bad considering the pressure he was getting. He might be able to make you guys look respectable.

Your defense is horrible though. It's almost as bad as ours. If you took out Freeny or Mathis, it would be worse.

[HSanders]

Think Colts are missing 3 starters on D for the year too. 2 LB (Brackett & someone else) and a S (Bullitt).

[Jaric]

Think Colts are missing 3 starters on D for the year too. 2 LB (Brackett & someone else) and a S (Bullitt).
Going to be worse next week. Foster's out for at least the year. Maybe forever. No word on Drake Nevis yet, but if he's out any significant amount of time we're in trouble.

Offensive line is going to be in trouble too if Ijalana and Costanzo miss significant time.

Meanwhile, Donald Brown, Anthony Gonzalez and Jerry Hughes continue to collect paychecks disproportionate to their contributions.

[Jaric]

Also, lets all not start sucking Curtis Painter off quite yet. He played better than he ever has before and was certainly better than Kerry Collins, yet we still only put up 17 points and he completed less than 50% of his passes.

Not a recipe for success.

[Muse]

Going to be worse next week. Foster's out for at least the year. Maybe forever. No word on Drake Nevis yet, but if he's out any significant amount of time we're in trouble.

Offensive line is going to be in trouble too if Ijalana and Costanzo miss significant time.

Meanwhile, Donald Brown, Anthony Gonzalez and Jerry Hughes continue to collect paychecks disproportionate to their contributions.

Also, lets all not start sucking Curtis Painter off quite yet. He played better than he ever has before and was certainly better than Kerry Collins, yet we still only put up 17 points and he completed less than 50% of his passes.

Not a recipe for success.

You really know how to flirt with Pat fans :thumb:

[Jaric]

You really know how to flirt with Pat fans :thumb:
RavenBHee

[Muse]

RavenBHee

:kisss:

[Coltsfan2theend]

Wonder if the Colts/Pats game is protected and if who ever protected it will unprotect it to get a better game.

[HSanders]

Also, lets all not start sucking Curtis Painter off quite yet. He played better than he ever has before and was certainly better than Kerry Collins, yet we still only put up 17 points and he completed less than 50% of his passes.

Not a recipe for success.
Polian probably fielded a call from Tannenbaum about a trade though. :D

[midgar8784]

Watching Painter last night, I was reminded back to Madden saying he was getting cold chills watching Brady move the ball down the field on the last drive in the superbowl.

[ProvidenceColts]

Anybody that claimed the Colts O-Line was good want to continue to claim that? :Poke:

If there were previously any doubts, they should be erased by now. Manning was able to cover up what was actually a terrible O-Line because of his quick release. Painter/Collins certainly don't have that and I'd find it hard to believe that anyone really does.

What's truly terrifying is that the offensive line is actually playing better right now than it did last year. :ohnoez:

[ProvidenceColts]

Think Colts are missing 3 starters on D for the year too. 2 LB (Brackett & someone else) and a S (Bullitt).

I personally believe that Ernie Sims was going to be the starter at LB this year, so that would be the other LB. Fili Moala, was also going to be a starter, but I actually like Nevis better. What previously appeared to be a blessing in disguise is now netural with Drake Nevis now being hurt. The depth is also gone, with Eric Foster suffering what was probably a career ending injury last night.

The Colts O-Line has also been decimated, and yet, it's still better than it was in 2010.

[CleatMarks]

Anybody that claimed the Colts O-Line was good want to continue to claim that? :Poke:

If there were previously any doubts, they should be erased by now. Manning was able to cover up what was actually a terrible O-Line because of his quick release. Painter/Collins certainly don't have that and I'd find it hard to believe that anyone really does.

What's truly terrifying is that the offensive line is actually playing better right now than it did last year. :ohnoez:

Nah, I think your o line is worse. I also think that you guys would have had problems this year Manning or no Manning. This is not a 14 - 2 team even with Manning. It's more like an 8 - 8 if you're lucky.

[midgar8784]

I personally believe that Ernie Sims was going to be the starter at LB this year, so that would be the other LB. Fili Moala, was also going to be a starter, but I actually like Nevis better. What previously appeared to be a blessing in disguise is now netural with Drake Nevis now being hurt. The depth is also gone, with Eric Foster suffering what was probably a career ending injury last night.

The Colts O-Line has also been decimated, and yet, it's still better than it was in 2010.

I do not think its better than 2010 at all. You have 3 new players on it this year. The team is worse this year almost everywhere not counting QB obviously. Even with manning this might be an 8-8 or 7-9 team.

[HSanders]

Donald Brown pisses ME off and I'm a Pats fan. Good gravy.
I do like Nevis though.
As bad as all these injuries suck (yes TommyD I am "fake classy" like that ;)) maybe the "good" part is that it isn't the worst year for PM to miss.

[Jaric]

Donald Brown pisses ME off and I'm a Pats fan. Good gravy.
I do like Nevis though.
As bad as all these injuries suck (yes TommyD I am "fake classy" like that ;)) maybe the "good" part is that it isn't the worst year for PM to miss.
Donald Brown still being employed is what pisses me off. It's his third year. So far he's failed to outplay a 4th round rookie and a guy who was in the UFL (rhodes) prior to being signed by the Colts.

If this was a position like WR or defensive linemen that legitimately required a year or two to learn, it would be one thing. But RB? No, if he hasn't earned carries at this point, he never will.

[midgar8784]

Donald Brown still being employed is what pisses me off. It's his third year. So far he's failed to outplay a 4th round rookie and a guy who was in the UFL (rhodes) prior to being signed by the Colts.

If this was a position like WR or defensive linemen that legitimately required a year or two to learn, it would be one thing. But RB? No, if he hasn't earned carries at this point, he never will.



Oh and not sure what they did before, but why does Wayne now decide to run his route into the defense instead away from it?

[Jaric]

Oh and not sure what they did before, but why does Wayne now decide to run his route into the defense instead away from it?
I'll answer that when you find out where Dallas Clark has been hiding.

Oh wait, nevermind, we're having him block all the time instead of going out for passes to act as a safety net for a young QB.

[Kid Leo]

Going to be worse next week. Foster's out for at least the year. Maybe forever. No word on Drake Nevis yet, but if he's out any significant amount of time we're in trouble.

Offensive line is going to be in trouble too if Ijalana and Costanzo miss significant time.

Meanwhile, Donald Brown, Anthony Gonzalez and Jerry Hughes continue to collect paychecks disproportionate to their contributions.

All first round Polian busts. Now throw in that Tony Ugoh was also a first round bust because dipshit Polian traded a first to pick him the second.
Polian needs to go ASAP the game has passed him. Irsay needs to get off the pipe, clear his head & make some changes right now or this team will be back to the 80's & early 90's.

[HSanders]

Donald Brown still being employed is what pisses me off. It's his third year. So far he's failed to outplay a 4th round rookie and a guy who was in the UFL (rhodes) prior to being signed by the Colts.

If this was a position like WR or defensive linemen that legitimately required a year or two to learn, it would be one thing. But RB? No, if he hasn't earned carries at this point, he never will.
No doubt...but I was one who was patient with Maroney. :whip2:

Another person who would piss me off would be Garcon, but for a different reason...the way Watson & Graham used to piss me off sometimes. Make a tough play, drop 4 passes I think I could have caught. He's jeckyll & hyde no matter who throws to him.

I have to say that Wayne did have a point on the way the offense runs with Painter vs. Collins. Much smoother looking even with Painter not being any kind of superstar.

[Jaric]

No doubt...but I was one who was patient with Maroney. :whip2:

Another person who would piss me off would be Garcon, but for a different reason...the way Watson & Graham used to piss me off sometimes. Make a tough play, drop 4 passes I think I could have caught. He's jeckyll & hyde no matter who throws to him.

I have to say that Wayne did have a point on the way the offense runs with Painter vs. Collins. Much smoother looking even with Painter not being any kind of superstar.
What's frustrating about Garcon, is that he's dangerous with the ball in his hands. Unforturnately, he tends to drop routine catches fairly routinely.

[Jaric]

All first round Polian busts. Now throw in that Tony Ugoh was also a first round bust because dipshit Polian traded a first to pick him the second.
Polian needs to go ASAP the game has passed him. Irsay needs to get off the pipe, clear his head & make some changes right now or this team will be back to the 80's & early 90's.
What concerns me the most about Polian, is that with him here, we will never be able to go after a coach like Fisher or Cowher because they aren't going to put up with being a figurehead.

[Beaglebay]

Also, lets all not start sucking Curtis Painter off quite yet. He played better than he ever has before and was certainly better than Kerry Collins, yet we still only put up 17 points and he completed less than 50% of his passes.
Not a recipe for success.


It is if Painter is aspiring to be Sanchez 2.0.

[ProvidenceColts]

I do not think its better than 2010 at all. You have 3 new players on it this year. The team is worse this year almost everywhere not counting QB obviously. Even with manning this might be an 8-8 or 7-9 team.

And you know what?

Anthony Castonzo, as a rookie, is a marked improvement over what Charlie Johnson was at LT last year. Hell, Ben Ijalana contributed a decent bit better than what Charlie Johnson gave last year.

Ryan Diem at RG is better than Diem at RT. Linkenbach, while still terrible, is better there. Mike Pollak actually had a decent game for the first time in his career at RG last week (this week, he of course, sucked).

Jeff Saturday seems to have gotten over some of his injury woes.

Joe Reitz is the best Guard the Colts have had since Lilja.

Yeah, they've got new guys on the line. They're either better than the crap they've had before, or in the case of Linkenbach/Diem, the switch causes them to go from atrocious to mediocre.

Nah, I think your o line is worse. I also think that you guys would have had problems this year Manning or no Manning. This is not a 14 - 2 team even with Manning. It's more like an 8 - 8 if you're lucky.

2010: #29 in the NFL in rushing yards per attempt.
2009: #30 in the NFL in rushing yards per attempt.
2008: #31 in the NFL in rushing yards per attempt.

They're somehow magically #13 in rushing yards per attempt right now. That's because the offensive line is better.

Yes, it's true.

Edit: The talent level of this team is by no means good. But I'd absolutely take it with Manning over what they had last year. And last year, they finished 10-6.

[ProvidenceColts]

Oh and not sure what they did before, but why does Wayne now decide to run his route into the defense instead away from it?

Although Reggie Wayne is a huge fan of Painter's, they really, really seem to struggle with being on the same page.

[midgar8784]

And you know what?

Anthony Castonzo, as a rookie, is a marked improvement over what Charlie Johnson was at LT last year. Hell, Ben Ijalana contributed a decent bit better than what Charlie Johnson gave last year.

Ryan Diem at RG is better than Diem at RT. Linkenbach, while still terrible, is better there. Mike Pollak actually had a decent game for the first time in his career at RG last week (this week, he of course, sucked).

Jeff Saturday seems to have gotten over some of his injury woes.

Joe Reitz is the best Guard the Colts have had since Lilja.

Yeah, they've got new guys on the line. They're either better than the crap they've had before, or in the case of Linkenbach/Diem, the switch causes them to go from atrocious to mediocre.



2010: #29 in the NFL in rushing yards per attempt.
2009: #30 in the NFL in rushing yards per attempt.
2008: #31 in the NFL in rushing yards per attempt.

They're somehow magically #13 in rushing yards per attempt right now. That's because the offensive line is better.

Yes, it's true.

Edit: The talent level of this team is by no means good. But I'd absolutely take it with Manning over what they had last year. And last year, they finished 10-6.

You might be 13th in rushing because your Qb is not checking out of every run play anymore. Your defense and your oline were better last year. Manning this year on this team would probably be 8-8 at best.

[ProvidenceColts]

You might be 13th in rushing because your Qb is not checking out of every run play anymore. Your defense and your oline were better last year. Manning this year on this team would probably be 8-8 at best.

You're delusional.

This year, the Colts have had 81 attempts, but have netted 332 yards for a 4.1 yards per carry average.

Through four games last year, the Colts had 94 rushing attempts, but only netted 302 yards for a 3.2 yards per carry average.

The Colts have had a 139:81 ratio as far as pass-rush attempts so far this year. Last year, through four games, the Colts had had 172:94 pass-rush attempt ratio.

To simplify, 37% of the Colts' plays so far have been runs this year, and through four games in 2010, the Colts had had 35% of their plays being runs.

There's also the fact that teams are playing the run MUCH, MUCH more emphasis on the run than they ever would have against Manning.And for fear that I haven't placed enough emphasis, I'm going to say this again, teams are stacking up more against the run than they ever would against Manning.

There's no other explanation. Yeah, Delone Carter is a decent #2 back, but that's not explaining the large rushing yardage discrepancy.

The Offensive Line is playing better. It also still sucks. That's the truth, yo.

[Maxjax]

I'll answer that when you find out where Dallas Clark has been hiding.

He's been hiding on my $#*@#$* fantasy roster, that's where.

[Jaric]

He's been hiding on my $#*@#$* fantasy roster, that's where.
Next to Reggie Wayne.

[midgar8784]

You're delusional.

This year, the Colts have had 81 attempts, but have netted 332 yards for a 4.1 yards per carry average.

Through four games last year, the Colts had 94 rushing attempts, but only netted 302 yards for a 3.2 yards per carry average.

The Colts have had a 139:81 ratio as far as pass-rush attempts so far this year. Last year, through four games, the Colts had had 172:94 pass-rush attempt ratio.

To simplify, 37% of the Colts' plays so far have been runs this year, and through four games in 2010, the Colts had had 35% of their plays being runs.

There's also the fact that teams are playing the run MUCH, MUCH more emphasis on the run than they ever would have against Manning.And for fear that I haven't placed enough emphasis, I'm going to say this again, teams are stacking up more against the run than they ever would against Manning.

There's no other explanation. Yeah, Delone Carter is a decent #2 back, but that's not explaining the large rushing yardage discrepancy.

The Offensive Line is playing better. It also still sucks. That's the truth, yo.



They might be playing better with the run, but not against the pass. They are not protecting well at all. There were times last night Painter had no time at all, there is a difference between rushing blocking and pass blocking, so they might be doing one better, but they are not pass blocking better.

[Maxjax]

Next to Reggie Wayne.

On the bench. (Finally.)

[midgar8784]

Although Reggie Wayne is a huge fan of Painter's, they really, really seem to struggle with being on the same page.

Well how long has Painter been taking snaps with the first team? A week?

[ProvidenceColts]

They might be playing better with the run, but not against the pass. They are not protecting well at all. There were times last night Painter had no time at all, there is a difference between rushing blocking and pass blocking, so they might be doing one better, but they are not pass blocking better.

I'm well aware that there's a difference between pass blocking/run blocking.

They look worse because Manning NEVER takes sacks. Sometimes that works out badly, as he'll throw an INT, but he has such a quick release, that he never gets sack. That's not a credit to the OL.

Here's the deal:

21 of Manning's 35 sacks from 2009-2010 were less than 2.5 seconds or 61%. New Orleans/Brees was next at 44% of their sacks being less than 2.5 seconds. Brady & the Patriots were ranked 18th at 18 of his 67 sacks coming within 2.5 seconds.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2011/under-pressure-short-it

So yeah, no. I'll explain it again:

1. The Offensive Line is better than last year.
2. The Offensive Line still sucks.
3. Peyton Manning made the Offensive Line look better.

It's that simple.

[ProvidenceColts]

Well how long has Painter been taking snaps with the first team? A week?

All of training camp, plus a week?

[midgar8784]

I'm well aware that there's a difference between pass blocking/run blocking.

They look worse because Manning NEVER takes sacks. Sometimes that works out badly, as he'll throw an INT, but he has such a quick release, that he never gets sack. That's not a credit to the OL.

Here's the deal:



http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2011/under-pressure-short-it

So yeah, no. I'll explain it again:

1. The Offensive Line is better than last year.
2. The Offensive Line still sucks.
3. Peyton Manning made the Offensive Line look better.

It's that simple.



Not sure about those stats considering from 2009 and 2010 the pats did not take 67 sacks. For it to work that throwing in under 2.5 seconds thing.....you better have receivers that can get open quick, its not all about the QB. Also, some Qb's are better at moving around the pocket to buy time, so that stat is kinda misleading. What I do know, is that this Brady-time you guys like to talk about...the one year Brady was not back there, this team lead the league in sacks taken. As far as the colts oline, they look worse than they did last year. manning or no manning. They are not blocking well in the pass. Also looking at your link, if you go to the other page it has the pct of sacks taken that took longer than 3 seconds. brady is at 1.58%......

[midgar8784]

All of training camp, plus a week?

Training camp was only 2 weeks and that was 4 weeks ago, for the past 5 weeks, Collins has been taking first team snaps.

[tehmackdaddy]

Not sure about those stats considering from 2009 and 2010 the pats did not take 67 sacks. For it to work that throwing in under 2.5 seconds thing.....you better have receivers that can get open quick, its not all about the QB. Also, some Qb's are better at moving around the pocket to buy time, so that stat is kinda misleading. What I do know, is that this Brady-time you guys like to talk about...the one year Brady was not back there, this team lead the league in sacks taken. As far as the colts oline, they look worse than they did last year. manning or no manning. They are not blocking well in the pass.

His three points are correct.

[Oswlek]

Not sure about those stats considering from 2009 and 2010 the pats did not take 67 sacks. For it to work that throwing in under 2.5 seconds thing.....you better have receivers that can get open quick, its not all about the QB. Also, some Qb's are better at moving around the pocket to buy time, so that stat is kinda misleading. What I do know, is that this Brady-time you guys like to talk about...the one year Brady was not back there, this team lead the league in sacks taken. As far as the colts oline, they look worse than they did last year. manning or no manning. They are not blocking well in the pass.

They look worse than they did last year?

I've seen high school OLs that looked better than Indy last year, I don't know what games you were watching.

[midgar8784]

His three points are correct.

The pats did not take 67 sacks from the 2nd week of 2009 till 2011, so no, that is not correct.

[midgar8784]

They look worse than they did last year?

I've seen high school OLs that looked better than Indy last year, I don't know what games you were watching.

What I was watching last night....How did the pass blocking get better...show me

[Oswlek]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/g0W2E-9Ly5w" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[ProvidenceColts]

Not sure about those stats considering from 2009 and 2010 the pats did not take 67 sacks. For it to work that throwing in under 2.5 seconds thing.....you better have receivers that can get open quick, its not all about the QB. Also, some Qb's are better at moving around the pocket to buy time, so that stat is kinda misleading. What I do know, is that this Brady-time you guys like to talk about...the one year Brady was not back there, this team lead the league in sacks taken. As far as the colts oline, they look worse than they did last year. manning or no manning. They are not blocking well in the pass. Also looking at your link, if you go to the other page it has the pct of sacks taken that took longer than 3 seconds. brady is at 1.58%......

My mistake, it was 12 of 46 sacks were <2.5 seconds. That still ranks #18. Colts still at #1.

Point remains the same.

[ProvidenceColts]

Also looking at your link, if you go to the other page it has the pct of sacks taken that took longer than 3 seconds. brady is at 1.58%......

Good for him.

Manning ranks at 0.32%. :archive:

[midgar8784]

My mistake, it was 12 of 46 sacks were <2.5 seconds. That still ranks #18. Colts still at #1.

Point remains the same.

Seems kinda random actually especially when the other one had the under 3 second thing, the pats were near the top for pct. Brady usually does not get sacked by the first rusher, it is very rare, he usually does make the first guy miss, he usually gets sacked after that. If he can see the quick rush coming, he is usually prepared for that.

[ProvidenceColts]

As far as the colts oline, they look worse than they did last year. manning or no manning.

No.

They don't.

They are not blocking well in the pass.

True, they still suck.

They're just improved from last year.

It's a very simple point.

[midgar8784]

Good for him.

Manning ranks at 0.32%. :archive:

Maybe manning needs to learn how to make the first guy miss better.:Poke: I mean what if you have a QB that just stands there when a quick rush comes in and he goes down, then you have another QB who makes the first rusher miss, the Qb that makes the rusher miss is worse and has a better line? Not sure thats true. It might be about how much the Qb moves in the pocket and does not auto sack himself. I have seen manning give up pretty quick at times.

[ProvidenceColts]

Seems kinda random actually especially when the other one had the under 3 second thing, the pats were near the top for pct. Brady usually does not get sacked by the first rusher, it is very rare, he usually does make the first guy miss, he usually gets sacked after that. If he can see the quick rush coming, he is usually prepared for that.

Brady was still #10 and Manning was still #1 by a large margin.

I really regret citing Brady in that stat. I know how you get. I was merely trying to point out the extent to which Manning has to get rid of the ball so quickly. I was NOT trying to make this a Brady/Manning debate.

Alas.

[midgar8784]

No.

They don't.



True, they still suck.

They're just improved from last year.

It's a very simple point.


How can you say they improved based on nothing? If manning was here, then it would be easier to judge it based on something. He is not and you have a guy who has not started a game until yesterday.

[ProvidenceColts]

Maybe manning needs to learn how to make the first guy miss better.:Poke: I mean what if you have a QB that just stands there when a quick rush comes in and he goes down, then you have another QB who makes the first rusher miss, the Qb that makes the rusher miss is worse and has a better line? Not sure thats true. It might be about how much the Qb moves in the pocket and does not auto sack himself. I have seen manning give up pretty quick at times.

:rolleyes:

Read that second damn link that you keep champion'ing as the gold standard that shows your boy so glowingly.

Manning still ranks #1 in that as well.

Jesus.

[ProvidenceColts]

How can you say they improved based on nothing? If manning was here, then it would be easier to judge it based on something. He is not and you have a guy who has not started a game until yesterday.

How can you say they declined based on nothing? If manning was here, then it would be easier to judge it based on something. He is not and you have a guy who has not started a game until yesterday.

That was easy.

[midgar8784]

Brady was still #10 and Manning was still #1 by a large margin.

I really regret citing Brady in that stat. I know how you get. I was merely trying to point out the extent to which Manning has to get rid of the ball so quickly. I was NOT trying to make this a Brady/Manning debate.

Alas.



Again, that means zero other than Manning takes sacks easier than Brady does. manning gives himself up pretty easy during a rush. Brady does not. If you have a guy that moves in the pocket well, he is going to have a higher pct, because he is not getting sacked by the first rusher.

[midgar8784]

:rolleyes:

Read that second damn link that you keep champion'ing as the gold standard that shows your boy so glowingly.

Manning still ranks #1 in that as well.

Jesus.


How is this a stat about the QB. lol. Like I said, If manning takes a sack quicker than other Qb's how does that put him in a good light?

[ProvidenceColts]

Again, that means zero other than Manning takes sacks easier than Brady does. manning gives himself up pretty easy during a rush. Brady does not. If you have a guy that moves in the pocket well, he is going to have a higher pct, because he is not getting sacked by the first rusher.

Yes, that's exactly what that means.

God, you're dense.

It means that Manning gets rid of the damn ball quicker than anyone.

Let me see if I understand your (lack of) logic:

Brady has been sacked more than Manning. Manning statistically gets rid of the ball quicker. Therefore, Manning gets sacked and gives up easier.

:spock:

For the LAST TIME, this ISN'T a Brady/Manning debate.

I am showing, to you, that the offensive line sucks and has sucked. You're continual attempts to turn this into a Brady/Manning debate doesn't change that.

[Jaric]

They might be playing better with the run, but not against the pass. They are not protecting well at all. There were times last night Painter had no time at all, there is a difference between rushing blocking and pass blocking, so they might be doing one better, but they are not pass blocking better.
Thing is midgar, they weren't really pass blocking last year either. It just didn't show up as much because Manning made up for it.

Our offensive line is actually playing better this year.

[ProvidenceColts]

How is this a stat about the QB. lol. Like I said, If manning takes a sack quicker than other Qb's how does that put him in a good light?

BECAUSE IT'S TALKING ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE BALL QUICKER

Jesus.

[ProvidenceColts]

Thing is midgar, they weren't really pass blocking last year either. It just didn't show up as much because Manning made up for it.

Our offensive line is actually playing better this year.

Which is precisely what the stat shows, that Manning gets rid of the damn thing out of necessity.

I don't know why I expected midgar to understand that.

[midgar8784]

Which is precisely what the stat shows, that Manning gets rid of the damn thing out of necessity.

I don't know why I expected midgar to understand that.



Or it means he takes a sack quicker because he is not making the first guy miss like I said. I am basing the olines of indy based on you have new players, and oh yeah, you lost the best oline coach in the NFL this year in mudd.

[midgar8784]

BECAUSE IT'S TALKING ABOUT GETTING RID OF THE BALL QUICKER

Jesus.

If a Qb has a speed rush coming, and QB A just takes the sack, and QB B makes him miss, runs to the right, and is sacked a second later.....you are saying QB A is getting rid of the ball faster?

[Jaric]

Or it means he takes a sack quicker because he is not making the first guy miss like I said. I am basing the olines of indy based on you have new players, and oh yeah, you lost the best oline coach in the NFL this year in mudd.
What are you expecting Manning to be out stiff arming defenders?

And actually midgar, we lost Mudd 3 years ago. I watch every game. I assure you, our offensive line is playing better now than it has the past 2 years prior.

[Jaric]

If a Qb has a speed rush coming, and QB A just takes the sack, and QB B makes him miss, runs to the right, and is sacked a second later.....you are saying QB A is getting rid of the ball faster?
No midgar.

Quick sack time + not too many sacks = a QB getting rid of the ball before the pressure gets there.

[midgar8784]

What are you expecting Manning to be out stiff arming defenders?

And actually midgar, we lost Mudd 3 years ago. I watch every game. I assure you, our offensive line is playing better now than it has the past 2 years prior.

No I am not expect Manning to be stiff arming defenders. I am saying that there are Qb's who take sacks faster than other QB's and its not always the line. Did not know that about Mudd, thought he left this year. It said he left at the end of 2009, so last year was the first year he was not there.

[Oswlek]

Midgar, there is a useful phrase in circumstances like this. It goes something like, "I was wrong."

If you are uncomfortable there are other acceptable versions, such as

"My bad."
"Oops, sorry."
"I guess I was mistaken."
"Mea culpa."

Just pick one of these and run with it. No need to thank me! :thumb:

[midgar8784]

No midgar.

Quick sack time + not too many sacks = a QB getting rid of the ball before the pressure gets there.

There are other ways of not getting sacked than just getting rid of the ball faster, is what I am saying. I do not see Manning break out of many sacks or move away from pressure that much, he pretty much either gets rid of it or takes the sack.

[midgar8784]

Midgar, there is a useful phrase in circumstances like this. It goes something like, "I was wrong."

If you are uncomfortable there are other acceptable versions, such as

"My bad."
"Oops, sorry."
"I guess I was mistaken."
"Mea culpa."

Just pick one of these and run with it. No need to thank me! :thumb:


What am I wrong about? There are other ways of not taking a sack other than getting rid of the ball fast, and if you do those other methods then this stat line that was shown is going to not show that. There are also things you can do before the snap to take care of protection as well. Just flinging the ball out is not always the best way to avoid a sack.

[midgar8784]

If we go by DVOA, which includes everything...

2009 in Pass protection the colts are ranked 1st

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2009

2010 In pass protection the colts are ranked 1st

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2010

2011 this year the pass protection rank is 22

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

So how is the Oline better this year?

[Dominated]

I thought this thread was about Curtis Painter

:coffee: :D

[Jaric]

I thought this thread was about Curtis Painter

:coffee: :D
It was until someone mentioned Manning which obviously is a challenge to a Brady/Manning debate.

[Jaric]

If we go by DVOA, which includes everything...

2009 in Pass protection the colts are ranked 1st

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2009

2010 In pass protection the colts are ranked 1st

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol2010

2011 this year the pass protection rank is 22

http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

So how is the Oline better this year?
ROFLROFLROFL

First???

ROFLROFLROFL

Oh midgar, you are too much.

[midgar8784]

It was until someone mentioned Manning which obviously is a challenge to a Brady/Manning debate.

You might want to check back to who mentioned anything about Brady there chief. Twas not me.

[midgar8784]

ROFLROFLROFL

First???

ROFLROFLROFL

Oh midgar, you are too much.

1 means first, or did they change the meaning? I am just showing the DVOA links, so you can tear those apart if you like.

[Jaric]

You might want to check back to who mentioned anything about Brady there chief. Twas not me.
Did I mention your name Midrex?

No I didn't. Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Now lets get back to hearing about how the Colts had the best offensive line in the league from 2009-2010.

[Jaric]

1 means first, or did they change the meaning? I am just showing the DVOA links, so you can tear those apart if you like.
There is no need.

Anyone who watched those games would be laughing right with me, and anyone who didn't wouldn't believe anything I posted.

So I'm just going to continue laughing.

ROFL

[midgar8784]

Did I mention your name Midrex?

No I didn't. Methinks thou doth protest too much.

Now lets get back to hearing about how the Colts had the best offensive line in the league from 2009-2010.


I did not say that.....football outsiders said that. I just posted the links. Like I said, there is a difference between run blocking and pass blocking and there are a lot of factors that go into pass blocking other than the oline, but that does go for all teams, not just the Indianapolis Mannings.

[tehmackdaddy]

The pats did not take 67 sacks from the 2nd week of 2009 till 2011, so no, that is not correct.

His three points:

1. The Offensive Line is better than last year.
2. The Offensive Line still sucks.
3. Peyton Manning made the Offensive Line look better.

...are correct.

[midgar8784]

His three points:



...are correct.


What is the line is better this year based on? i would hope Manning makes the line look better, as I would hope most starting QB's would. We saw how great the pats line was when brady left for a year....47 sacks. I am just saying there are other ways to avoid the sack than just lofting the ball to the defense. Eli is very fast at getting rid of the ball too.

[tehmackdaddy]

What am I wrong about?

You haven't watched every single Colts play for the last 'x' amount of years. Those who have are telling you something. Listen to them.

[midgar8784]

You haven't watched every single Colts play for the last 'x' amount of years. Those who have are telling you something. Listen to them.


So which year was the colts O line good, or has Manning always carried that as well? Like I said, I went by DVOA which I usually go to in order to see a difference that fans are trying to argue about that really has no stat line to look at. Like the Oline.

[Oswlek]

Here are some nice colorful alternatives to "wrong":

amiss, askew, astray, at fault, awry, bad, counterfactual, defective, erratic, erring, erroneous, fallacious, false, faulty, fluffed, goofed, in error, inaccurate, inexact, miscalculated, misconstrued, misfigured, misguided, mishandled, mistaken, not precise, not right, not working, off-target, on the wrong track, out, out of commission, out of line, out of order, perverse, rotten*, sophistical, specious, spurious, ungrounded, unsatisfactory, unsound, unsubstantial, untrue, wide

Enjoy!

[midgar8784]

Here are some nice colorful alternatives to "wrong":



Enjoy!

So what is wrong with the DVOA stats which I see thrown out all the time on here, but now you ignore oh great one?

[Oswlek]

So what is wrong with the DVOA stats which I see thrown out all the time on here, but now you ignore oh great one?

t-mack already addressed this:

You haven't watched every single Colts play for the last 'x' amount of years. Those who have are telling you something. Listen to them.

DVOA is great for team and unit ratings, the more they narrow down to individual players the more they are influenced by surrounding factors. This is why BJGE can be in the top 3 for DVOA and not be nearly that good in real life.

[midgar8784]

Ok.....no more arguing, but remember when I talked about QB's that give up quick sacks? This could be why. ROFL:Poke:


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/L0fqyML_Oeo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[midgar8784]

t-mack already addressed this:



DVOA is great for team and unit ratings, the more they narrow down to individual players the more they are influenced by surrounding factors. This is why BJGE can be in the top 3 for DVOA and not be nearly that good in real life.

....so we only use it when it fits our argument? Got it.:thumb:

[Oswlek]

....so we only use it when it fits our argument? Got it.:thumb:

:facepalm:

[midgar8784]

:facepalm:

No no...I am sure fans on a message board know more about how good or bad something is over a breakdown of statistical value...I will make sure I mention that if DVOA is brought up again at a later date. Until then..


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/L0fqyML_Oeo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Oswlek]

No no...I am sure fans on a message board know more about how good or bad something is over a breakdown of statistical value...I will make sure I mention that if DVOA is brought up again at a later date. Until then..


<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/L0fqyML_Oeo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Midgar, your response demonstrates that you haven't a clue what you are talking about, nor do you understand what anyone else is telling you. Every time I have an inkling of hope you are starting to get your head on straight, you have a disaster of a thread like this one.

It is time I learned my lesson. Enjoy your day.

[midgar8784]

Midgar, your response demonstrates that you haven't a clue what you are talking about. Every time I have an inkling of hope you are starting to get your head on straight, you have a disaster of a thread like this one.

It is time I learned my lesson. Enjoy your day.



It was a joke....I was said I was done arguing. Why do you feel like you have to insult me? Is this what we were talking about on personal attacks? Yes I have a clue what I am talking about. Yes Manning makes the oline better, so do more vet Qb's that are good, no the colts oline is not very good, do I think they are better or worse than last year? No idea. In the games I saw them last year was better than what I saw last night, was that Manning working magic? maybe. So keep your insults to yourself. And I still stand by my statement that some QB's are better at getting away from pressure than other QB's are....and unless you can come up with some witty little thing to show me that I am wrong, then your comment of I do not not know what I am talking about, really holds no water.

[Jaric]

So which year was the colts O line good, or has Manning always carried that as well? Like I said, I went by DVOA which I usually go to in order to see a difference that fans are trying to argue about that really has no stat line to look at. Like the Oline.
Go back to around the time Tarik Glenn was still playing.

[midgar8784]

Go back to around the time Tarik Glenn was still playing.

So the colts line has been bad since 2006? Whatever. Love my Manning he does it all.

[Jaric]

It was a joke....I was said I was done arguing. Why do you feel like you have to insult me? Is this what we were talking about on personal attacks? Yes I have a clue what I am talking about. Yes Manning makes the oline better, so do more vet Qb's that are good, no the colts oline is not very good, do I think they are better or worse than last year? No idea. In the games I saw them last year was better than what I saw last night, was that Manning working magic? maybe. So keep your insults to yourself. And I still stand by my statement that some QB's are better at getting away from pressure than other QB's are....and unless you can come up with some witty little thing to show me that I am wrong, then your comment of I do not not know what I am talking about, really holds no water.
Yet you link stats showing otherwise and get indigent when those who watch the games question them.

You're all over the place here. Why don't you go back, figure out what you want to ague and we can start fresh.

[midgar8784]

Yet you link stats showing otherwise and get indigent when those who watch the games question them.

You're all over the place here. Why don't you go back, figure out what you want to ague and we can start fresh.



what does it matter, you could have the most brick wall oline in football and you will find an excuse to say Manning makes them, so who cares. manning does it all. Love my manning. All other QB's have 20 seconds in the pocket, poor manning has to make due.

[Jaric]

So the colts line has been bad since 2006? Whatever. Love my Manning he does it all.
They've gotten progressively worse since Glenn left. Ask anyone who watches the games.

Why me telling you my offensive line sucks has your panties all in a bunch is beyond me (well, to be honest it isn't. I know you are just arguing this because if you admit the oline sucks then you also have to admit that Manning is the reason he isn't sacked much, which you will also somehow take as a slight against Tom Brady. This makes no logical sense of course, but you're going to do it anyway.)

[Jaric]

what does it matter, you could have the most brick wall oline in football and you will find an excuse to say Manning makes them, so who cares. manning does it all. Love my manning. All other QB's have 20 seconds in the pocket, poor manning has to make due.
No midgar. Not all QBs have 20 seconds to sit in the pocket.

Just Tom Brady.

:Poke:

[tommysgirl]

Brady's O Line < Mannings O Line :coffee:





:shrug:

[midgar8784]

No midgar. Not all QBs have 20 seconds to sit in the pocket.

Just Tom Brady.

:Poke:

Of course. Thats why he is good, cause the oline carries him. We could put any Qb back there and win and they would do just as good. Etc etc etc.

[midgar8784]

Brady's O Line < Mannings O Line :coffee:





:shrug:

I am sure nobody has said that. I just am a bit sick of hearing how the Pats oline is godly no matter who is playing and makes Brady look better than he is, and Manning has to hold off defenders with one hand as he passes to receivers who suck and who are all covered while his defense gives up 100 points a game and no coaches are on the sideline. There are many factors in protection, so of its Oline, some of its QB, some of its playcalling, etc.....unless its brady and Manning....then its all oline for Brady and all manning for the colts....Well the colts have had their chances to get Oline players, Connolly was not the great prospect that the pats just happen to be lucky enough to get. Waters did not have his door beat down by the colts trying to get him before the evil pats snagged him.

[Jaric]

I am sure nobody has said that. I just am a bit sick of hearing how the Pats oline is godly no matter who is playing and makes Brady look better than he is, and Manning has to hold off defenders with one hand as he passes to receivers who suck and who are all covered while his defense gives up 100 points a game and no coaches are on the sideline.
What other things no one has said are you sick of hearing?

[Jaric]

Brady's O Line < Mannings O Line :coffee:





:shrug:
Yes, but Curtis Painter's Oline > Manning's oline.

[midgar8784]

What other things no one has said are you sick of hearing?

I hear it all the time, are you kidding. I cannot listen to the radio or watch NFl network or read a story without hearing it. We get it....the oline for the pats no matter which players have come and gone are the greatest ever, well except in 2008 for some reason, I guess all those oline players are gone now and were replaced by more of the greatest Oline of all time when brady got back...amazing.

[midgar8784]

Yes, but Curtis Painter's Oline > Manning's oline.

Exactly, because that way we can say....wow look how bad these QB's are with a better oline and how great manning is with nobody blocking and oh yeah, thats why he had 17 ints....I understand the Indianapolis Mannings.

[Jaric]

I hear it all the time, are you kidding. I cannot listen to the radio or watch NFl network or read a story without hearing it. We get it....the oline for the pats no matter which players have come and gone are the greatest ever, well except in 2008 for some reason, I guess all those oline players are gone now and were replaced by more of the greatest Oline of all time when brady got back...amazing.
So like, did you not watch football in 2007?

[midgar8784]

They've gotten progressively worse since Glenn left. Ask anyone who watches the games.

Why me telling you my offensive line sucks has your panties all in a bunch is beyond me (well, to be honest it isn't. I know you are just arguing this because if you admit the oline sucks then you also have to admit that Manning is the reason he isn't sacked much, which you will also somehow take as a slight against Tom Brady. This makes no logical sense of course, but you're going to do it anyway.)

Not at all, you have to say the oline sucks because it makes Manning look better. I did not bring up brady in this thread, the colt fan did. So you can stop acting as though I just pulled that out of my ass.

[midgar8784]

So like, did you not watch football in 2007?

yeah of course all years with Brady on the team the Oline has been a hall of fame Oline, remarkably except 2008 when he didnt play. Damn the luck. I mean somehow....in 2007 with the greatest Oline ever....brady was not sacked much, but then the same Oline Players gave up the most sacks in the league the next year with a different QB......weird.

[Jaric]

Exactly, because that way we can say....wow look how bad these QB's are with a better oline and how great manning is with nobody blocking and oh yeah, thats why he had 17 ints....I understand the Indianapolis Mannings.
You've gone full retard here.

I want the offensive line to play better BECAUSE THAT GIVES US A BETTER CHANCE TO WIN GAMES.

Not to score some points in a meaningless debate about if Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning. I know your world revolves around forcing that issue into every thread like its' Ben Rothlisburger's fingers into a coed but it's impossible to discuss anything with you because of it.

[midgar8784]

You've gone full retard here.

I want the offensive line to play better BECAUSE THAT GIVES US A BETTER CHANCE TO WIN GAMES.

Not to score some points in a meaningless debate about if Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning. I know your world revolves around forcing that issue into every thread like its' Ben Rothlisburger's fingers into a coed but it's impossible to discuss anything with you because of it.



I.....did ....not.....bring....up.....that issue...the colt fan did. I said zero about the pats oline, their protection or anything else....I did not bring it up....he did. So point the finger elsewhere, because that is no point I ever made. You want to say Manning is better than Brady, cool enough, I could care less. Pats have a better team than the colts and Manning is better than Brady, I will take it. You guys can worship at the alter of Manning, give me the better team and the lesser QB. I dont care if Brady is a system QB, or if he would suck on any other team, or if the pats cheated for him because he sucks, or that he gets 8 seconds on every pass play and any Qb could just drop right in and do the same thing....cool, glad we have it and other teams dont...Yay for us.

[Jaric]

Not at all, you have to say the oline sucks because it makes Manning look better. I did not bring up brady in this thread, the colt fan did. So you can stop acting as though I just pulled that out of my ass.
No midgar, I say they suck, because they suck.

[midgar8784]

No midgar, I say they suck, because they suck.

Of course, whole team sucks except Manning. He carries them on his might back, when he comes back you guys will go 16-0 and win superbowl after superbowl. While we will just run QB's in and out of this miracle system and play the same.

[MAYHEM]

We lose 2 yards on a QB sneak.

That's how awesome our line has been the past 5 years.

[midgar8784]

We lose a yard on a QB sneak.

That's how awesome our line has been the past 5 years.


5 years now? Wow. How did the amazing manning manage to pull it out the way he did by having to block guys himself. Yes we know its always the teams fault never peyton's fault....etc etc. Put Peyton on the panthers they win 7 superbowls....and on and on and on.

[MAYHEM]

5 years now? Wow. How did the amazing manning manage to pull it out the way he did by having to block guys himself. Yes we know its always the teams fault never peyton's fault....etc etc. Put Peyton on the panthers they win 7 superbowls....and on and on and on.
Its been a revolving door. If our line was good, we'da kept a few. Not bad at pass protection (if you are the greates QB ever), but by far the worst run blocking.

[midgar8784]

Its been a revolving door. If our line was good, we'da kept a few. Not bad at pass protection, by far the worst run blocking.

Now I do agree with you there. Like I said, pass blocking is different than run blocking. I have said that about the pats in the past who also have had a few hundred come and go on this oline. In fact I am flat stinking amazed this year that the run blocking has been good because half our line is not the same guys we had even last year starting.

[midgar8784]

Its been a revolving door. If our line was good, we'da kept a few. Not bad at pass protection (if you are the greates QB ever), but by far the worst run blocking.




You slipped an edit in on me...but I'm confused...Brady does not play for the colts, neither does Montana.:stirpot:

[MAYHEM]

Now I do agree with you there.

You slipped an edit in on me...

;)

[midgar8784]

;)

Ok, Mayhem got me off my soap box....I have to stop going to the ESPN message board and reading posts from there.:STFU:

[MAYHEM]

In fact I am flat stinking amazed this year that the run blocking has been good because half our line is not the same guys we had even last year starting.

...and only 1 TE. I thought last game would be pass heavy vs the raiders, but the Pats did well running. I think the Pats should re-sign Crumpler.

[ProvidenceColts]

Not at all, you have to say the oline sucks because it makes Manning look better. I did not bring up brady in this thread, the colt fan did. So you can stop acting as though I just pulled that out of my ass.

ROFL ROFL ROFL

I turned this into a Brady/Manning debate? You mean, me, as in I, ProvidenceColts? You're serious.

Ahhh middy, you are way too much.

Let me refresh your memory, there:

I posted this, as a way to show a frame of reference, as in this is what Brees and Brady deal with. I could've also included Rodgers and Rivers, but what can I say? I'm lazy. But here's what I said:

21 of Manning's 35 sacks from 2009-2010 were less than 2.5 seconds or 61%. New Orleans/Brees was next at 44% of their sacks being less than 2.5 seconds. Brady & the Patriots were ranked 18th at 18 of his 67 sacks coming within 2.5 seconds.

You proceeded to rant in rage about the 2008 season and how you hear people talk about that. We all know how you feel about the 2008 season, but I'll show you what you said:

Not sure about those stats considering from 2009 and 2010 the pats did not take 67 sacks. For it to work that throwing in under 2.5 seconds thing.....you better have receivers that can get open quick, its not all about the QB. Also, some Qb's are better at moving around the pocket to buy time, so that stat is kinda misleading. What I do know, is that this Brady-time you guys like to talk about...the one year Brady was not back there, this team lead the league in sacks taken. As far as the colts oline, they look worse than they did last year. manning or no manning. They are not blocking well in the pass. Also looking at your link, if you go to the other page it has the pct of sacks taken that took longer than 3 seconds. brady is at 1.58%......

And here's what I said, continuously:



I really regret citing Brady in that stat. I know how you get. I was merely trying to point out the extent to which Manning has to get rid of the ball so quickly. I was NOT trying to make this a Brady/Manning debate.

Alas.



For the LAST TIME, this ISN'T a Brady/Manning debate.

I am showing, to you, that the offensive line sucks and has sucked. You're continual attempts to turn this into a Brady/Manning debate doesn't change that.

Or, as Jaric summed it up quite well:

It was until someone mentioned Manning which obviously is a challenge to a Brady/Manning debate.


Jesus, dude. I get that you have a lot of pent up rage against sports talk radio for saying the things that you're so irate about hearing. I get that. And if you want to hijack threads on here, I'm not a mod and I don't care. I would just prefer that you not blame me when you inevitably hijack these threads. Man up and accept responsibility, you wanted to turn this into a Brady/Manning debate.

[TommyD420]

Jesus, dude. I get that you have a lot of pent up rage against sports talk radio for saying the things that you're so irate about hearing. I get that. And if you want to hijack threads on here, I'm not a mod and I don't care. I would just prefer that you not blame me when you inevitably hijack these threads. Man up and accept responsibility, you wanted to turn this into a Brady/Manning debate.

:coffee: :archive:

[midgar8784]

ROFL ROFL ROFL

I turned this into a Brady/Manning debate? You mean, me, as in I, ProvidenceColts? You're serious.

Ahhh middy, you are way too much.

Let me refresh your memory, there:

I posted this, as a way to show a frame of reference, as in this is what Brees and Brady deal with. I could've also included Rodgers and Rivers, but what can I say? I'm lazy. But here's what I said:



You proceeded to rant in rage about the 2008 season and how you hear people talk about that. We all know how you feel about the 2008 season, but I'll show you what you said:



And here's what I said, continuously:





Or, as Jaric summed it up quite well:




Jesus, dude. I get that you have a lot of pent up rage against sports talk radio for saying the things that you're so irate about hearing. I get that. And if you want to hijack threads on here, I'm not a mod and I don't care. I would just prefer that you not blame me when you inevitably hijack these threads. Man up and accept responsibility, you wanted to turn this into a Brady/Manning debate.



I was talking about the colts.....YOU....brought the pats into it....Oh...and there is no Brady/manning debate, that ended awhile back, we can now compare Manning to QB's like Eli adn Rivers, he fell back a notch.:stirpot:

[Jaric]

5 years now? Wow. How did the amazing manning manage to pull it out the way he did by having to block guys himself. Yes we know its always the teams fault never peyton's fault....etc etc. Put Peyton on the panthers they win 7 superbowls....and on and on and on.
Oh course he doesn't block them himself you cretin. No one said that. No one on espn radio or whatever the **** it is you listen to that riles you up so much, did either. You have created these phantom arguments like windmills to chase after. Mid Quixote.

He doesn't get sacked because he gets rid of the ball before the defense can get to him. Which is very quickly because our offensive line has sucked as of late.

That. Does. Not. Mean. Tom. Brady. Sucks. It means our offensive line sucks

I am not attempting to argue who is better. I am making a statement about something Manning does well and how it relates to my team. No more. No less. I cannot make this any clearer, so if you start ranting about nonsensical straw man arguments I'm going to put you on ignore.

[midgar8784]

Oh course he doesn't block them himself you cretin. No one said that. No one on espn radio or whatever the **** it is you listen to that riles you up so much, did either. You have created these phantom arguments like windmills to chase after. Mid Quixote.

He doesn't get sacked because he gets rid of the ball before the defense can get to him. Which is very quickly because our offensive line has sucked as of late.

That. Does. Not. Mean. Tom. Brady. Sucks. It means our offensive line sucks

I am not attempting to argue who is better. I am making a statement about something Manning does well and how it relates to my team. No more. No less. I cannot make this any clearer, so if you start ranting about nonsensical straw man arguments I'm going to put you on ignore.



ROFL Brady>Manning popcorn

[HSanders]

And actually midgar, we lost Mudd 3 years ago. I watch every game. I assure you, our offensive line is playing better now than it has the past 2 years prior.
Interesting how Philly's OL is now getting a ton of criticism for being poor now while yours has gotten a bit better. Maybe Mudd isn't all that anymore.

[ProvidenceColts]

I was talking about the colts.....YOU....brought the pats into it....Oh...and there is no Brady/manning debate, that ended awhile back, we can now compare Manning to QB's like Eli adn Rivers, he fell back a notch.:stirpot:

Me: Here's how the QB's of the NFL have gotten rid of the ball, as it relates to sack times...

Midgar: Brady is ranked...You're saying...Why I oughta...THIS MEANS WAR!!!!


Yes, I totally started it.

[Jaric]

Interesting how Philly's OL is now getting a ton of criticism for being poor now while yours has gotten a bit better. Maybe Mudd isn't all that anymore.
I haven't watched a single eagles game this year so it's hard to say.

[ProvidenceColts]

Interesting how Philly's OL is now getting a ton of criticism for being poor now while yours has gotten a bit better. Maybe Mudd isn't all that anymore.

I think it's a combination of that (and I do question if he was ever something truly great as a coach) and the question of how much have the Eagles really invested in their O-Line?

The Eagles right now are starting Kyle DeVan, who was cut by the Colts at the end of cuts. DeVan previously played, not for the actual Arena Football League, but the Arena Football Developmental League prior to the Colts. DeVan's replacement on the Colts looks better, but he was an Undrafted Free Agent in 2008 that didn't even play college football.

So yeah, I'd guess that you're probably right that Howard Mudd isn't some amazing coach (at least not at this point) but I'd also say that the Colts and Eagles have invested inadequate amounts of money/draft picks in their OL and what they have, have sucked (which is certainly the case with the Colts).

[Oswlek]

I haven't watched a single eagles game this year so it's hard to say.

They are positively dreadful.

[Jaric]

They are positively dreadful.
I might have to make an effort to catch that. I do enjoy watching the iggles suffer.

[Claremonster]

I haven't watched a single eagles game this year so it's hard to say.

Here's a quick synopsis of the Eagles:

*Vick throws TD*

*Vick gets hit*

*Vick gets hit*

*Ronnie Brown ****s up*

*Vick gets hit*

*Vick gets hit*

*Vick gets hit*

*Eagles Lose*

*Vick whines and/or gets bitchy with the media*

[midgar8784]

I am not sure how much of the eagles O line is the problem and how much it is very hard to pass block for a QB like vick. It is much easier to block for a Qb when you know here they are going to be. Vick is one of the worst QB's in the league at hanging on to the ball too long. Most of their offense is based around the big play, they do not really have quick outs and things like that. So its pretty much vick drops back, he waits if at that time there is not a big play down the field, he either gets hit, or he takes off.

[Jaric]

I am not sure how much of the eagles O line is the problem and how much it is very hard to pass block for a QB like vick. It is much easier to block for a Qb when you know here they are going to be. Vick is one of the worst QB's in the league at hanging on to the ball too long. Most of their offense is based around the big play, they do not really have quick outs and things like that. So its pretty much vick drops back, he waits if at that time there is not a big play down the field, he either gets hit, or he takes off.
Oh, so you're saying that the length of time a QB holds the ball corresponds to how often he gets hit???

:clap:

[midgar8784]

Me: Here's how the QB's of the NFL have gotten rid of the ball, as it relates to sack times...

Midgar: Brady is ranked...You're saying...Why I oughta...THIS MEANS WAR!!!!


Yes, I totally started it.

LOL, yeah thats what you did. It was more like...


You: Here is how great Manning is at getting rid of the ball and lookie there, the pats are all the way down at 18th. You even put up the wrong numbers the first go around and I had to correct you.


This is what you posted when anything about Brady was even mentioned...

"21 of Manning's 35 sacks from 2009-2010 were less than 2.5 seconds or 61%. New Orleans/Brees was next at 44% of their sacks being less than 2.5 seconds. Brady & the Patriots were ranked 18th at 18 of his 67 sacks coming within 2.5 seconds."

So lets not act as though randomly Brady's name just happen to be the one you brought up. Like I said you even had the number wrong.

[midgar8784]

Oh, so you're saying that the length of time a QB holds the ball corresponds to how often he gets hit???

:clap:

No, I said that Vick is not exactly a pocket QB, so its for an oline that is used to blocking for a pocket QB to suddenly try to find out where vick is all the time so they can try and block for him.

[Jaric]

LOL, yeah thats what you did. It was more like...


You: Here is how great Manning is at getting rid of the ball and lookie there, the pats are all the way down at 18th. You even put up the wrong numbers the first go around and I had to correct you.
Ummm no. That's not what he wrote at all.

Now, that's what you read, but that's because you have a brain disorder that makes you read every post, regardless of how benign, as an attack on Tom Brady.

Here is what PC actually posted.

I'm well aware that there's a difference between pass blocking/run blocking.

They look worse because Manning NEVER takes sacks. Sometimes that works out badly, as he'll throw an INT, but he has such a quick release, that he never gets sack. That's not a credit to the OL.

Here's the deal:



http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2011/under-pressure-short-it (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2011/under-pressure-short-it)

So yeah, no. I'll explain it again:

1. The Offensive Line is better than last year.
2. The Offensive Line still sucks.
3. Peyton Manning made the Offensive Line look better.

It's that simple.Show me where in here he says that Tom Brady sucks. Or in any way shape or form tries to make this into a "who is better" debate.

I'll save you the time. You can't. Because he didn't. He even spent the next 3 or 4 posts trying to explain that to you. Which was a waste of his time because once you latch onto something it's like a pitbull when their jaw locks.

[Jaric]

No, I said that Vick is not exactly a pocket QB, so its for an oline that is used to blocking for a pocket QB to suddenly try to find out where vick is all the time so they can try and block for him.
Dear God, I know you don't read other people's posts, but do you not even read your own?
I am not sure how much of the eagles O line is the problem and how much it is very hard to pass block for a QB like vick. It is much easier to block for a Qb when you know here they are going to be. Vick is one of the worst QB's in the league at hanging on to the ball too long. Most of their offense is based around the big play, they do not really have quick outs and things like that. So its pretty much vick drops back, he waits if at that time there is not a big play down the field, he either gets hit, or he takes off.
Did you see that? Hanging onto the ball too long. That has nothing to do with being a pocket passer or a mobile QB.

Now, I get that it contradicts what you've been feverishly arguing all thread, that a QB's release time effects how often they get hit, and that you probably didn't realize that in the rush to post whatever verbal vomit spewed from your disturbed brain. But for the love of God if you aren't going to read other people's post, at least read your own.

[HSanders]

Vick contributes mightily to his sacks mostly by sucking at reading defenses and blitzes. His OL sucks too, but the problem is both of theirs.

Form this Pats fan there's no argument whatsoever that PM makes his OL look better. I'm all for hating on the man but the truth is the truth. And part is his release time and part is that he has figured out presnap exactly where he is going to throw which makes his release time even quicker. How often do you see him, even with time, stand there and hold the ball? Almost never. It's the first guy...boom it's gone a majority of the time.

[Jaric]

Be careful, you might end up as Mid Quixote's new windmill to chase after.

[midgar8784]

Ummm no. That's not what he wrote at all.

Now, that's what you read, but that's because you have a brain disorder that makes you read every post, regardless of how benign, as an attack on Tom Brady.

Here is what PC actually posted.

Show me where in here he says that Tom Brady sucks. Or in any way shape or form tries to make this into a "who is better" debate.

I'll save you the time. You can't. Because he didn't. He even spent the next 3 or 4 posts trying to explain that to you. Which was a waste of his time because once you latch onto something it's like a pitbull when their jaw locks.



I did not say he said Brady sucked. :shake: I just find it funny that he brings up the pats and brady in his argument about the colts and then says he did not bring up brady and the pats....I did not bring up the pats oline, brady, or anything about the pats....he did. If I had brought up Brady and the pats oline into the discussion, then I could see where this would be on me....I didnt. If I am talking about Something Brady did or something the pats offense did bad, and I bring Manning into the equation, then it would not be long before that discussion would come up. If you cannot discuss your oline without bringing up Brady and the pats...which he did...right here...

"21 of Manning's 35 sacks from 2009-2010 were less than 2.5 seconds or 61%. New Orleans/Brees was next at 44% of their sacks being less than 2.5 seconds. Brady & the Patriots were ranked 18th at 18 of his 67 sacks coming within 2.5 seconds."


then not sure what you expect.

[Claremonster]

Show me where in here he says that Tom Brady sucks. Or in any way shape or form tries to make this into a "who is better" debate.



Hmmmm...


I'm well aware That there's a difference between pass blOcking/run blocking.

They look worse because Manning NEVER takes sacks. Sometimes that works out badly, as he'll throw an INT, but he has such a quick release, that he never gets sack. That's not a credit to the OL.

Here's the deal:



http://www.footBalloutsideRs.com/under-pressure/2011/under-pressure-short-it

So yeAh, no. I'll explain it again:

1. The Offensive Line is better than last year.
2. The Offensive Line still sucks.
3. Peyton Manning made the Offensive Line look better.

It's that simple.






Me: Here's how the QB's of the NFL have gotten riD of the ball, as it relates to sack times...

Midgar: Brady is ranked...You're Saying...Why I oUghta...THIS MEANS WAR!!!!


Yes, I totally started it.






I think it's a Combination of that (and I do question if he was ever something truly great as a coach) and the question of how much have the Eagles really invested in their O-Line?

The Eagles right now are starting Kyle DeVan, who was cut by the ColtS at the end of cuts. DeVan previously played, not for the actual Arena Football League, but the Arena Football Developmental League prior to the Colts. DeVan's replacement on the Colts looks better, but he was an Undrafted Free Agent in 2008 that didn't even play college football.

So yeah, I'd guess that you're probably right that Howard Mudd isn't some amazing coach (at least not at this point) but I'd also say that the Colts and Eagles have invested inadequate amounts of money/draft picks in their OL and what they have, have sucked (which is certainly the case with the Colts).




:coffee:

[Jaric]

I did not say he said Brady sucked. :shake: I just find it funny that he brings up the pats and brady in his argument about the colts and then says he did not bring up brady and the pats....I did not bring up the pats oline, brady, or anything about the pats....he did. If I had brought up Brady and the pats oline into the discussion, then I could see where this would be on me....I didnt. If I am talking about Something Brady did or something the pats offense did bad, and I bring Manning into the equation, then it would not be long before that discussion would come up. If you cannot discuss your oline without bringing up Brady and the pats...which he did...right here...

"21 of Manning's 35 sacks from 2009-2010 were less than 2.5 seconds or 61%. New Orleans/Brees was next at 44% of their sacks being less than 2.5 seconds. Brady & the Patriots were ranked 18th at 18 of his 67 sacks coming within 2.5 seconds."


then not sure what you expect.
HE WAS USING THEM AS A POINT OF REFERENCE. NOT TO MAKE ANY SORT OF ARGUMENT ABOUT WHO IS BETTER.

Sweet Jesus I'd make that flash if I could.

[midgar8784]

Dear God, I know you don't read other people's posts, but do you not even read your own?

Did you see that? Hanging onto the ball too long. That has nothing to do with being a pocket passer or a mobile QB.

Now, I get that it contradicts what you've been feverishly arguing all thread, that a QB's release time effects how often they get hit, and that you probably didn't realize that in the rush to post whatever verbal vomit spewed from your disturbed brain. But for the love of God if you aren't going to read other people's post, at least read your own.



I am talking about Vick, why are you bringing up a conversation from last night? I gave my reasons why its hard to block for vick, he is not a pocket QB. He does not work out of the pocket like other QB's do. So the oline does not know where he is going to be most of the time, so they struggle in that department. He ends up holding on to the ball because they are a big play team who instead of chipping their way down the field, use the big play as the majority of their offense. Can we not talk about vick now without you having to bring up Manning and how great he is at getting rid of the ball?

[Jaric]

Hmmmm...

:coffee:
You got me. We've been exposed PC. Time to make a break for it before Midrex eats one of us.

[midgar8784]

HE WAS USING THEM AS A POINT OF REFERENCE. NOT TO MAKE ANY SORT OF ARGUMENT ABOUT WHO IS BETTER.

Sweet Jesus I'd make that flash if I could.

Oh ok....well then....lets talk about QB's and turning the ball over...I will use Manning as a point of reference...ROFL

[midgar8784]

You got me. We've been exposed PC. Time to make a break for it before Midrex eats one of us.

I have been actually joking about this since this stupid argument ended yesterday, I am not sure why its still eating you up. Its whatever, there are times when something is being talked about on here and it changes to something else...I am far over it....move on.

[Jaric]

http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/25/cap_chat_windmills_T1073.jpg

[Claremonster]

http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/25/cap_chat_windmills_T1073.jpg

http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/2232/tilt.gif

[ProvidenceColts]

LOL, yeah thats what you did. It was more like...


You: Here is how great Manning is at getting rid of the ball and lookie there, the pats are all the way down at 18th. You even put up the wrong numbers the first go around and I had to correct you.


This is what you posted when anything about Brady was even mentioned...

"21 of Manning's 35 sacks from 2009-2010 were less than 2.5 seconds or 61%. New Orleans/Brees was next at 44% of their sacks being less than 2.5 seconds. Brady & the Patriots were ranked 18th at 18 of his 67 sacks coming within 2.5 seconds."

So lets not act as though randomly Brady's name just happen to be the one you brought up. Like I said you even had the number wrong.

Wow, seriously?

Newsflash: It's pretty well known around here that you get incredibly combative and defensive when someone dares compare Manning and Brady. Like I (and Jaric has repeated for you) have said, I was not comparing anyone. I was merely using a frame of reference and like I said, I was truly going to include guys like Rodgers and Rivers as well, I just got lazy.

Let me repeat something else for you:

Nobody wants to argue Brady/Manning with you. Nobody. Get that through your head and stop hijacking threads to have that argument.




Hmmmm...










:coffee:

How did you....

You got me. We've been exposed PC. Time to make a break for it before Midrex eats one of us.

LET'S GO!

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jpiOILpg1Pg" allowfullscreen="" width="420" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

[midgar8784]

Wow, seriously?

Newsflash: It's pretty well known around here that you get incredibly combative and defensive when someone dares compare Manning and Brady. Like I (and Jaric has repeated for you) have said, I was not comparing anyone. I was merely using a frame of reference and like I said, I was truly going to include guys like Rodgers and Rivers as well, I just got lazy.

Let me repeat something else for you:

Nobody wants to argue Brady/Manning with you. Nobody. Get that through your head and stop hijacking threads to have that argument.






How did you....



LET'S GO!

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jpiOILpg1Pg" allowfullscreen="" width="420" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>



Hijacking threads? YOU BROUGHT IT UP!!! I didnt. You were not comparing anyone....Yeah you did. lol