Boston Red Sox Talk

[DarrylStingley]

Maybe there's a thread for Red Sox talk but I don't see it and I think a new catch all thread is probably warranted. If nothing else, it will help push the many Celtics threads down a bit.

A few points to get us started:

- Sox are now back within two games of Evil and Tampa. And closing fast.

- Remember when Youks said that those two teams would eventually fall to earth? It almost sounded crazy then as they were playing so well. Smart guy, that Youks.

- Ortiz with another bomb last night. Sorry but I don't see this as a blip. The guy has been mashing pretty much non-stop since the beginning of May and my view is that once he stopped pressing and trying to avoid an early season slump, the true guy came out.

- Might this guy Nava be an actual player? I know, I know, it's only been a few games, but I'm starting to be less surprised when he reaches. He's got a big swing...sort of like Pedroia.

- Is it time to give Theo some kudos for Marco Scutaro? The guy makes most of the plays at SS, including some eye poppers, and is hitting well in the lead off spot. Nice player.

- People of course have the right to boo Manny and Manny did some stuff to warrant displeasure...but I can't see booing the guy. He was fun, goofy, a ridiculously good hitter and of course was part of the team that beat the snot out of the MFYs and then won another title in 07. I loved watching him play for the Sox and he's not on the MFYs. Cheer the dude.

- Good to see Okajima with several decent outings in a row.

- Another great move by Theo: Beltre. Who knew he could hit this well?

- Note to Brian Cashman: Joba Sucks! Keep running that piece of trash out there.

- Lackey has not been great but he does battle and stay in games. I have to believe that at some point, he's going to look like an ace. Please!

- The Sox really don't miss Jacoby all that much. Scott Boras, take note.

- Very pumped to see what young Felix has tonight.

[tehrick67]

While I would cheer Manny, lets not forget, he threw an old man down.

thats just plain pussy to me.

The other stuff didnt bother me much,as thats who he was before he got here.

[DarrylStingley]

While I would cheer Manny, lets not forget, he threw an old man down.

thats just plain pussy to me.

The other stuff didnt bother me much,as thats who he was before he got here.
Yeah, that was bad. And I bet there are about 100 other things that Manny did that we don't know about that royally sucked, too.

But I root for these guys not because they're salt of the earth types. I root for the laundry and Manny helped make my laundry win.

And he was probably the best all around hitter I have ever seen live. Alice is up there but she's a twat.

[tehrick67]

Yeah, that was bad. And I bet there are about 100 other things that Manny did that we don't know about that royally sucked, too.

But I root for these guys not because they're salt of the earth types. I root for the laundry and Manny helped make my laundry win.

And he was probably the best all around hitter I have ever seen live. Alice is up there but she's a twat.

Agreed. I happen to know the guys daughter, so I guess it makes it a little personal to me.

[tommysgirl]

While I would cheer Manny, lets not forget, he threw an old man down.

thats just plain pussy to me.

The other stuff didnt bother me much,as thats who he was before he got here.
So did Pedro. And I still laugh my ass off every time I see it.


Don't judge me.

[midgar8784]

So did Pedro. And I still laugh my ass off every time I see it.


Don't judge me.

I know about the Pedro throwing the old man down, when did manny do it? I had no issue with Pedro doing it, the old man ran at him, what was he supposed to do?

[mikiemo83]

So did Pedro. And I still laugh my ass off every time I see it.


Don't judge me.yeah but Zim was an old man in a Yankee uniform...like I want to hit Frank from Glouster sometime

[midgar8784]

yeah but Zim was an old man in a Yankee uniform...like I want to hit Frank from Glouster sometime

Like Chris Rock said, ain't nobody above an ass wooping.

[mikiemo83]

Like Chris Rock said, ain't nobody above an ass wooping.and even more important that the B!tch who tossed him down had a Jheri curl going on

[babalu87]

While I would cheer Manny, lets not forget, he threw an old man down.

thats just plain pussy to me.

The other stuff didnt bother me much,as thats who he was before he got here.

When Manny asks for tickets (at that stage in his career) you get him tickets, I dont give a shit if he asks for 20 at 6:55 on gameday

Get him the tickets

[O.Z.O.]

- Ortiz with another bomb last night. Sorry but I don't see this as a blip. The guy has been mashing pretty much non-stop since the beginning of May and my view is that once he stopped pressing and trying to avoid an early season slump, the true guy came out.


- Is it time to give Theo some kudos for Marco Scutaro? The guy makes most of the plays at SS, including some eye poppers, and is hitting well in the lead off spot. Nice player.

- Another great move by Theo: Beltre. Who knew he could hit this well?



I remember arguing with another forum member for an extended period of time about these 3. I'm starting to get tired of being right all the time.

[3 Point Stan]

I like the Red Sox.

GO RED SOX!

[Dwight Schrute]

- Lackey has not been great but he does battle and stay in games. I have to believe that at some point, he's going to look like an ace. Please!

Personally, I never viewed Lackey as an ace.

He was just the best pitcher the Angels had, and elevated to #1 by default. Never got the feel the guy was a true stopper/horse.

In fact, I used to take great pleasure watching him implode in Fenway.

[3 Point Stan]

I liked both the Beltre and Scutaro signings from day one.

I think everyone was biting their nails on Ortiz - including Ortiz. I was definitely advocating to sit him in the beginning of May but man has he silenced the critics. I'm happy about this but I know for a fact the organization was seriously considering a time-table for when they would consider releasing him from the team.

As for Lackey, completely agree he's not a full-fledged ace but he's definitely a top-of-the-rotation guy. I still like this signing because no matter what the offense does, good pitching keeps you in contention. He will pitch better than he has to this point.

[Grumpy_Bottom]

What a wonderful way to see the game end. Thanʞs for the memories Manny.

[tehrick67]

When Manny asks for tickets (at that stage in his career) you get him tickets, I dont give a shit if he asks for 20 at 6:55 on gameday

Get him the tickets

Manny treated alot of the little people behind the scenes like shit.

Pushing an old man not named Don Zimmer is a pussy move.

[BostonTim]

Maybe there's a thread for Red Sox talk but I don't see it and I think a new catch all thread is probably warranted.

Absolutely no offense intended here, DS. But while I always love your "random sports thoughts" type threads, and will always open any thread you start, I'm a huge objecter to ("hater of" might be more accurate) "official type" threads - like a "Red Sox thread". I can (sort of) see it when you have a single patriots forum and you want to say to DS and me - ok- you can have one long disconnected RED SOX THREAD, but keep it all there = don't go messing up the Pats forum with Red Sox stuff all over the place.

But when you do that, you can't attract viewers and focused discussion at all. It becomes huge, disconnectred and lacking in flow, and you can never know what's going on without going in and wandering through everything you missed since your last visit (which in my case would likely be months).

So now that we have a forum dedicated to other sports, I personally would invite as many seperate and distinct focused Sox threads as anyone cares to start.

I raised this question with the mods in a slightly different manner right at the start of the big reorganization and was led to understnd that we are free to do the multi-topic approacn.

Cheers, BostonTim

[DarrylStingley]

Absolutely no offense intended here, DS. But while I always love your "random sports thoughts" type threads, and will always open any thread you start, I'm a huge objecter to ("hater of" might be more accurate) "official type" threads - like a "Red Sox thread". I can (sort of) see it when you have a single patriots forum and you want to say to DS and me - ok- you can have one long disconnected RED SOX THREAD, but keep it all there = don't go messing up the Pats forum with Red Sox stuff all over the place.

But when you do that, you can't attract viewers and focused discussion at all. It becomes huge, disconnectred and lacking in flow, and you can never know what's going on without going in and wandering through everything you missed since your last visit (which in my case would likely be months).

So now that we have a forum dedicated to other sports, I personally would invite as many seperate and distinct focused Sox threads as anyone cares to start.

I raised this question with the mods in a slightly different manner right at the start of the big reorganization and was led to understnd that we are free to do the multi-topic approacn.

Cheers, BostonTim

Yeah, good point. I wanted a catch all Sox thread in the aftermath of those bozos, rapists and llamas having beaten the Celtics with a healthy assist from the incompetent officials. I wanted to see a place where folks could talk Sox.

But if you or anyone else wants to lock this thread or divide it into subtopics, no problem with me.

My random Sox thoughts for this morning are:

1. Terry should have taken Wakes out in the 7th after the lead off double. Wakes is not young and I had the sense he was tiring when Manure took him over the wall in the 6h. It all worked out, but Tito's slow on the draw cost Wakefield a win and the team an easier go of it.

2. To be clear, I'm not giving Terry the treatment that some posters give Doc. I like Tito. He's just slow with his vets on the trigger at times.

3. This Nava keeps hitting. Do we have something here?

4. Some idiot Sox fans will dog Drew after this latest tweak. "If he was tougher and really wanted it more....you, know, if he was more or Dirt Dog, he'd play through this...." To be clear, if you are reading this and nodding your head in agreement with that sentiment, you are a mental midget.

5. Ortiz continues to show he is back, in full force. Though it would be nice to see him back in the 7th inning onward. I suspect that he's pressing in those situations, just as he was pressing in April.

6. Who didn't call the Pedroia walk off hit yesterday? My mother was visiting and watching the game with me and I told her that when Pedey got two strikes, he was going to shorten his swing and go to RF. Sure enough. What a lovable player that guy is?

7. Time to sweep these MOFOs. DS will be in the house and will bark loudly at any Dodgers fans with Lakers attire. There will be profanity. No C words or F words. But they will hear it from me. Dodgers attire -- cool. Lakers attire -- total douche bag.

8. Speaking of that, don't you just love seeing the total asshole in the Phillies t-shirt sitting behind the Sox bench after Nava hit the Granny? Youks is going nuts on Nava and you see this Philly dork looking all glum...classic. He's thinking "I'm going to rub the Flyers comeback in the Boston fans faces." Tough to do when your team is getting hammered, eh?

9. Sox with 4 errors on Saturday. Yikes. Did they party too much with the Dodgers players on Friday night?

10. When Orsillo went out, I developed a new appreciation for him and his relationship with Remy. Rish and Friede were AWFUL. Totally bland. No insights. And Remy was so quiet around them. The DO/Remy giggles sometimes bothers me but I'll take that all day long vs what we got without Don in the booth.

11. Seeing Manure soak in the Sox walk celebration was sweet. So was the nasty hook Bard laid on him on Friday night. I would have cheered him loudly had I been there on Friday night. I feel differently now. He's chosen to not acknowledge the crowd at all, refused to make eye contact with fans and has been a dickhead in general. Plus, I don't like it when ANYONE takes Wake over the wall. F Manny. I think I shall boo him tonight.

Go Sox, Die MFYS, lose Rays.....and have a great Red Sox day and Fathers Day, PP people.

[Muse]

Yeah, good point. I wanted a catch all Sox thread in the aftermath of those bozos, rapists and llamas having beaten the Celtics with a healthy assist from the incompetent officials. I wanted to see a place where folks could talk Sox.

But if you or anyone else wants to lock this thread or divide it into subtopics, no problem with me.

My random Sox thoughts for this morning are:

1. Terry should have taken Wakes out in the 7th after the lead off double. Wakes is not young and I had the sense he was tiring when Manure took him over the wall in the 6h. It all worked out, but Tito's slow on the draw cost Wakefield a win and the team an easier go of it.

2. To be clear, I'm not giving Terry the treatment that some posters give Doc. I like Tito. He's just slow with his vets on the trigger at times.

3. This Nava keeps hitting. Do we have something here?

4. Some idiot Sox fans will dog Drew after this latest tweak. "If he was tougher and really wanted it more....you, know, if he was more or Dirt Dog, he'd play through this...." To be clear, if you are reading this and nodding your head in agreement with that sentiment, you are a mental midget.

5. Ortiz continues to show he is back, in full force. Though it would be nice to see him back in the 7th inning onward. I suspect that he's pressing in those situations, just as he was pressing in April.

6. Who didn't call the Pedroia walk off hit yesterday? My mother was visiting and watching the game with me and I told her that when Pedey got two strikes, he was going to shorten his swing and go to RF. Sure enough. What a lovable player that guy is?

7. Time to sweep these MOFOs. DS will be in the house and will bark loudly at any Dodgers fans with Lakers attire. There will be profanity. No C words or F words. But they will hear it from me. Dodgers attire -- cool. Lakers attire -- total douche bag.

8. Speaking of that, don't you just love seeing the total asshole in the Phillies t-shirt sitting behind the Sox bench after Nava hit the Granny? Youks is going nuts on Nava and you see this Philly dork looking all glum...classic. He's thinking "I'm going to rub the Flyers comeback in the Boston fans faces." Tough to do when your team is getting hammered, eh?

9. Sox with 4 errors on Saturday. Yikes. Did they party too much with the Dodgers players on Friday night?

10. When Orsillo went out, I developed a new appreciation for him and his relationship with Remy. Rish and Friede were AWFUL. Totally bland. No insights. And Remy was so quiet around them. The DO/Remy giggles sometimes bothers me but I'll take that all day long vs what we got without Don in the booth.

11. Seeing Manure soak in the Sox walk celebration was sweet. So was the nasty hook Bard laid on him on Friday night. I would have cheered him loudly had I been there on Friday night. I feel differently now. He's chosen to not acknowledge the crowd at all, refused to make eye contact with fans and has been a dickhead in general. Plus, I don't like it when ANYONE takes Wake over the wall. F Manny. I think I shall boo him tonight.

Go Sox, Die MFYS, lose Rays.....and have a great Red Sox day and Fathers Day, PP people.
you know my feelings on Drew by now

[DarrylStingley]

you know my feelings on Drew by now

No offense Musie, but I don't remember them.

I'm not saying that people have go out and buy Drew jerseys and adopt him as their favorite player. For me, Drew will never be in the Youks, Ortiz, Pedroia and Beckett category -- though I do have a Drew jersey, almost in protest of all the moronic talk I hear about Drew. My point is that I think whining that he wasn't tough enough and should have been playing thru the hammy tweak he suffered on Friday night is mind numbingly stupid.

Just one man's opinion.

[Muse]

No offense Musie, but I don't remember them.

I'm not saying that people have go out and buy Drew jerseys and adopt him as their favorite player. For me, Drew will never be in the Youks, Ortiz, Pedroia and Beckett category -- though I do have a Drew jersey, almost in protest of all the moronic talk I hear about Drew. My point is that I think whining that he wasn't tough enough and should have been playing thru the hammy tweak he suffered on Friday night is mind numbingly stupid.

Just one man's opinion.

I been backing JD up since he came to the Red Sox among the critics, I have had alot of people tell me I was nuts but I have back him up and still do I am so glad he with us and hope he stays with us a while
I have defended him here on PP and Soxplanet and will continue to do so



But anyhoo I guess you missed the many posts on that

[BostonTim]

I been backing JD up since he came to the Red Sox among the critics, I have had alot of people tell me I was nuts but I have back him up and still do I am so glad he with us and hope he stays with us a while
I have defended him here on PP and Soxplanet and will continue to do so



But anyhoo I guess you missed the many posts on thatHe probably didn't miss them. If's he's old enough to have the DS handle, there's a good chance that, like me, he's old enough to be suffering from chronic CRS syndrome. I have a near impossible time remembering people's position on stuff here, too (except of course for Steve-o's position).


Cheers, BostonTim

[DarrylStingley]

He probably didn't miss them. If's he's old enough to have the DS handle, there's a good chance that, like me, he's old enough to be suffering from chronic CRS syndrome. I have a near impossible time remembering people's position on stuff here, too (except of course for Steve-o's position).


Cheers, BostonTim
I would say that posts that make perfect sense -- like Musie's take on Drew -- stand out less in my mind than posts that seem to be utterly ridiculous.

Said differently, I don't remember people's stances unless there is something about them that is really unusual.

When, for example, I read ANYONE say that Tony Dungy is not a total piece of shit and that he should not be exposed as a gay hating, phony, attention grabbing, opportunistic bag of horse manure, that tends to stick with me. Musie stating the truth about JD Drew...less so.

[tehrick67]

On the radio this a.m. they talked about how down in Ft. Myers the Jimmy fund would bring out cancer kids for a meet & greet with the Sox players, it was held out in left field buy Manny refused to go...8 years in a row.

I'm sorry, but telling people they shouldn't boo this asshole is crap.

[DarrylStingley]

Confession: I booed Manny last night.

I was planning on cheering him but the combination of him seeming to be indifferent to the Boston fans over the weekend (no tip of the hat or acknowledgement in any way), growing anger about July, 2008 and the fact that he plays for another team that was in a close game with the Sox lead me to join the chorus.

And you know what? I feel good about it. I cheered him LOUDLY as a member of the Sox. He is that no longer, at his choosing. So F him.

[TheBostonJay]

First at-bat. Cheer.

After that, he's the enemy.

[Mr. Happy Sock]

Fvck Manny.

Not enough bad things can happen to him.

POS got 160 Million from the Red Sox and the way he acted was like a 2 year old who had their toy taken away.

Assaults old people. Ignored kids with cancer. Fought teammates over their intensity to win. Dogged it repeatedly. Dragged ass and knowingly tanked it to forced the Sox to trade him.

Fvck that piece of shit.

[DarrylStingley]

HS, even though I booed Manny on Sunday night, I can't go nearly that far. Dude helped bring me more joy than I ever had in sports (except maybe when Judas Vinatieri nailed that FG in New Orleans). No Manny, and we're still listening to those meatheads chant "19-18" and "see you in October."

Unrelated: Seeing AJ Burnett shit all over himself and quarrel with Posada in the first inning last night was all kinds of awesome.

[mikiemo83]

Fvck Manny.

Not enough bad things can happen to him.

POS got 160 Million from the Red Sox and the way he acted was like a 2 year old who had their toy taken away.

Assaults old people. Ignored kids with cancer. Fought teammates over their intensity to win. Dogged it repeatedly. Dragged ass and knowingly tanked it to forced the Sox to trade him.

Fvck that piece of shit.so much is good about this post I do not know where to start


I will just say.....Yeah F HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tehrick67]

Fvck Manny.

Not enough bad things can happen to him.

POS got 160 Million from the Red Sox and the way he acted was like a 2 year old who had their toy taken away.

Assaults old people. Ignored kids with cancer. Fought teammates over their intensity to win. Dogged it repeatedly. Dragged ass and knowingly tanked it to forced the Sox to trade him.

Fvck that piece of shit.

He also treated the clubhouse workers like shit, and didnt tip them like is customary.

His teammates had to tip them for him.

[DarrylStingley]

The level of hostility, and the willingness to ignore the good stuff, amazes me, brothers.

I disagreed with the paternalistic attitude of the guys on Comcast's Sunday Night Show but, in the end, they had a point:

Few of us booed Manny in July, 2008. We knew all of the things -- or virtually all of them -- that we know now. Lack of hustle, hitting an old man, wanting out of Boston, being a bad teammate. None of that is new information.

But now, when Manny is a Dodger, we choose to boo him and post how much we hate him.

Hell, I root for the laundry as much as anyone, but isn't it just a little odd that our level of vitrol is about 100x higher now when the only change is that Manny plays for another team? And I believe that some people here were Manny Haters last July and this isn't directed at anyone in particular.

By the way, while I tend to agree with the Comcast guys, I really resented their tone and their attitude that fans who boo Manny now and didn't before are total hypocrites. Again, I get their point and think it's worth considering. But don't tell me how to feel. This is emotional, after all.

And one more thing. They neglected one aspect of Manny's Douchery and maybe some here are impacted by this. That is, Manny's repeated comments that he hated playing for the Sox and the 8 years were miserable for him REALLY sticks in my craw. First, it strikes me as total BS. He sure looked happy a lot of the time. Second, the Boston fans showed Manny so much love. For him to say it all sucked is so craven, so uncool.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble....

[tehrick67]

Many of the media knew of Mannys bullshit, alot of wich went un-reported.

I'm not a hater, I just dont like to be told who I can boo, and who I cant.

Lots of fans tired of his nonsene before he was traded.

[mikiemo83]

I am pretty sure I was for trading Manny in 2008 so I proudly say F_HIM

[tehrick67]

I am pretty sure I was for trading Manny in 2008 so I proudly say F_HIM

The notion that I have to cheer him, or I'm a hypocrite is silly...

[O.Z.O.]

June 22- 1/2 game out of first. Yankee fans are shitting their pants. O.Z.O. Jr. went to school today intending on unloading on the ones he goes to school with. Going to be a great day.

[tehrick67]

O.Z.O. Jr. went to school today intending on unloading on the ones he goes to school with. Going to be a great day.

I guess the apple doesnt fall far from the treeROFL

[O.Z.O.]

I guess the apple doesnt fall far from the treeROFL

he's got a gift. He takes pride in his ability to talk trash, really good at it on the field too. Says he wants to be as good at it as Bird was.

[Mr. Happy Sock]

The level of hostility, and the willingness to ignore the good stuff, amazes me, brothers.

I disagreed with the paternalistic attitude of the guys on Comcast's Sunday Night Show but, in the end, they had a point:

Few of us booed Manny in July, 2008. We knew all of the things -- or virtually all of them -- that we know now. Lack of hustle, hitting an old man, wanting out of Boston, being a bad teammate. None of that is new information.

But now, when Manny is a Dodger, we choose to boo him and post how much we hate him.

Hell, I root for the laundry as much as anyone, but isn't it just a little odd that our level of vitrol is about 100x higher now when the only change is that Manny plays for another team? And I believe that some people here were Manny Haters last July and this isn't directed at anyone in particular.

By the way, while I tend to agree with the Comcast guys, I really resented their tone and their attitude that fans who boo Manny now and didn't before are total hypocrites. Again, I get their point and think it's worth considering. But don't tell me how to feel. This is emotional, after all.

And one more thing. They neglected one aspect of Manny's Douchery and maybe some here are impacted by this. That is, Manny's repeated comments that he hated playing for the Sox and the 8 years were miserable for him REALLY sticks in my craw. First, it strikes me as total BS. He sure looked happy a lot of the time. Second, the Boston fans showed Manny so much love. For him to say it all sucked is so craven, so uncool.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble....

FWIW I was booing Manny when he was still here at the end after he had shown how much of a truly self-centered asshole he was. There's a world of a difference in cheering for everyone else who left for money. Manny HAD the money....He was just being a douchebag

[jaychamp]

The level of hostility, and the willingness to ignore the good stuff, amazes me, brothers.

I disagreed with the paternalistic attitude of the guys on Comcast's Sunday Night Show but, in the end, they had a point:

Few of us booed Manny in July, 2008. We knew all of the things -- or virtually all of them -- that we know now. Lack of hustle, hitting an old man, wanting out of Boston, being a bad teammate. None of that is new information.

But now, when Manny is a Dodger, we choose to boo him and post how much we hate him.

Hell, I root for the laundry as much as anyone, but isn't it just a little odd that our level of vitrol is about 100x higher now when the only change is that Manny plays for another team? And I believe that some people here were Manny Haters last July and this isn't directed at anyone in particular.

By the way, while I tend to agree with the Comcast guys, I really resented their tone and their attitude that fans who boo Manny now and didn't before are total hypocrites. Again, I get their point and think it's worth considering. But don't tell me how to feel. This is emotional, after all.

And one more thing. They neglected one aspect of Manny's Douchery and maybe some here are impacted by this. That is, Manny's repeated comments that he hated playing for the Sox and the 8 years were miserable for him REALLY sticks in my craw. First, it strikes me as total BS. He sure looked happy a lot of the time. Second, the Boston fans showed Manny so much love. For him to say it all sucked is so craven, so uncool.

Anyway, sorry for the ramble....
All the other stuff doesn't matter, if he didn't quit completely on the team and force himself out the way he did he would have gotten a standing ovation his 1st at-bat all weekend. Everyone had accepted who Manny was(for the most part), but how things ended here crossed the line for most. If he was on some shitty rebuilding Red Sox team people might have actually forgave him but this was a championship potential club. Even as well as Bay played he could have been the difference, especially in the Rays series. Helping a team win 2 championships doesn't give you a free pass to sabotage another.

Good point about his feelings towards the Sox, that certainly didn't help matters.

[3 Point Stan]

So how 'bout them RED SOX?!!!

[mikiemo83]

So how 'bout them RED SOX?!!!http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/169196/johnson1.jpg

[3 Point Stan]

http://cdn2.sbnation.com/imported_assets/169196/johnson1.jpg

^^^
Like Gladiator movies.

[Mr. Happy Sock]

All the other stuff doesn't matter, if he didn't quit completely on the team and force himself out the way he did he would have gotten a standing ovation his 1st at-bat all weekend. Everyone had accepted who Manny was(for the most part), but how things ended here crossed the line for most. If he was on some shitty rebuilding Red Sox team people might have actually forgave him but this was a championship potential club. Even as well as Bay played he could have been the difference, especially in the Rays series. Helping a team win 2 championships doesn't give you a free pass to sabotage another.

Good point about his feelings towards the Sox, that certainly didn't help matters.

Bill Russell.

[jaychamp]

Bill Russell.
Before my time

[Mr. Happy Sock]

Before my time

"Bill Russell" is the be-all end-all end to any conversation because I am, in essense saying "I completely agree with you 100%"...I am too lazy to dig up the thread, but it isn't too far back where a sports writer wrote a great article on this.

It's another way of saying "This"

[jaychamp]

"Bill Russell" is the be-all end-all end to any conversation because I am, in essense saying "I completely agree with you 100%"...I am too lazy to dig up the thread, but it isn't too far back where a sports writer wrote a great article on this.

It's another way of saying "This"

:thumb:

[Mr. Happy Sock]

:thumb:

Here ya go...

http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=56382&highlight=bill+russell

[tehrick67]

Drew might be headed to the DL?

Shocker..

[TheBostonJay]

Score 6 off Ubaldo and lose..

To Giambi...

:suicide:

Effin Papelbon.

[DarrylStingley]

Paps...not good.

[O.Z.O.]

Score 6 off Ubaldo and lose..

To Giambi...

:suicide:

Effin Papelbon.


they should move his ass now while he still has value. Minnesota is going to need a closer if they have serious championship aspirations, seems like a good landing place for him. Paps is signed to a one year deal and I HIGHLY doubt he will be back next year. Bard is the heir apparent, I say why not give it to him now?

[3 Point Stan]

Tampa won today.
Texas is on the hottest streak they'll be on all year (and have won 10 in a row).

If not for the above 2 facts, the Sox would have the 2nd best record in all of MLB. Their biggest needed heading to the trade deadline is arguably relief pitching. They'd like to have TWO Josh Bards - they're not looking to move Papelbon.

[O.Z.O.]

Tampa won today.
Texas is on the hottest streak they'll be on all year (and have won 10 in a row).

If not for the above 2 facts, the Sox would have the 2nd best record in all of MLB. Their biggest needed heading to the trade deadline is arguably relief pitching. They'd like to have TWO Josh Bards - they're not looking to move Papelbon.

Texas is good, don't short change them. They played the Sox even up for the WC until September last year.

Don't be so sure that they won't move Paplebon under the right circumstances. He's walking after this year.

[DarrylStingley]

Texas is good, don't short change them. They played the Sox even up for the WC until September last year.

Don't be so sure that they won't move Paplebon under the right circumstances. He's walking after this year.

I tend to doubt that OZO. The Sox don't have a lot of reliable pen arms. Even with Paps' recent implosion, he's still likely their second best guy out there. Who comes up if they move Paps? Robert Manuel?

He's been frustrating and he probably will walk, but I don't see them getting a ton for him and I do see the pen getting worse as a whole if he goes.

Now if he keeps getting lit up and blowing saves, the calculus changes.

[3 Point Stan]

The only way I could see them moving Paps is for a .900+ OPS outfielder and no one really comes to mind. Also, you don't see top closers often being traded from contending teams to non-contending teams at the deadlines. Those trades happen in the off-season.

Also, the Sox won't trade him for middle-relief because, quite honestly, that would be insane. So that means to trade Paps, they'd pretty much be looking for prospects. Teams who are among the top 5 teams in baseball record-wise don't trade top 10 closers for prospects at the July deadline. They just don't.

[KontradictioN]

I can't believe we drilled Ubaldo yesterday only to see that scumlord Giambi take it deep to win the game. Papelbon's gotta get his head on straight.

[mikiemo83]

Texas is good, don't short change them. They played the Sox even up for the WC until September last year.

Don't be so sure that they won't move Paplebon under the right circumstances. He's walking after this year.

no he is not...he will go to arbitration and get 12.5 million but walking he will not do

now he may be shown the door and traded during the winter 2010/spring 2011to someone looking to sign him long term but he will not walk after the season - Theo will pick up the rights to arbitration and trade them for a bag of balls before getting nothing in return.


Paps will not be Non-tendered

[O.Z.O.]

no he is not...he will go to arbitration and get 12.5 million but walking he will not do

now he may be shown the door and traded during the winter 2010/spring 2011to someone looking to sign him long term but he will not walk after the season - Theo will pick up the rights to arbitration and trade them for a bag of balls before getting nothing in return.
Paps will not be Non-tendered

What was that one year deal he just signed this past offseason? Thought he went through arbitration then . Anyway, there is NO WAY the Sox will give him anything remotely near 12.5M with 5 cost controlled years of Bard waiting in the wings. No. Way.

[DarrylStingley]

Prediction: Paps gets moved by the July 31 deadline.

Having re-analyzed this, I think my boy OZO is right.

[tehrick67]

My guess is they will let Paps go, and take the draft picks, they love draft picks..

[mikiemo83]

What was that one year deal he just signed this past offseason? Thought he went through arbitration then . Anyway, there is NO WAY the Sox will give him anything remotely near 12.5M with 5 cost controlled years of Bard waiting in the wings. No. Way.no they will not and that is why he will be moved next winter meetings and not allowed to walk for nothing

Prediction: Paps gets moved by the July 31 deadline.while I would not mind him moving on, because I beleive in Bard, the re-organization of the BP will weeken it too much. You do not have a set up man to step in to replace Bard - if MDC was still on his early roll they may have thought about it but this is not a case of addition by subtrraction

[sonsofkraftybob]

Not sure Papelbon is traded...

I think all 32 teams have a batting practice pitcher already

[DarrylStingley]

We shall see....and Mikie's argument for him not being moved is very good. But I say he gets moved.

[O.Z.O.]

while I would not mind him moving on, because I beleive in Bard, the re-organization of the BP will weeken it too much. You do not have a set up man to step in to replace Bard - if MDC was still on his early roll they may have thought about it but this is not a case of addition by subtrraction

A Paplebon trade will bring back top-level talent, in spite of his inconsistency this year. Be fairly easy to bring another bullpen arm back. There's also enough depth on the 40 man roster to make some moves to bolster the pen. Maybe Kelly gets a look out there.

I'm not overly concerned as I trust Theo enough to not leave the pen depleted if he does move Paps.

[O.Z.O.]

We shall see....and Mikie's argument for him not being moved is very good. But I say he gets moved.

Honestly, I was surprised that he broke camp with the Sox this year.

[mikiemo83]

A Paplebon trade will bring back top-level talent, in spite of his inconsistency this year. Be fairly easy to bring another bullpen arm back. There's also enough depth on the 40 man roster to make some moves to bolster the pen. Maybe Kelly gets a look out there.

I'm not overly concerned as I trust Theo enough to not leave the pen depleted if he does move Paps.Kelly is not ready to leap up to full time work -yet - and BP help is all hit or miss, the hardest position on the whole team to fill consistently is the 7/8th inning guys - the good ones are poor team closers.

[O.Z.O.]

Kelly is not ready to leap up to full time work -yet - and BP help is all hit or miss, the hardest position on the whole team to fill consistently is the 7/8th inning guys - the good ones are poor team closers.

wouldn't be any worse then what Paps is currently giving them.

[mikiemo83]

wouldn't be any worse then what Paps is currently giving them.are you sure about that?

or is this all a reaction to the past two games?

[O.Z.O.]

are you sure about that?

or is this all a reaction to the past two games?

I'm not that kind of fan. :harumph: I understand the difference between slumps and trends. Paps has been consistently under-performing all year. With a few notable exceptions, ML closers have a life expectancy similar to NFL running backs. I think Paps falls into the general masses and is nearing the end of his effectiveness as a front-line closer.

[tehrick67]

Paps has been consistently under-performing all year. With a few notable exceptions, ML closers have a life expectancy similar to NFL running backs. I think Paps falls into the general masses and is nearing the end of his effectiveness as a front-line closer.

Thats why I'm not sure how much you can get for him.

Especially since he's going to get expensive for whoever trades for him.

What contenders are in need of a closer who'd be willing to giveup alot, and pay him?

Chicago was mentioned on the radio as needing a closer.

[mikiemo83]

I'm not that kind of fan. :harumph: I understand the difference between slumps and trends. Paps has been consistently under-performing all year. With a few notable exceptions, ML closers have a life expectancy similar to NFL running backs. I think Paps falls into the general masses and is nearing the end of his effectiveness as a front-line closer.I understand you are not but maybe the questioning you have been doing all along is creating a greater reaction that is being fueled by the wagon jumpers :shrug:

I want to move him for the reason you have stated, the short life span of closers but also because he just seems like a D-Head at times. His Hillbilly act is growing tired

[mikiemo83]

Thats why I'm not sure how much you can get for him.

Especially since he's going to get expensive for whoever trades for him.

What contenders are in need of a closer who'd be willing to giveup alot, and pay him?

Chicago was mentioned on the radio as needing a closer.add Phily if Lidge doesn't get his act straightened out

maybe St. Louis

[Dwight Schrute]

Chicago was mentioned on the radio as needing a closer.

Cubs or WS?

The Cubs would move for him in a second if they thought he put them over the edge.

Use that WS drought against them.

[O.Z.O.]

add Phily if Lidge doesn't get his act straightened out

maybe St. Louis

Lidge hasn't been the Phillies' problem this year. They're not scoring runs.

[mikiemo83]

Lidge hasn't been the Phillies' problem this year. They're not scoring runs.He hasn't been healthy

if he is still not up to closing, a 1/2 year deal for Paps looks good and then they can pick between the two next offseson

[tehrick67]

no they will not and that is why he will be moved next winter meetings and not allowed to walk for nothing



they would get 2 good draft picks, and the Sox love those.

[tehrick67]

Victor martinez to the DL, Pedroia to the DL, Bucholtz to miss his next start....yikes.

[3 Point Stan]

I heard today that Buccholz won't miss his next start.

[babalu87]

How the hell is this happening?

[mikiemo83]

How the hell is this happening?starting pitching, an amazing 8th inning set up guy and a closer, who despite the rants is still top 3 in the game


it allows the hitters to work the opposing pitchers, get into the pen and make something happen without stressing out over it because you know 4 runs is planty to win you a game

[babalu87]

starting pitching, an amazing 8th inning set up guy and a closer, who despite the rants is still top 3 in the game


it allows the hitters to work the opposing pitchers, get into the pen and make something happen without stressing out over it because you know 4 runs is planty to win you a game


They lead the league in OPS, thats the reason they are winning.

Beltre in a contract year helps too.

[mikiemo83]

They lead the league in OPS, thats the reason they are winning.

Beltre in a contract year helps too.Beltre on the Papi eye drops helps too

[babalu87]

Beltre on the Papi eye drops helps too

Could be teh bitaminz

Also, having two nuts is nothing to sneeze at either

[mikiemo83]

Could be teh bitaminz

Also, having two nuts is nothing to sneeze at either

maybe like Lowell he is allowed the extra shot of testosterone

thinking about that between our two third-basemen they only have 1 set of nuts

[mikiemo83]

I heard today that Buccholz won't miss his next start.well thanks to SB at Sox planet I think you heard wrong

Clay Buchholz, who strained his lower left hamstring running the bases in Saturday’s game, will not start as scheduled tomorrow night. But the Sox hope he will be ready to face the Rays Monday in Florida.

Buchholz played catch yesterday and said his leg felt good.

“When I step, I don’t even feel that anymore,’’ he said. “There’s more soreness from icing and getting a massage.’’

Francona said the team would have to make a roster move if Buchholz is unable to pitch by Tuesday, as that would be the next time the fifth spot in the rotation is needed.

Before then, Buchholz will throw in the bullpen at least twice and go through some defensive drills to ensure that his leg is sound.

[O.Z.O.]

Beltre in a contract year helps too.

seem to remember somebody saying this was a bad signing...I could be wrong

[sonsofkraftybob]

Smoke and mirrors boys....

SMOKE

AND

MIRRORS

[O.Z.O.]

Smoke and mirrors boys....

SMOKE

AND

MIRRORS

#1 offense in the majors-

#1- BA
#2- Home Runs
#1- RBI
#1- hits
#1- runs
#1- doubles
#1- OPS
#1- SLG
#2- OBP

...and this is with a guy who hit .300 and led the majors in stolen bases sidelined for almost the entire season to this point...

I'm going to disagree with your smoke and mirrors comment amigo. If they were in the middle of the pack offensively I might give some credence to that comment, but the bottom line is that they've been knocking the cover off the ball to make up for, what to this point anyway, has been less then spectacular pitching and defense. However, Lackey has 5 strong starts in his last 6 appearances, so they have 3 starters right now pitching well. Get some guys healthy and fix the bullpen and they could run away in the second half.

[midgar8784]

#1 offense in the majors-

#1- BA
#2- Home Runs
#1- RBI
#1- hits
#1- runs
#1- doubles
#1- OPS
#1- SLG
#2- OBP

I'm going to disagree with your smoke and mirrors comment amigo. If they were in the middle of the pack offensively I might give some credence to that comment, but the bottom line is that they've been knocking the cover off the ball to make up for, what to this point anyway, has been less then spectacular pitching and defense. However, Lackey has 5 strong starts in his last 6 appearances, so they have 3 starters right now pitching well. Get some guys healthy and fix the bullpen and they could run away in the second half.



Pretty neat for a team that was supposed to be about speed, defense and pitching at the start of the year.

[tehrick67]

Pretty neat for a team that was supposed to be about speed, defense and pitching at the start of the year.

I wa gonna say the same thing.

I guess offense is still important, go figure.

[O.Z.O.]

Pretty neat for a team that was supposed to be about speed, defense and pitching at the start of the year.


I'll agree with this caveat-

I looked at the lineup and thought they'd be a MUCH better offensive team this year then they were last year. My premise there was based on 3 things-

1. I thought the Beltre' signing was brilliant, and figured that, as a righted handed pull hitter, he'd have a huge year in Boston

2. I thought Ortiz's second half from last year would carry over into this year. Okay...so it took a month

3. I thought Scutaro would fill the 9 hole in the lineup really well and create a great bridge for flipping the order...of course, I didn't envision Ellsbury missing pretty much the entire season to this point

I'll be happy with 2 out of 3 here.

[DarrylStingley]

The pen sucks. They will need it not to suck for this team to have a real shot.

[O.Z.O.]

The pen sucks. They will need it not to suck for this team to have a real shot.

was it wrong of me to burn del Carmen in effigy this morning?

[mikiemo83]

but Manny is hurt - elbow issues

[DarrylStingley]

was it wrong of me to burn del Carmen in effigy this morning?

No. Guy sucks. And iIf he's hurt, he should tell the team and not let himself go out there and get lit up.

[tehrick67]

I wonder how JD's neck is today..

[DarrylStingley]

I wonder how JD's neck is today..

I'm a huge Drew fan and defender....and last night's neck thing annoyed the shit out of me....

[mikiemo83]

if JD never said a word went out hurt going 0-4, leaving 5 on-base looking poor would you be more pissed off?

if not then you can't be at Manny, I think he was in the pen because the team needed him not because he was afraid to tell of his injury

[tehrick67]

Sometimes you need to suck it up and play.

I'm sure JD has done that at some point, but it sure doesnt feel that way.

My dad got out of bed everyday with a beat up body after almost being killed by a hit and run driver.

It took everything he had, he was in constant pain, and he sucked it up every day, because his family needed him too.

I know we aren't supossed to compare pro sports to real life, but I can't help it.

Thankfully my dad is retired, and has thru the wonders of science found some relief from his pain.

[DarrylStingley]

if JD never said a word went out hurt going 0-4, leaving 5 on-base looking poor would you be more pissed off?

if not then you can't be at Manny, I think he was in the pen because the team needed him not because he was afraid to tell of his injury

Fair point.

I don't want any player to play hurt, tis true.

But I do find it a little trying that JD Drew seems to get hurt so much. Every time the guy runs full out for a ball or around the bases, I wince and worry that he's going to pull something. Don't you? Doesn't every Sox fan? And why should we have to think that way? Why is his body so fragile? Does he not work out enough in the off season? Again, I'm a Drew fan but it's annoying that he needs so much time off.

And yeah, Manny hurt the team last night if he was hurt. He should have told someone and he should have been replaced by someone from Pawtucket who is healthy.

[mikiemo83]

Fair point.

I don't want any player to play hurt, tis true.

But I do find it a little trying that JD Drew seems to get hurt so much. Every time the guy runs full out for a ball or around the bases, I wince and worry that he's going to pull something. Don't you? Doesn't every Sox fan? And why should we have to think that way? Why is his body so fragile? Does he not work out enough in the off season? Again, I'm a Drew fan but it's annoying that he needs so much time off.

And yeah, Manny hurt the team last night if he was hurt. He should have told someone and he should have been replaced by someone from Pawtucket who is healthy.we agree on drew and manny but who is left at pawtucket? Bowdin? and we are not sure if he didn't tell them he was sore but agreed he could go 1 inning

this is the area of most need BP pitching

[DarrylStingley]

we agree on drew and manny but who is left at pawtucket? Bowdin? and we are not sure if he didn't tell them he was sore but agreed he could go 1 inning

this is the area of most need BP pitching

I'd rather have Felix Doubront or Bowden and probably a few other guys for an inning or two than a compromised Manny.

Yes, the Sox need to augment the pen. Badly.

[tehrick67]

Manny to the 15 day DL.

[mikiemo83]

I'd rather have Felix Doubront or Bowden and probably a few other guys for an inning or two than a compromised Manny.

Yes, the Sox need to augment the pen. Badly.do you want Felix in the pen or in pawtucket as a starter? in his whole time in the sox system he only came out of the pen once and that was winter ball

and Bowden, other than 7 appearances last year in Boston, has been exclusively a starter 103 out of 106 appearances. oh and it was a 9+ era in Boston

so either Robert Manuel or Fernando Cabrera makes more sense

[DarrylStingley]

do you want Felix in the pen or in pawtucket as a starter? in his whole time in the sox system he only came out of the pen once and that was winter ball

and Bowden, other than 7 appearances last year in Boston, has been exclusively a starter 103 out of 106 appearances. oh and it was a 9+ era in Boston

so either Robert Manuel or Fernando Cabrera makes more sense
I don't think it much matters whether the guy was a starter or a reliever in the minors. A huge percentage of relievers in the majors were starters in high school, college or the minors. I want whoever is the best pitcher.

Said otherwise, unless you're like DiceK, and have first inning wildness problems, if you can pitch multiple innings, you can pitch fewer innings.

Give me the best two or three guys from Pawtucket (and pick from Doubront, Bowden, Coello, Cabrerra and Manuel) and give Oki and Ramirez their walking or DL papers.

Time to stop f'ing around with a crapola pen.

[mikiemo83]

usually the best pitcher is key but if these kids can not warm up fast, what good is it

I do think Bowden will be 1st up as he had been used in the role before but I would hate to screw with Felix right now

[babalu87]

Varitek out with a broken foot

WTFBBQWHOHASTHEDOLLWITHTEHPINSINIT

[mikiemo83]

4-6 weeks on the DL

Manny on 15 day


how many dl spots are there?

are the sox close to maxing the 15 day out and having to move someone to the 60

[DarrylStingley]

usually the best pitcher is key but if these kids can not warm up fast, what good is it

I do think Bowden will be 1st up as he had been used in the role before but I would hate to screw with Felix right now

You don't know that the starters can't warm up fast.

Again, almost every elite reliever in baseball started out as a starter somewhere. It's one thing when you try to convert a 13 year starter to the pen....it's quite another when you take a minor league starter and make him a reliver -- no biggee, usually.

Get the best arms up here.

[mikiemo83]

You don't know that the starters can't warm up fast.

Again, almost every elite reliever in baseball started out as a starter somewhere. It's one thing when you try to convert a 13 year starter to the pen....it's quite another when you take a minor league starter and make him a reliver -- no biggee, usually.

Get the best arms up here.no shit I do not know but are you sure he doesn't? I rememebr this being a topic in the past with kids coming up.

I ask, regardless of his struggles, would Dicek work out of the pen?

I doubt it as he takes a while to get loose

same with Wake now, he takes too long and needs to come in at the start of an inning not in the middle for this reason in addition to any runners on base will rob the next bag

it is more than just putting a player out there and saying have at it, routines need to be amended, how many tosses before he is loose needs to be found out..it is not a simple fix for all - you can not simple say 'he is a kid put him out there'

[DarrylStingley]

no shit I do not know but are you sure he doesn't? I rememebr this being a topic in the past with kids coming up.

I ask, regardless of his struggles, would Dicek work out of the pen?

I doubt it as he takes a while to get loose

same with Wake now, he takes too long and needs to come in at the start of an inning not in the middle for this reason in addition to any runners on base will rob the next bag

it is more than just putting a player out there and saying have at it, routines need to be amended, how many tosses before he is loose needs to be found out..it is not a simple fix for all - you can not simple say 'he is a kid put him out there'
Yes, I agree, DiceK is a bad choice for the pen. I wrote that above, actually. He has done poorly in the first inning of many starts. Can't be a reliever.

But comparing an established MLB starter with a guy in the minors in the 21-25 zone is weird science.

If you look at every major league roster, you will find that a substantial majority of the relievers were starters in the minors for one simple reason: Get the best arms for the bigs.

Seriously, if given the choice of the guy to take from Pawtucket, would you really prefer a guy with worse numbers because he's been relieving? That seems ludicrous to me.

If you assume that Bowden is the best arm (for argument's purposes), I would think that the Sox could work with him and get him mentally and physically prepared to come into games with fewer pitches. And in fact, Bowden has appeared in games for the Sox in the past as a reliever and did just fine.

Would I want to turn John Lackey into a reliever? No. Would I worry about his warm up time? Yes. But Lackey has been at the starting game for a lot longer than Mr. Bowden or Mr. Dubront, both of whom are young enough to adjust.

[mikiemo83]

Yes, I agree, DiceK is a bad choice for the pen. I wrote that above, actually. He has done poorly in the first inning of many starts. Can't be a reliever.I said even if he didn't have his issues he couldn't relieve and there are others like him out there

If you look at every major league roster, you will find that a substantial majority of the relievers were starters in the minors for one simple reason: Get the best arms for the bigs. yes this is obvious but not all make the transistion smoothly because they have issues getting ready to enter the game, it is a different mindset

[/quote]Seriously, if given the choice of the guy to take from Pawtucket, would you really prefer a guy with worse numbers because he's been relieving? That seems ludicrous to me.

If you assume that Bowden is the best arm (for argument's purposes), I would think that the Sox could work with him and get him mentally and physically prepared to come into games with fewer pitches. And in fact, Bowden has appeared in games for the Sox in the past as a reliever and did just fine.
[/quote] you see picking a lesser arm while I see picking someone who can fill the role, maybe it is Bowden or Felix , but I want the Pitcher who will most likely be able to handle the role they are put in. if that is Cabrera because he can pitch out of the pen with a better success rate then someone else fine...like Iwouldn't take Cabrera and make him a starter for 1 game I have to think twice before making a kid a RP who has never done it like Felix.


Would I want to turn John Lackey into a reliever? No. Would I worry about his warm up time? Yes. But Lackey has been at the starting game for a lot longer than Mr. Bowden or Mr. Dubront, both of whom are young enough to adjust.we are agreeing in that the best pitcher needs to come up but I am thinking who is the best pitcher for the role not just the best arm

I wonder what would be the time is takes them to adjust to working out of the pen, I highly doubt all make the change overnight, may be but what if it isn't are they of any help to you?

[DarrylStingley]

I think it's harder to create talent than to coach the ability to warm up for a relief appearance -- which I think isn't all that hard, in reality.

Give me the best guys and I'll let John Farrell figure it out.

Go Sox!

[mikiemo83]

let me simplify this, using Bowden, assume he can not work out of the pen like his 9 + era from last time suggest, would you still call him up?

or would you take someone who can be a RP in the MLB?



if he can not handle the BP role why bring him up over someone who may be able to, because he is a better starter? that to me is insane as you are looking for a RP and not all can fill the role no matter what the ability as a starter says

now he may be able too and I am sure Tito, theo and the pawsox brass are all together talking about who could step in and help, I am sure the makeup of each kid is being discussed and that both of our opinions mean shit to them

that said

GO Sox is correct

[DarrylStingley]

let me simplify this, using Bowden, assume he can not work out of the pen like his 9 + era from last time suggest, would you still call him up?

or would you take someone who can be a RP in the MLB?



if he can not handle the BP role why bring him up over someone who may be able to, because he is a better starter? that to me is insane as you are looking for a RP and not all can fill the role no matter what the ability as a starter says

now he may be able too and I am sure Tito, theo and the pawsox brass are all together talking about who could step in and help, I am sure the makeup of each kid is being discussed and that both of our opinions mean shit to them

that said

GO Sox is correct
Let me simplify this.

If I was Theo, I would ask: Who is the best pitcher at Pawtucket? Who gets guys out the most?

When given that answer, I would say "that's the man for me" and I would not spend one second worrying about the warm-up factor.

And I would make that decision with the full knowledge that the best guys in my pen were starters earlier in their career and made the adjustment just fine.

[O.Z.O.]

Yes, I agree, DiceK is a bad choice for the pen. I wrote that above, actually. He has done poorly in the first inning of many starts. Can't be a reliever.




Stinger, I'm going to disagree with you on this. Here's my rationale-

Dice-K has a boatload of pitches. Quite often, he'll use the first inning of a game to figure out which ones he has the best command over, and, as the game goes on, resort to throwing those pitches. Look at his starts...he typically pitches better the deeper he goes into games. Now, when healthy, his fastball sits in the 92-94 MPH range...so let's look at it this way...

...you bring him in for one inning to throw as hard as he can, maybe mixing in a couple off-speed or breaking pitches but primarily throwing fastballs. You probably add about 1-2 MPH to his fastball this way, making it a really nasty combination of velocity and movement. Rather then having to get through the entire lineup 2-3x, he now has to get maybe 3-6 outs. I'm going to theorize that this would work well and that his K/9 rate would be double digits.

Now, before anybody doubts me on this, here's my track record so far this year-

- I said Buchholz was going to turn it around this year and be a huge piece to the rotation, and was deadset against moving him under any circumstances

- I though that both the Beltre' and Scutaro signings were great moves

- I thought Papi had plenty in the tank and would pick up where he left off after his second half revival last year

- I thought the bullpen was going to be the weak link this season

- I thought that, overall, the offense would be VASTLY improved over last year and would be one of the best in the Majors

[mikiemo83]

Let me simplify this.

If I was Theo, I would ask: Who is the best pitcher at Pawtucket? Who gets guys out the most?

When given that answer, I would say "that's the man for me" and I would not spend one second worrying about the warm-up factor.

And I would make that decision with the full knowledge that the best guys in my pen were starters earlier in their career and made the adjustment just fine.move past warm up factor and into can he do the job, he may be the best starter but can he become an effective RP...that is what I would be asking

based on last seasons 8 appearances Bowden 23 hits in 69 at bats with 3 hr and 8 doubles doesn't make me all warm and fuzzy inside

Split G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR SB CS BB SO SO/BB BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
2009 Totals 8 75 69 17 23 8 0 3 1 0 6 12 2.00 .333 .387 .580 .966 40 1 0 0 0 0 0 .370 100 155

[O.Z.O.]

Split G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR SB CS BB SO SO/BB BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
2009 Totals 8 75 69 17 23 8 0 3 1 0 6 12 2.00 .333 .387 .580 .966 40 1 0 0 0 0 0 .370 100 155

this line makes the baby Jesus cry...


The only reason this guy is still in the system is because they can't unload him anywhere. They floated him out there in the attempted deal Santana a couple years ago and the Twins just laughed.

[mikiemo83]

this line makes the baby Jesus cry...


The only reason this guy is still in the system is because they can't unload him anywhere. They floated him out there in the attempted deal Santana a couple years ago and the Twins just laughed.I am hoping it was just a case of Penitis but his start was pretty poor too


more time like Buchholz will help, I pray

[O.Z.O.]

I am hoping it was just a case of Penitis but his start was pretty poor too


more time like Buchholz will help, I pray

well, part of the problem we have, as Sox fans, is that we tend to compare our young pitchers to Buchholz when they hit the Show. Not a lot of guys are going to toss no-nos in their second starts.

What he probably needs to do is figure out what kind of pitcher he is, and by that I mean is he a strikeout guy or is he a "pitch to contact" guy.

[mikiemo83]

well, part of the problem we have, as Sox fans, is that we tend to compare our young pitchers to Buchholz when they hit the Show. Not a lot of guys are going to toss no-nos in their second starts.

What he probably needs to do is figure out what kind of pitcher he is, and by that I mean is he a strikeout guy or is he a "pitch to contact" guy.yeah clay spoiled us but he is a lessoned learned with his last year of service - patience baby


Michael needs to be TOLD what he is

[DarrylStingley]

I'm not fixated on Bowden, though. It could be Coello or Dubront. Give me the best guy you have, Pawtucket.

[LeonPowe]

Billy Hall should pitch. He works quick.

[mikiemo83]

Billy Hall should pitch. He works quick.you know his wife!?!?!

hey if he can do the job I do not care if it is Framingham's own Lou Merloni making a comeback

[LeonPowe]

I miss Red Sox Legends Lou Merloni and Troy O'Leary

[jaychamp]

- I said Buchholz was going to turn it around this year and be a huge piece to the rotation, and was deadset against moving him under any circumstances

Sorry, not giving you that one. :harumph:

He turned the corner last year, despite a couple of bad starts towards the end. I've been behind Buch from the start, constantly defended how stupid it would be to trade him whenever it was brought up. His only problem was mental, that was the only corner he needed to turn, and he did that last year.

I also seem to remember you saying saying Dice K was a number 2 pitcher because of that one Houdini escape artist-like 18 win season which I disagreed on, and in front of Buch in the rotation which I also disagreed :)

I thought Papi had plenty in the tank and would pick up where he left off after his second half revival last year

I'm kind of ashamed on this one. I had the same feeling before the season, but the way it started I had pretty much lost faith, and thought last year was more of an aberration(am I using that correctly?). Though the jury is still out on whether he still has something left in the tank or has put something in it :D

[Mr. Happy Sock]

Can someone give me a logical explanation as to why the Rays ALWAYS play the Red Sox as if every single game was a WS game 7, yet there's never a sense of urgency with the Red Sox?

[jaychamp]

Can someone give me a logical explanation as to why the Rays ALWAYS play the Red Sox as if every single game was a WS game 7, yet there's never a sense of urgency with the Red Sox?
I think the Rays think it's more of a rivalry than the Sox do.

[TITAN126]

That was a pretty depressing game tonight. Kazmir has always owned the Red Sox, so I was pumped when they chased him after 3 innings. I thought it was in the bag when the Red Sox had a 5-1 lead, but Dice-K managed to choke it away.

[DarrylStingley]

That was a pretty depressing game tonight. Kazmir has always owned the Red Sox, so I was pumped when they chased him after 3 innings. I thought it was in the bag when the Red Sox had a 5-1 lead, but Dice-K managed to choke it away.

You mean Garza but yeah, that sucked.

Tito was much too slow on the draw in the 6th inning with Dice. F'd the game right up the keester right there.

[DarrylStingley]

In the category of maybe Mikie and DS were BOTH right, the Sox are reportedly moving Michael Bowden to the Pawtucket pen.

This says to me that they want the best arm (DS is right) and that they want that best arm to be used to warming up quick (Mikie is right).

Interesting, eh?

[mikiemo83]

In the category of maybe Mikie and DS were BOTH right, the Sox are reportedly moving Michael Bowden to the Pawtucket pen.

This says to me that they want the best arm (DS is right) and that they want that best arm to be used to warming up quick (Mikie is right).

Interesting, eh?great news, now that hell froze over can we get some relief to the heat. :D


Bowden has been a horse his last 8 starts, especially his last few

In his past couple of starts, Bowden has sharply veered back toward the form of promising young prospect. He allowed no runs in 7 2/3 innings against Louisville on June 15 and surrendered just two in 6 2/3 against Scranton/Wilkes-Barre on June 21.

link (http://www.projo.com/pawsox/content/pawsox_beat_chiefs_behind_shealy_06-28-10_PJJ_v2.14c9116.html)

[TheBostonJay]

Ok, baseball god wins. I give up.

W.T.F.

Now Youkilis?

What is this shit?

[3 Point Stan]

2 things:

If Youks is hurt, FML.

For Bowden, I love the idea of adding him as a reliever. You keep his innings down, you get him some serious Major League contention-level experience, and maybe you get another Bard-like arm from the pen and that's better than anything you could likely get in a trade.

[TITAN126]

You mean Garza but yeah, that sucked.

Tito was much too slow on the draw in the 6th inning with Dice. F'd the game right up the keester right there.

D'oh, yeah meant Garza.

Another real bummer tonight. Come on Oki, how do you give up a homer to Carl Crawford?

Hopefully Youk is OK.

[DarrylStingley]

Another real bummer tonight. Come on Oki, how do you give up a homer to Carl Crawford?

Oki is toast.

Dude, thanks for 07. Without you, the Sox would not have won. Now, you suck. Buh bye.

[PatsFanLisa]

Sometimes Larry Johnson's cartoons are really awesome. This one is just right on the money, unfortunately.





82551

[Muse]

sad but true Lisa

[mikiemo83]

For Bowden, I love the idea of adding him as a reliever. You keep his innings down, you get him some serious Major League contention-level experience, and maybe you get another Bard-like arm from the pen and that's better than anything you could likely get in a trade.

I like how they are doing this transition in the minors, getting him used to the role before a possible call up. if Cafardo is correct about his makeup and mechanics are adjusted, this is a great move

Red Sox scouts have been scouring the big leagues looking for a possible match to add to their bullpen, according to major league sources, but don't be surprised if they now look within, with news they are moving Pawtucket starter Michael Bowden to the bullpen.

The Sox have had some interest in Toronto lefty Scott Downs and have discussed Cleveland closer Kerry Wood internally according to a major league source . But the price tag, either in salary, or in prospects that would have to be given up, has been pretty high.

The Sox are trying to find their 2010 Billy Wagner, but that may not exist this year.

Bowden has been impressive this season and the Sox feel they have corrected some mechanical issues since spring training which has added some velocity to his fastball. Bowden also has the best makeup for a reliever - a hard-nosed kid who pitches on adrenaline. A perfect formula for a good reliever. With Manny Delcarmen out and Hideki Okajima experiencing back issues, the Sox would love to add a lefty reliever to the mix. Downs, or possibly Baltimore's Will Ohman could be possibilities.

[O.Z.O.]

"the Sox would love to add a lefty reliever to the mix. Downs, or possibly Baltimore's Will Ohman could be possibilities. "

this would make me happy. Ohman's having a strong year on a putrid team.

[mikiemo83]

Yankees to get Cliff Lee for their Catching Prospect Jesus Montero and others - Yahoo sports

interesting that he is to pitch against them tonight

[jaychamp]

Not a done deal yet, and that would suck

[midgar8784]

Yankees to get Cliff Lee for their Catching Prospect Jesus Montero and others - Yahoo sports

interesting that he is to pitch against them tonight


lee went to the rangers for Smoak and about 3 minor leaguers.

[carlgarrett]

Sox are winning tonight.

[jaychamp]

I guess the Yankees will have to wait until FA and throw 500 million at Lee

[DarrylStingley]

I guess the Yankees will have to wait until FA and throw 500 million at Lee

Let's not be unfair to the MFY. It will only be $120 mm.

[jaychamp]

Let's not be unfair to the MFY. It will only be $120 mm.
Each year maybe

[jmt57]

So Tampa Bay is at New York for three games.

Who do you root for (other than injuries and three 21-20 games that wear out every pitcher for both teams)?

My first inclination is to root for a Rays sweep, but I'm not 100% sure.

[DarrylStingley]

So Tampa Bay is at New York for three games.

Who do you root for (other than injuries and three 21-20 games that wear out every pitcher for both teams)?

My first inclination is to root for a Rays sweep, but I'm not 100% sure.

Gotta go MFYs sweeping. I have more confidence in the Sox catching the Rays than than the Yanks at this point.

Either way, though, a sweep would be good.

And I like your injuries point. Very twisted of you.

[babalu87]

Highest average ticket prices in the league, if they dont make a move its criminal

[jaychamp]

What do you guys think about Werth? Great defender, righty with power. There's your Bay replacement they never got in the offseason without the defensive liabilities. How is Bay looking this year anyway?

[DarrylStingley]

What do you guys think about Werth? Great defender, righty with power. There's your Bay replacement they never got in the offseason without the defensive liabilities. How is Bay looking this year anyway?

meh; not many homers; hitting .260 as usual; not worth the huge coin

[jaychamp]

meh; not many homers; hitting .260 as usual; not worth the huge coin

I know, I was being sarcastic for the people that thought not signing Bay was a huge mistake.

I'd like to see the Sox land Werth as a rental if it's not too costly.

[BostonTim]

Youk! Nice. You're my all-star (for whatever THAT might be worth - :jester:) .

The difference between salvaging the rubber game in a tough situation versua being swept is huge. MIGHT (might, I say) make all the difference in this tough season.

Cheers, BostonTim

[DarrylStingley]

Youk! Nice. You're my all-star (for whatever THAT might be worth - :jester:) .

The difference between salvaging the rubber game in a tough situation versua being swept is huge. MIGHT (might, I say) make all the difference in this tough season.

Cheers, BostonTim

Yup, that was a HUGE win, I daresay.

Losing 3 or even 4 out of the gate to TX would have been tough on the team, both in the standings and in the brain.

Kiss my tuchus, Cliff Lee. You just got YOUKD!

[DarrylStingley]

Yo Tito: Keep Eric Patterson buttoned to the bench. He sucks, Darnell is pretty good and there's no reason to play Patterson unless you need a pinch runner.

Sometimes, Tito thinks too phucking much.

Eric Patterson! Please.....

[mikiemo83]

Again thanks to moJOOLZ at SP

Bowden called up,no move announced to make room

[Joolz]

Again thanks to moJOOLZ at SP

Bowden called up,no move announced to make room


UPDATE: it would seem Gustavo Molina is out.

[BostonTim]

Youk! Nice. You're my all-star (for whatever THAT might be worth - :jester:) .

The difference between salvaging the rubber game in a tough situation versua being swept is huge. MIGHT (might, I say) make all the difference in this tough season.

Cheers, BostonTimNeed to correct myself. It was NOT of course the rubber match. The rubber was already won by the Rangers. Should have said get-a-way, or final, or 3rd game or something.

Cheers

[jaychamp]

Need to correct myself. It was NOT of course the rubber match. The rubber was already won by the Rangers. Should have said get-a-way, or final, or 3rd game or something.

Cheers
I don't think 4 game series' even have rubber matches

[BostonTim]

I don't think 4 game series' even have rubber matchesCorrect. They don't. The problem started when I didn't even realize it was a four game series and started yapping on the theory that game three was the end of it. On a Saturday. When anyone knows that series end on Sunday not Saturday. Except Diehard me.

Cheers, BostonTim

[DarrylStingley]

Tough night for all the DiceK bashers last night.

[jaychamp]

Tough night for all the DiceK bashers last night.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of opportunities to bash him in the future, but hopefully not. I don't enjoy bashing him or hope that he'll fail despite what you might think. I like being proved wrong when I'm negative about a Sox player

[tehrick67]

I'm sure I'll have plenty of opportunities to bash him in the future, but hopefully not. I don't enjoy bashing him or hope that he'll fail despite what you might think. I like being proved wrong when I'm negative about a Sox player

Hey, we all have opinions.

I was wrong about Beltre, although I dont think he's going to hit the homeruns some thought.

I was right on about Cameron, who'd figure a 37 year old guy would get injured.

[TheBostonJay]

Ugh, blowing that game when the MFYs and Devil Rays lost sucks.

One last thing...

I hate Bogar.

[sonsofkraftybob]

Wakefield sucks ass.

3rd inning: 2 hits, 2 walks, 2 steals, hit batter and a wild pitch = Wakefield blowing a HUGE game...HUGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mikiemo83]

Lowrie hitting second and playing short


mono boy better stop kissing young ladies

[tehrick67]

Lowrie hitting second and playing short




I forgot about this guy, until I heard they tried to trade him for a catcherROFL

Maybe Jose Offerman is still aroud.

[mikiemo83]

early game today...starts in a few minutes

[Mr. Happy Sock]

Wow this team is terrible. AAAA Lineup- I know they have been decimated by injuries, but this is horrible.

They need to go on a long winning streak starting NOW. $175 Million payroll needs to put up or shut up.

[tehrick67]

Some of these hurt guys who are close need to suck it up, and get back asap.

[PatsFanDan]

Maybe Jose Offerman is still aroud.

I think he's in jail working on his anger management issues.

[TheBostonJay]

From no hitter and five run lead in the 9th to bases loaded with tying run on 2nd.

:shrug:

:insane:

:hang:

[Joolz]

From no hitter and five run lead in the 9th to bases loaded with tying run on 2nd.

:shrug:

:insane:

:hang:

But, but, but...they won. Granted, it wasn't easy or pretty, but it's a win. ;)

[tehrick67]

This 'run prevention' is killing me.

Theo needs to do something. Despte the injuries, this team is still in it.

Manny Delcarmen need's to back on the DL.

[DarrylStingley]

Has there ever been a less satisfying win than last night?

I mean....ever?

In any sport at any time?

I think not.

[mikiemo83]

two weeks from now I will have blocked out the ugly and remember only the win.....I hope

[jaychamp]

Has there ever been a less satisfying win than last night?

I mean....ever?

In any sport at any time?

I think not.
As bad as they've been lately, blowing a lead like that, I was sure they were going to lose. Instead, what could have been probably the most devastating loss of the year, they won. That's how I'm looking at it. I'm marking this as a turning point :)

[mikiemo83]

As bad as they've been lately, blowing a lead like that, I was sure they were going to lose. Instead, what could have been probably the most devastating loss of the year, they won. That's how I'm looking at it. I'm marking this as a turning point :)this would make me happy


on the injury front

- Lowell hit in the 10th to help the pawsox move Nava to third before Lars knocked him in

- Jacoby could start playing in rehab assignment in 4 or 5 days

- Victor caught some off day pitchers work yesterday

[tehrick67]

Someone could have come back from the dead faster than Jacoby and his broken ribs..

[BostonTim]

I am just delighted that I decided to go to sleep the minutre the no-hitter went down the tube. Five run lead, 4 outs to go.

So I got to sleeo through the clusterfluck. Painlessly.


Bet Lackey is delighted with the no-decision. :coffee:

Cheers, BostonTim

[TheBostonJay]

http://www.fangraphs.com/lgraphs/20100722_RedSox_Mariners_0_110_lbig_.png

Demoralizing win, FTW.

[tehrick67]

Run prevetion = FAIL.

[DarrylStingley]

It really has nothing to do with the failure of run prevention. The Sox offense has sucked royally since about July 4. Theo et al decided to roll the dice and not make any moves while the injured guys got healthy, or tried to make moves and wasn't able to do so, and the Sox simply weren't able to tread water.

They are now playing shit ass, lifeless, vaginal baseball, and bad defense is only part of the equation.

The failure of Dice to throw strikes today is so damn frustrating.

[TheBostonJay]

The failure of Dice to throw strikes today is so damn frustrating.

Today? When is he not damn frustrating?

:insane:

[TITAN126]

He still pitched well enough to win. Another nice choke job by the bullpen though. Oki's gotta go.

[Grumpy_Bottom]

I know that's at least the second completely brain-dead fielding play I've seen Oki make to blow a game. Why on earth was Bard in the 7th and Oki the 8th?

[DarrylStingley]

1. Dice was very good in his last outing.

2. Though he gave up only one run today, his five walks and a zillion pitches through 6 innings sucked ass.

3. Francona taking out Bard after just one hit and replacing him with 2010 Hideki was the dumbest thing he's done since his last moronic managing move, which wasn't all that long ago.

4. Okajima sucks and needs to get DFA'd. (Thank you very much for 2007 but hit the road.)

5. The fact that the offense only scored 2 runs in that game is an epic failure.

6. I remain thoroughly convinced that the failure to make moves in early July, before the shit show began, was a front office disaster. They should have known that the MASH unit was not going to be able to hold things together until the real players came back. They rolled the dice and blew the season in the process. Very disappointing.

[tehrick67]

The bullpen, and defense have sucked.

In my mind, that means run prevention has sucked.

Yes, the offense has struggled, but we were told gold glove defense, and pitching would be the answer.

Yup, injuries have been a problem, but a 172 million dollar payroll, we should be able to get by.

Somehow, this team is still in it, but I'm not sure if they can make a run or not.

This team sucks to watch right now.

[DarrylStingley]

The bullpen, and defense have sucked.

In my mind, that means run prevention has sucked.

Yes, the offense has struggled, but we were told gold glove defense, and pitching would be the answer.

Yup, injuries have been a problem, but a 172 million dollar payroll, we should be able to get by.

Somehow, this team is still in it, but I'm not sure if they can make a run or not.

This team sucks to watch right now.
We interpreted the emphasis on getting better fielding meant that they didn't care about offense as much, but that was always media BS.

The Sox FO thought that this offense would score and for good reason. A line-up with Pedroia, Youks, Drew, VMart, Ellsbury and Ortiz SHOULD score a lot of runs, especially if one or two of Cameron, Beltre and Scutaro pitched in.

The Sox have always in the Theo Era valued good pitching. Nothing new there.

[Mr. Happy Sock]

I haven't watched more than an inning or 2 of any game this entire year....And I won't be watching any from the looks of it. This team is just AWFUL. I know all the injuries have caught up to them with all the no-names, however Theo has fully succeeded at putting his stamp on this team. What exactly does that mean? They look like they ain't got no HEART!

This is what $175 Million gets you?

No thanks....

[3 Point Stan]

This is what $175 Million gets you?



I'm not trying to sway you in the other direction - I'm only casually watching myself. But I do believe if 2/3rd of the lineup was not DL'd, we'd be getting a much bigger bang out of that payroll you're citing.

This team might not make the playoffs but I am certain it will be an interesting September in the AL East and for Boston Red Sox fans.

[mikiemo83]

I'm not trying to sway you in the other direction - I'm only casually watching myself. But I do believe if 2/3rd of the lineup was not DL'd, we'd be getting a much bigger bang out of that payroll you're citing.

This team might not make the playoffs but I am certain it will be an interesting September in the AL East and for Boston Red Sox fans.I agree with everything but that will win the wild card or it doesn't come out of the East this year (angels/Rangers)

[tehrick67]

I think only 4 or 5 other teams have given up more runs in the AL than the Sox.

You can't blame that on the offense.

This team has made some bad defensive mistakes that have cost them & the bullpen has sucked.

[PumpDee]

Just popped in to this thread to say









:suicide:








I'll be leaving now.


:shake:

[tehrick67]

Will Jacoby sack up and play anytime soon?

He's making JD Drew look like a tough guy.

[mikiemo83]

August 9th we see Jacoby

[babalu87]

ROFL at the guy on 98.5 yesterday

"What if he gets soap in his eyes"

Does anyone even listen to EEI anymore?

[mikiemo83]

ROFL at the guy on 98.5 yesterday

"What if he gets soap in his eyes"

Does anyone even listen to EEI anymore?I do not get the station at work anymore since my old vacuum tube radio on/off switch went so 98.5 it is during the work day

[3 Point Stan]

Does anyone even listen to EEI anymore?

Only when there are commercials on 98.5 on days when some big Boston sports news is breaking or when I suspect a guest (such as Jerry Remy or Doc Rivers) might be on.

[PatsFan09]

I try to listen to the Dale & Holley show. Still the best sports show on the radio.

[tehrick67]

Ellsbury needs to be here tomorrow, or send his ass home, and tell him if he grows a set, then he can report to spring training.

[tommysgirl]

My friend (well her boyfriend) caught Lowells HR last night.:)

[DarrylStingley]

My friend (well her boyfriend) caught Lowells HR last night.:)
That is quite awesome. That was the best non-walk-off moment of the season.

[tehrick67]

That is quite awesome. That was the best non-walk-off moment of the season.

That was great. I was just about to leave the room, but stopped just long enough to see it.

[3 Point Stan]

That is quite awesome. That was the best non-walk-off moment of the season.

The crowd noise immediately following the crack of the bat was just unbelievable.

[babalu87]

Ellsbury needs to be here tomorrow, or send his ass home, and tell him if he grows a set, then he can report to spring training.

Ellsfairy is in your avatar
He DOESNT have a ciggy in his mouth

[mikiemo83]

he is activated for tonight

[DarrylStingley]

August 9th we see Jacoby
Make that 4th.

[tehrick67]

Lets hope he doesnt sprain his twunt.

[mikiemo83]

Make that 4th.better to be wrong in this direction than the other


but he stil has time, remember he has watched JD Drew for the last couple of years and knows how to make a dramatic exit

[WisColtFan7]

Sorry to hear about this----Kevin Youkilis is out for the rest of the year with a torn muscle in his hand. Man the injury bug had bitten Boston hard this year....:(
Posted via Mobile Device

[Joolz]

Sorry to hear about this----Kevin Youkilis is out for the rest of the year with a torn muscle in his hand. Man the injury bug had bitten Boston hard this year....:(
Posted via Mobile Device

I don't think that's been confirmed by the Red Sox.

* Kevin Youkilis will see a hand specialist in Cleveland tomorrow to further determine the extent of his injury. In a strange turn of events, MSNBC commentator (and resolute Yankee fan) Keith Olbermann posted on Twitter that he heard Youkilis was done for the season. That could well prove to be true. But that determination has not been made.http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/08/pre-game_notes_8.html

[WisColtFan7]

That's where I heard it from---and even though its from Olbermann, he has worked in sports for a number of years, and probably maintains relationships with people in the know up in Boston. So while the Sox haven't confirmed anything, it could still hold more than a grain of truth as well
Posted via Mobile Device

[WisColtFan7]

Posted via Mobile Device

[3 Point Stan]

I can't see any way Youks is not done if he's got a muscle tear.

[jaychamp]

I've never seen so many starters for a team get injured in a season, not in baseball anyway

[DarrylStingley]

Hard to see this team coming back now. Injuries just too much.

[mikiemo83]

Hard to see this team coming back now. Injuries just too much.you mean getting Carlos Delgado to replace youk will not work :shake:



I heard that from someone this morning as he is a free agent

[DarrylStingley]

Lackey's walk to start the bottom of the third after the Sox got two runs in the top half was inexcusable.

Shut down inning!!!!!!!!!

[Whaler53]

Just when they need a big game from Beckett he throws this chit out there....

[TITAN126]

Just when they need a big game from Beckett he throws this chit out there....

Yeah exactly. They HAD to take at least 3 outta 4 in this series to stay alive in the AL East race. Talk about totally laying an egg.

[3 Point Stan]

But they signed Carlos Delgado! All is well!!!!

/BaghdadBobMode

[mikiemo83]

I got the fork in my hand...depending on Lester today if I will stick it in them


luckily the Rays have been sucking on the exhaust pipe

[babalu87]

I thought Lester/Lackey and Beckett were supposed to be carrying this team...........

[mikiemo83]

I thought Lester/Lackey and Beckett were supposed to be carrying this team...........they are...right down teh pooper drain

[mikiemo83]

But they signed Carlos Delgado! All is well!!!!

/BaghdadBobModethats is right

baghdadBobMode

Stand-up guy: Delgado protests during 'God Bless America'
July 21, 2004
SportsLine.com wire reports

NEW YORK -- Fervently anti-war, Carlos Delgado quietly carried out his personal protest this season, refusing to stand when God Bless America was played at ballparks across the majors.

Most fans never saw him disappearing up the dugout tunnel or staying in the dugout. And even teammates who disagreed with the Toronto slugger's political stance accepted his right to call the United States' invasion of Iraq "the stupidest war ever."

This week, though, a lot more people might notice.

The Blue Jays played at Yankee Stadium for the first time this year Wednesday night. It's the only park in the majors where God Bless America has been played every game since the Sept. 11 attacks, a fiercely patriotic place where active military members are still admitted free.

"I don't think that will be received too well," Yankees manager Joe Torre predicted Wednesday before the opener of the two-game series. "Just when Bob Sheppard starts announcing God Bless America, they start applauding. If you do call attention to that, it won't be popular."

It sure wasn't.

Delgado was greeted with scattered boos each time he batted -- no telling whether that was related to his off-the-field opinions, or his status as an opposing star.

http://www.cbssports.com/print/mlb/story/7515397?tag=button-bar;btn-print

[mikiemo83]

But they signed Carlos Delgado! All is well!!!!

/BaghdadBobModethats is right

baghdadBobMode

Stand-up guy: Delgado protests during 'God Bless America'
July 21, 2004
SportsLine.com wire reports

NEW YORK -- Fervently anti-war, Carlos Delgado quietly carried out his personal protest this season, refusing to stand when God Bless America was played at ballparks across the majors.

Most fans never saw him disappearing up the dugout tunnel or staying in the dugout. And even teammates who disagreed with the Toronto slugger's political stance accepted his right to call the United States' invasion of Iraq "the stupidest war ever."

This week, though, a lot more people might notice.

The Blue Jays played at Yankee Stadium for the first time this year Wednesday night. It's the only park in the majors where God Bless America has been played every game since the Sept. 11 attacks, a fiercely patriotic place where active military members are still admitted free.

"I don't think that will be received too well," Yankees manager Joe Torre predicted Wednesday before the opener of the two-game series. "Just when Bob Sheppard starts announcing God Bless America, they start applauding. If you do call attention to that, it won't be popular."

It sure wasn't.

Delgado was greeted with scattered boos each time he batted -- no telling whether that was related to his off-the-field opinions, or his status as an opposing star.
..........link to more of the story (http://www.cbssports.com/print/mlb/story/7515397?tag=button-bar;btn-print)

[TheBostonJay]

Bard's 99 mph pitch to K Swisher = drool

[Mr. Happy Sock]

How's the run prevention thing working out, Theo?

[3 Point Stan]

How's the run prevention thing working out, Theo?

Well... It's preventing a playoff run, I'll tell you that much.

[mikiemo83]

what a catch by Nava

these kids are doing prety good

[mikiemo83]

man what a great win... Pedrioa does everything you are supposed too to hlp, clutch hittin and fielding and dare I say Papelbon is putting together a 5th season with 30+ saves while getting back to the Papelbon we know he can be

[TheBostonJay]

Lester.

Ow.

[Mr. Happy Sock]

That's just how it's been for the Sox this season. Unable to win consistently and running in mud all year due to ineffective pitching. Their pitchers take turns in puking all over themselves.

Turn out the lights, send in the clowns, and get the fat lady out here. The Sox are toast.

[HomelessJoe]

can't believe buchholz is the only reliable starter left. this pitching rotation looked so good at the beginning of the year.

[3 Point Stan]

Lester.

Ow.

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/r_4jrMwvZ2A?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/r_4jrMwvZ2A?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

[Mr. Happy Sock]

Buchholz 15-5 2.26 ERA
Lester 13-8 3.26 ERA
Lackey 11-7 4.62 ERA
Dice-K 8-4 4.19 ERA
Beckett 3-3 8.09 ERA

Thanks for NOTHING, staff "Ace"

[midgar8784]

Buchholz is actually in consideration for a CY young....watched a nice segment on it last night. It amazes me that this team could possibly have the 3rd best record in baseball and not even make the playoffs.:banghead:

[BostonTim]

Buchholz is actually in consideration for a CY young....watched a nice segment on it last night. It amazes me that this team could possibly have the 3rd best record in baseball and not even make the playoffs.:banghead:Interesting. And I'll defer to all you mathletes out there but it occurs to me, that if you went to - say Stanford or MIT, to find the top statistics and probability guy and asked him/her to calculate the odds that three teams from the same division might end up with the best three records in all of baseball, you'ld get seriously laughed at. Yet it could happen.

Cheers, BostonTim

[Fully Tilted]

Buchholz is actually in consideration for a CY young....watched a nice segment on it last night. It amazes me that this team could possibly have the 3rd best record in baseball and not even make the playoffs.:banghead:

Gotta say, this is the "bitter" to my sweet in that it's been nittersweet paying zero attention to the team this season. I've always thought that Buchholz had the "stuff" to dominate. He has really solid stuff with a couple of 'plus-plus' pitches on his better days.

This is the story line that has me kicking myself.

A lot of people sort of dismissed him when he didn't take the next step immediately after his no-hitter.

Good for him.

[midgar8784]

Did I just hear that Johnny Damon.....is coming back???

[Joolz]

Did I just hear that Johnny Damon.....is coming back???

Boston.com link:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2010/08/sox_claim_damon.html

[tehrick67]

It amazes me that this team could possibly have the 3rd best record in baseball and not even make the playoffs.:banghead:

I recall way back in the off season someone saying this team could very easily finish 3rd:coffee:

[tehrick67]

Johnny told the Sox to suck it...

[Number Cruncher]

Johnny told the Sox to suck it...


Attaboy Johnny... :thumb:

[3 Point Stan]

I am fairly certain that the Sox cared more about keeping Damon out of the Rays' hands than acquiring him. But they were willing to take him on if necessary.

In the end, I'd venture to guess it worked out as they'd hoped it would. Now if Chicago claims Manny, even better. Rays can't improve their lineup.

[Mr. Happy Sock]

My man-love for JD doesn't change even with this minor thing.

JD will always be the man.

[TITAN126]

Eff him. I didn't want him back anyway. Traitor.

[Mr. Happy Sock]

Eff him. I didn't want him back anyway. Traitor.

If you don't so the same thing he did in his circumstances, then you are a fool.

It was just business. Plain and simple.