Not Loving the "Need to win One" mantra

[DarrylStingley]

Is anyone else a little concerned with the mantra that was repeated by Pierce, Doc and KG -- and probably others -- that they "just need to get one in LA"?

The fact is that they just need to get one. But I'd rather they were saying that "all we're focused on is game 6.....That's the only game that's in front of us."

Maybe it's a subtle point, but I don't want them to view Game 6 as House Money. And maybe they just don't want to put too much emphasis on Game 6 publicly, but again, I really hope that there's no part of them that is viewing Game 6 with any less urgency than they viewed games 4 and 5.

And yeah, I know, it's weird science to over-emphasize what guys say in the immediate aftermath of a game, and it matters what they do on the court and not what they say, but it just struck me as a little disconcerting to hear so many of the Cs refer to the two chances they'll have out there.

Thoughts?

[mikiemo83]

yeah I don't like it either but it is the PC police regulating comments at it's finest

Maybe Paul and the Boys learned from his 'we are not going back to Cali' comment

[DarrylStingley]

Right....I would have preferred that Doc had gotten the talking point down and conveyed it to the players -- "we're just focused on game 6" -- a la Belichick. We know exactly how Patriots players would be talking in this situation.....

Not a huge deal...I just don't want the Cs to take the chance they have in game 6 even a little bit for granted.

[anderson]

I think it's the safe way to go, given that the refs will do everything they can to make the series go to seven.

[PumpDee]

I'm not nearly as concerned about them saying that as I am about the cry baby BS Pierce pulled right before half time. He walked away from Rondo with 5 seconds left because he was pissed about not being allowed to take the last shot at the half, then when Rondo tried to pass him the ball, Pierce was sulking with his back to Rondo.

Come on CAPTAIN!!!!! Grow the EFF UP!!!!!

[mikiemo83]

I think it's the safe way to go, given that the refs will do everything they can to make the series go to seven.exactly, the NBA wants a game 7 more than any one team winning

[PumpDee]

I think it's the safe way to go, given that the refs will do everything they can to make the series go to seven.


THIS^^^^^^^

Get ready for a frustrating game 6 with terrible calls and Kobe getting whatever he wants.

[DarrylStingley]

I'm not nearly as concerned about them saying that as I am about the cry baby BS Pierce pulled right before half time. He walked away from Rondo with 5 seconds left because he was pissed about not being allowed to take the last shot at the half, then when Rondo tried to pass him the ball, Pierce was sulking with his back to Rondo.

Come on CAPTAIN!!!!! Grow the EFF UP!!!!!
Great point. That was total bullshit.

[Fully Tilted]

This is hair-splitting like the debates over trash-talk and how it motivates the opponent.


I don't think any of them are focused on anything other than Game 6.

[tehrick67]

I dont know what to put stock in when these guys talk, some stuff means something and apparentley other stuff doesnt mean anything...

I hardly watch the NBA, especially since the 80's, but I dont recall so many bleep outs when these guys are dropping N bombs and F bombs every 30 seconds.

[AllWorldTE]

Is anyone else a little concerned with the mantra that was repeated by Pierce, Doc and KG -- and probably others -- that they "just need to get one in LA"?

The fact is that they just need to get one. But I'd rather they were saying that "all we're focused on is game 6.....That's the only game that's in front of us."


I'm not a basketball guy and I haven't seen any of this series but I had the same thoughts watching the clips on this morning's news. Seems an odd, and dangerous, mind-set to me.

[O.Z.O.]

tomorrow night has the potential to be the most frustrating game we've seen all year.

A lot of it is the bullshit invested in Kobe's chance to be the "greatest Laker of all time". What the fuk does that mean, anyway? Magic won 5 rings in LA, and if I have a chance to to choose either of these guys in their prime to build my team around there is NO QUESTION who I choose...

The problem we have here is that the network (ABC/ESPN) is all about glitz and glam. They need the best player in the game to win a championship to make it mean anything. They're not down with the team concept.

I'm not worried about Kobe getting his way, we all know that's going to happen. What I'll be watching for is how much carte' blanche is extended to Gasol. To have a shot, the Lakers will need him to come up huge. Odom will once again pull his disappearing act, and Bynum, unless touched by the hand of God, will once again be a non-factor. Our bigs need to stay aggressive in the paint and on the boards.

[anderson]

When talking about Magic v Kobe, the only question in my mind is whether it's fair that Magic got HIV and Kobe didn't. **** Kobe and **** the Lakers.

[Michigan Dave]

Sheed will will them to win in game 6. In fact, this is the perfect time for a guaranSheed. Give that man a microphone today and let him do his thing.

"WE WILL WIN GAME SIX."

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[3 Point Stan]

Yeah but the refs were supposed to force a Game 7 two years ago and that never happened.

Officiating in this league is brutal but it's also under the microscope. It's talked about, nationally in terms of its deficiencies.

While it can definitely be a mystery "Sixth Man" from game-to-game, I'm not quite counting on a virtual fix to force a Game 7. I actually think if Kobe comes out hot in the first half, it won't be good for the Celts because he'll be getting calls and the likes of a Ray Allen or Paul Pierce might find themselves in early foul trouble.

I still like the C's chances regardless of how Kobe starts if Pierce can be on point with his shots the way he was last night. Virtually automatic for most of the game.

[midgar8784]

Right....I would have preferred that Doc had gotten the talking point down and conveyed it to the players -- "we're just focused on game 6" -- a la Belichick. We know exactly how Patriots players would be talking in this situation.....

Not a huge deal...I just don't want the Cs to take the chance they have in game 6 even a little bit for granted.



There is no way the NBA is not going to make this series go 7. Its just how it is. The Celtics would have to shoot 70% to win this game with how the refs are going to call it.

[O.Z.O.]

There is no way the NBA is not going to make this series go 7. Its just how it is. The Celtics would have to shoot 70% to win this game with how the refs are going to call it.

they have to have their remaining superstar on the big stage.

[tehrick67]

All the talk of officiating ins't good for the league or its image at all, as someone who is fringe at best, its a turn off.

I'm looking foward to this series being over so the local sports talk shows talk about something other than NBA officiating...

[Michigan Dave]

There is no way the NBA is not going to make this series go 7. Its just how it is. The Celtics would have to shoot 70% to win this game with how the refs are going to call it.

I disagree. I think LA will likely get a few calls, for sure, but I don't think there will be some insurmountable officiating force in play keeping the Celtics from winning if they play their game. We thought the same thing 2 years ago, and it was ditchrape city in game 6. Play a good game, take a ride on the duckboats. Play like ass, enjoy game 7.

[DarrylStingley]

I don't buy all the conspiracy theory stuff. If the Cs come to play and play better than the Lakers in game 6, they will win the game.

I don't see how calls had a huge impact last night. There were bad calls both ways. To believe what I'm reading here, I'd have to say that a Cs win was somehow preordained by the refs/NBA.

Horse feathers.

[PumpDee]

I don't buy all the conspiracy theory stuff. If the Cs come to play and play better than the Lakers in game 6, they will win the game.

I don't see how calls had a huge impact last night. There were bad calls both ways. To believe what I'm reading here, I'd have to say that a Cs win was somehow preordained by the refs/NBA.

Horse feathers.


The ref's did seem to be doing all they could to get the lakers back into the game late last night. :shrug:

[Michigan Dave]

The ref's did seem to be doing all they could to get the lakers back into the game late last night. :shrug:

I disagree. The officiating is bad both ways.

[mikiemo83]

I disagree. I think LA will likely get a few calls, for sure, but I don't think there will be some insurmountable officiating force in play keeping the Celtics from winning if they play their game. We thought the same thing 2 years ago, and it was ditchrape city in game 6. Play a good game, take a ride on the duckboats. Play like ass, enjoy game 7.last game 6 was in the Garden, the leprechaun was helping out

[PumpDee]

I disagree. The officiating is bad both ways.


I agree with that, but it seemed to swing their way quite a bit late when the C's were up by 7.

Ticky tack sh*t, too.

[DarrylStingley]

I hate the officiating often times but I really have a hard time with the notion that the NBA would dictate the results of games.

The Cs series against the Cavs and Magic series should have gone 7 on that logic. Better ratings/more money.

Hell, LeBron should have made the finals based on that logic. LeBron-Kobe?

[Michigan Dave]

I agree with that, but it seemed to swing their way quite a bit late when the C's were up by 7.

Ticky tack sh*t, too.

Yeah, but for the most part, they made up for it on the other end. I remember one possession late, there was an offensive call against the Cs and then back the other way they evened it out with a call on Bynum.

Not to mention the "hit the rim" call, which was HUGE. If they really wanted LA back in it, give them that call. It's an easy one.

[tehrick67]

I hate the officiating often times but I really have a hard time with the notion that the NBA would dictate the results of games.

The Cs series against the Cavs and Magic series should have gone 7 on that logic. Better ratings/more money.

Hell, LeBron should have made the finals based on that logic. LeBron-Kobe?

Last week Felger was talking about Donaghey and some other ref who he was calling on his "gambling phone"...I think fox sports got the phone records and it's hard for me to beleive it was just one guy.

He also talked about the 'understanding' the refs have, that isnt talked about.

Intersting stuff..

[tehrick67]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,381842,00.html

[DarrylStingley]

Last week Felger was talking about Donaghey and some other ref who he was calling on his "gambling phone"...I think fox sports got the phone records and it's hard for me to beleive it was just one guy.

He also talked about the 'understanding' the refs have, that isnt talked about.
Intersting stuff..

That is interesting.

Gambling by corrupt officials is one thing....the NBA dictating that the refs should cause one team to win is another.

But the whole thing blows.

[tehrick67]

That is interesting.

Gambling by corrupt officials is one thing....the NBA dictating that the refs should cause one team to win is another.

But the whole thing blows.

I guess the ideal was, they tried to extend the series for rattings and $...I'm not sure i buy it but it was interesting to listen to.

[babalu87]

Or
They know the refs are letting the Lakers win game 6 so it can go 7

That is interesting.

Gambling by corrupt officials is one thing....the NBA dictating that the refs should cause one team to win is another.

But the whole thing blows.

The NBA knows that Donoughey has been talking to other officials, some the day of games.
Jordan played baseball.......................really? Or was he sent away?
NBA officiating is atrocious.
Home teams get calls, you can look it up

[DarrylStingley]

Or
They know the refs are letting the Lakers win game 6 so it can go 7



The NBA knows that Donoughey has been talking to other officials, some the day of games.
Jordan played baseball.......................really? Or was he sent away?
NBA officiating is atrocious.
Home teams get calls, you can look it up

The calls against the Cs in game 3 in Boston were outrageously bad.

[babalu87]

The calls against the Cs in game 3 in Boston were outrageously bad.

Post-season Finals = different

Officiating in the NBA is corrupt

[tommysgirl]

I disagree. I think LA will likely get a few calls, for sure, but I don't think there will be some insurmountable officiating force in play keeping the Celtics from winning if they play their game. We thought the same thing 2 years ago, and it was ditchrape city in game 6. Play a good game, take a ride on the duckboats. Play like ass, enjoy game 7.
I am considering calling the authorities on you for child abuse. First you make theat gorgeous little girl eat peas and now you are teaching her bad words. For shame, MD. I thought you were a better parent than that.:sulk:

[PatsRUs]

From what i've been seeing, the Celtics win when they rebound and make shots.. when they have open looks and the ball rattles around and pops back out, and they miss easy lay-ins.. they lose. The rebound thing is impacted by Bynum, but the missing open shots and missed free throws.. not exactly a credit to the Lakers defense.

As for the 'need to win one' mantra, it's to counter the 'we have home court' mantra of the Lakers.. in other words, they have the upper hand and want to make it known. You can play more loose if it's not life or death, it tends to make you a bit less tight.. and at home, the pressure is all on the Lakers. I just hope the officials don't try TOO hard to keep Jack Nicholson happy.

[PumpDee]

I am considering calling the authorities on you for child abuse. First you make theat gorgeous little girl eat peas and now you are teaching her bad words. For shame, MD. I thought you were a better parent than that.:sulk:





I think his avatar is.......






http://www.bytheballsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/sheedtastic.jpg

[tommysgirl]

I think his avatar is.......






http://www.bytheballsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/sheedtastic.jpg

Your face.


Sorry, this is the go to comeback in my house.:doh:

[DarrylStingley]

As for the 'need to win one' mantra, it's to counter the 'we have home court' mantra of the Lakers.. in other words, they have the upper hand and want to make it known. You can play more loose if it's not life or death, it tends to make you a bit less tight.. and at home, the pressure is all on the Lakers.
I like this. The Cs are subtely putting some pressure the Fakers and keep the pressure off themselves.

Good.

But they still need to bring the wood with full force on Tuesday night. Whatever home court edge the Fakers have on Tuesday night will be even more intense on Thursday, when they are in position to win it all.

[Michigan Dave]

I am considering calling the authorities on you for child abuse. First you make theat gorgeous little girl eat peas and now you are teaching her bad words. For shame, MD. I thought you were a better parent than that.:sulk:

Enfant s'il vous plait. When tDuckboats are rollin' and Sheed is rockin' that Bobby Orr sweater and holding the championship belt up high, you'll be all like wuv , resemblin' Niagara Falls 'n shit screamin' "SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!"

And the next morning, you'll wake up, and pen the world's greatest "you were right, I was wrong, Sheed is asstastic and MD is a motherf*cking prophet" post that this message board has ever seen.

At that point, a lone tear will roll down my cheek, for I'll know that my work here is done.

[mikiemo83]

Enfant s'il vous plait. When tDuckboats are rollin' and Sheed is rockin' that Bobby Orr sweater and holding the championship belt up high, you'll be all like wuv , resemblin' Niagara Falls 'n shit screamin' "SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!"

And the next morning, you'll wake up, and pen the world's greatest "you were right, I was wrong, Sheed is asstastic and MD is a motherf*cking prophet" post that this message board has ever seen.

At that point, a lone tear will roll down my cheek, for I'll know that my work here is done.lay off the pain meds

[PumpDee]

Enfant s'il vous plait. When tDuckboats are rollin' and Sheed is rockin' that Bobby Orr sweater and holding the championship belt up high, you'll be all like wuv , resemblin' Niagara Falls 'n shit screamin' "SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!"

And the next morning, you'll wake up, and pen the world's greatest "you were right, I was wrong, Sheed is asstastic and MD is a motherf*cking prophet" post that this message board has ever seen.

At that point, a lone tear will roll down my cheek, for I'll know that my work here is done.


I love me some Sheed. Sheed is awesome. I am so glad he came to the Celtics, what a world of difference he made. Thank God for Sheed.





Thought I forgot, didn't you. :fire:

[taltos]

Sheed will will them to win in game 6. In fact, this is the perfect time for a guaranSheed. Give that man a microphone today and let him do his thing.

"WE WILL WIN GAME SIX."

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/GZPZqumvnDY&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/GZPZqumvnDY&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>Agreed, might as well have our scum bag win the game vs their scum bag.:insane:

[Michigan Dave]

Agreed, might as well have our scum bag win the game vs their scum bag.:insane:

Sheed is about as far opposite of scumbag as you can get.

[tommysgirl]

Enfant s'il vous plait. When tDuckboats are rollin' and Sheed is rockin' that Bobby Orr sweater and holding the championship belt up high, you'll be all like wuv , resemblin' Niagara Falls 'n shit screamin' "SHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED!"

And the next morning, you'll wake up, and pen the world's greatest "you were right, I was wrong, Sheed is asstastic and MD is a motherf*cking prophet" post that this message board has ever seen.

At that point, a lone tear will roll down my cheek, for I'll know that my work here is done.
Nino, por favor. You was wrong. I was right. For 99% of the season Sheed sucked ass and was a hinderance. He hasn't screwed it up in the Finals and even had a small moment or two but tduckboats will have next to nuffin to do with him.

There will be no concession and Addie will continue to eat vegetables and hopefully spit them back in your face.:harumph:

[PumpDee]

I love me some Sheed. Sheed is awesome. I am so glad he came to the Celtics, what a world of difference he made. Thank God for Sheed.






:coffee:

[Michigan Dave]

Nino, por favor. You was wrong. I was right. For 99% of the season Sheed sucked ass and was a hinderance. He hasn't screwed it up in the Finals and even had a small moment or two but tduckboats will have next to nuffin to do with him.

There will be no concession and Addie will continue to eat vegetables and hopefully spit them back in your face.:harumph:

Ребенка, пожалуйста. As I said back when the Celtics locked up the title by signing Sheed: Sheed=duckboats.

For example:

2009: No Sheed
2009: No Duckboats

2010: Sheed
2010: Duckboats on Standby (waitin' just to say hi)

Sheed burying threes from the top of the arc is pretty much the exact same thing as Erin Andrews doing a topless hula dance.

[tommysgirl]

:coffee:

Anything for the boobies.

Ребенка, пожалуйста. As I said back when the Celtics locked up the title by signing Sheed: Sheed=duckboats.

For example:

2009: No Sheed
2009: No Duckboats

2010: Sheed
2010: Duckboats on Standby (waitin' just to say hi)

Sheed burying threes from the top of the arc is pretty much the exact same thing as Erin Andrews doing a topless hula dance.

You forgot duckboats by association.ROFL

And speaking of boobies. I hope Addie has large glorious ones and enjoys showing them to boys.:harumph:

[DarrylStingley]

Sheed has been generally quite useful in the playoffs since KG and he got real in the showers (Cleveland series).

That he wasn't all that great in the regular season is of no moment. If these Cs win a title, they will be the poster child for the regular season not being that important. As a result, singling out Sheed for a meh regular season aint kosher.

The guy has contributed to winning when the Cs needed to win. And at times, he's done it in a major way.

I like boobies.

[Michigan Dave]

Sheed has been generally quite useful in the playoffs since KG and he got real in the showers (Cleveland series).

That he wasn't all that great in the regular season is of no moment. If these Cs win a title, they will be the poster child for the regular season not being that important. As a result, singling out Sheed for a meh regular season aint kosher.

The guy has contributed to winning when the Cs needed to win. And at times, he's done it in a major way.

I like boobies.

I don't buy the "OMFG!!!REGULARSEASON!!!" crap. Who gives a shit if a dude is worthwhile in the regular season?

[Fully Tilted]

I don't buy the "OMFG!!!REGULARSEASON!!!" crap. Who gives a shit if a dude is worthwhile in the regular season?

If the C's lose the next two games on foregin land (as if LA isn't like another ****ing country), then the regular season slackage will come right back into the conversation because sometimes, like say during the playoffs, home court advantage is important.


I wonder what it would be like if the C's had to win one-of-two heading back to Boston :archive:

I think the LA loss was their second of the playoffs, at home. And that Boston victory in LA.........LA's first home playoff loss.

[anderson]

What's all this booby talk?

[TommyD420]

Right....I would have preferred that Doc had gotten the talking point down and conveyed it to the players -- "we're just focused on game 6" -- a la Belichick.

Belichick = Great Coach.
Doc = Horrible Coach.

[DarrylStingley]

Belichick = Great Coach.
Doc = Horrible Coach.

If these playoffs don't show you and anyone else with Doc-itis the error of your ways, I don't know what to tell you.

Among other things, we've seen him:

- manage the tech situations with Sheed and Perk

- deal with star players who actually walk away during plays out of petulance

- mix in the second team at exactly the right moments and remove them at the right time, too

- manage all of the egos on this team

- manage his team to series wins over the top two seeds in the playoffs and get within a game of his second title in three years

- get praised by KG and Pierce repeatedly as a great HC

Anyone who doesn't get what a great coach Doc was either dropped as a baby or rooted for a hockey team that played in a mall or both.

[Fully Tilted]

If these playoffs don't show you and anyone else with Doc-itis the error of your ways, I don't know what to tell you.

Among other things, we've seen him:

- manage the tech situations with Sheed and Perk

- deal with star players who actually walk away during plays out of petulance

- mix in the second team at exactly the right moments and remove them at the right time, too

- manage all of the egos on this team

- manage his team to series wins over the top two seeds in the playoffs and get within a game of his second title in three years

- get praised by KG and Pierce repeatedly as a great HC

Anyone who doesn't get what a great coach Doc was either dropped as a baby or rooted for a hockey team that played in a mall or both.

Here's where you puff your chest just a little too far.

While I think Doc has done a great job in the playoffs (for the most part and has been better with each series), I'm not going to revise history and change my opinion of how he's coached in the past.

[TommyD420]

If these playoffs don't show you and anyone else with Doc-itis the error of your ways, I don't know what to tell you.

Among other things, we've seen him:

- manage the tech situations with Sheed and Perk

LOL "Sheed. Perk. Don't get techs. That's what ESPN said."

- deal with star players who actually walk away during plays out of petulance
Dealing how? Pretty sure PP and Rondo worked that out on their own. That's what they both said.

- mix in the second team at exactly the right moments and remove them at the right time, too
"Hey! These guys are playing really good! Maybe I'll leave them in!"

- manage all of the egos on this team
I would say, again, the superstars have managed their own egos in order to attempt to win a Championship.

- manage his team to series wins over the top two seeds in the playoffs and get within a game of his second title in three years
Despite screwing up timeouts, substitutions and horrible playcalling the entire playoffs.

- get praised by KG and Pierce repeatedly as a great HC
Because he lets them do whatever they want to do. Thibs is the coach of that team. Everyone knows that. Doc is a cheerleader.

Anyone who doesn't get what a great coach Doc was either dropped as a baby or rooted for a hockey team that played in a mall or both.

Bruins last cup = 1972
Whalers/Hurricanes last cup = 2006

Also pretty sure the Canes knocked the Bruins out (as everyone was screaming "Cup" like every other year) last year. Scott Walker?

[DarrylStingley]

LOL "Sheed. Perk. Don't get techs. That's what ESPN said."


Dealing how? Pretty sure PP and Rondo worked that out on their own. That's what they both said.


"Hey! These guys are playing really good! Maybe I'll leave them in!"


I would say, again, the superstars have managed their own egos in order to attempt to win a Championship.


Despite screwing up timeouts, substitutions and horrible playcalling the entire playoffs.


Because he lets them do whatever they want to do. Thibs is the coach of that team. Everyone knows that. Doc is a cheerleader.



Bruins last cup = 1972
Whalers/Hurricanes last cup = 2006

Also pretty sure the Canes knocked the Bruins out (as everyone was screaming "Cup" like every other year) last year. Scott Walker?
Your thesis that the Celts have effectively coached themselves to the verge of a second title in three years is as laughable as rooting for the Whale.

As to Scott Walker, who cares? That's like a Raiders fan writing "Jack Tatum" as if it means anything.

[TommyD420]

Your thesis that the Celts have effectively coached themselves to the verge of a second title in three years is as laughable as rooting for the Whale.

I didn't say coached themselves. Thibs is the coach. Doc is the cheerleader. And the Whale/Canes have won more Cups in the last 37 years than the Bruins have. I don't think that's laughable at all. I would say the Bruins have defined "laughable". I mean, they blew a 3-0 lead this year to another crap team. Great stuff.

As to Scott Walker, who cares? That's like a Raiders fan writing "Jack Tatum" as if it means anything.

Jack Tatum didn't score the game-winner in a Game 7.

[DarrylStingley]

Here's where you puff your chest just a little too far.

While I think Doc has done a great job in the playoffs (for the most part and has been better with each series), I'm not going to revise history and change my opinion of how he's coached in the past.

How has he coached in the past, FT?

During the Big Three era, he's presided over a team that has been to two finals, plays phenomenal defense, respects the hell out of him and is ripe for dysfunction given all of the stars/egos.

I don't see how it's possible not to credit Doc and say he's a bad coach.

Before the Big Three arrived, Doc wasn't blessed with teams with enough talent to win. It's a players sport and while good coaching can put teams over the edge, it can't make them compete when the players suck, as they did in Boston before the Big 3 came. Look at Pat Riley. He was the Bomb until his personnel in Miami sucked, and then he went upstairs. There are many more examples, including Mike D'Antoni, who was the hot coach and has been the leader of very bad teams in NY.

In any event, Doc is about to win his second title and I'm very grateful to him. If he leaves to be with his family more, it will be very interesting to see how another coach (McHale?) handles the team going forward. I think we might learn a lot more about Doc in his absence.

[DarrylStingley]

I didn't say coached themselves. Thibs is the coach. Doc is the cheerleader. And the Whale/Canes have won more Cups in the last 37 years than the Bruins have. I don't think that's laughable at all. I would say the Bruins have defined "laughable". I mean, they blew a 3-0 lead this year to another crap team. Great stuff.



Jack Tatum didn't score the game-winner in a Game 7.

Boo hoo, a Whalers fan mentioned the goal that eliminated the Bruins in 2009. I'm going to wet my pants.

Remind me: Did the Whale win the cup in 2009? If not, the fact that they played in the tourney longer than the Bs isn't a big deal. Don't get me wrong, it's better to win a series....of course. But when you're getting a chubby about your team coming in a sexier version of second place well....you sound like a MFY fan in 2006. "Yay, Boston massacre....oh, and ignore those pesky Tigers!"

[clubtothehead]

Ребенка, пожалуйста. As I said back when the Celtics locked up the title by signing Sheed: Sheed=duckboats.

For example:

2009: No Sheed
2009: No Duckboats

2010: Sheed
2010: Duckboats on Standby (waitin' just to say hi)

Sheed burying threes from the top of the arc is pretty much the exact same thing as Erin Andrews doing a topless hula dance.

Ahhhhhhhhhhh I'm sorry, but here is where our opinions seriously differ! WTF?:insane:

[clubtothehead]

How has he coached in the past, FT?

During the Big Three era, he's presided over a team that has been to two finals, plays phenomenal defense, respects the hell out of him and is ripe for dysfunction given all of the stars/egos.

I don't see how it's possible not to credit Doc and say he's a bad coach.

Before the Big Three arrived, Doc wasn't blessed with teams with enough talent to win. It's a players sport and while good coaching can put teams over the edge, it can't make them compete when the players suck, as they did in Boston before the Big 3 came. Look at Pat Riley. He was the Bomb until his personnel in Miami sucked, and then he went upstairs. There are many more examples, including Mike D'Antoni, who was the hot coach and has been the leader of very bad teams in NY.

In any event, Doc is about to win his second title and I'm very grateful to him. If he leaves to be with his family more, it will be very interesting to see how another coach (McHale?) handles the team going forward. I think we might learn a lot more about Doc in his absence.


Sounds like Phil Jackson......Jordan...pippen....Shaq.........Kobe. ........

A couple of halfway decent players in that group.

[Mark_Henderson]

I think it's the safe way to go, given that the refs will do everything they can to make the series go to seven.


Yeah, the Celtics aren't getting any calls tomorrow night. No matter what their talking point is, the Celtics know that it's better to take game 6 than to give the Lakers some momentum going into a game 7 home game. The Celtics were all saying that game 4 and game 5 were must win and they'd probably feel weird kicking out the same sound bite again.

Also, although I think the refs will try not to do it, there's at least a chance that Perkins or Rasheed could draw the 7th technical in game 6, so that's an even bigger incentive to close things out in that game.

[TommyD420]

boo hoo, a whalers fan mentioned the goal that eliminated the bruins in 2009. I'm going to wet my pants.

Remind me: Did the whale win the cup in 2009? If not, the fact that they played in the tourney longer than the bs isn't a big deal. Don't get me wrong, it's better to win a series....of course. But when you're getting a chubby about your team coming in a sexier version of second place well....you sound like a mfy fan in 2006. "yay, boston massacre....oh, and ignore those pesky tigers!"

2006 > 1972

[Michigan Dave]

2006 > 1972

Not being in Carolina>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>infinity>>>>>>>being in Carolina>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>infinityXinfinity>>>>anything oohi

[mikiemo83]

Sheed has been generally quite useful in the playoffs since KG and he got real in the showers (Cleveland series).

That he wasn't all that great in the regular season is of no moment. If these Cs win a title, they will be the poster child for the regular season not being that important. As a result, singling out Sheed for a meh regular season aint kosher.

The guy has contributed to winning when the Cs needed to win. And at times, he's done it in a major way.

I like boobies.what scares me is their reward for a 500 2/3 of a season is a possible championship

what next - they play to only make the playffs next year thinking lightening strikes twice?

I ADMIT HIS PLAYOFF PERFORMANCE IS BETTER THAN THE REGUALR SEASON BUT COULD IT HAVE BEEN WORSE (f- cap lock)

I don't buy the "OMFG!!!REGULARSEASON!!!" crap. Who gives a shit if a dude is worthwhile in the regular season?again what next year? 500 for the season?

[DarrylStingley]

Boston.com THIS STORY HAS BEEN FORMATTED FOR EASY PRINTING
The Boston Globe
ON BASKETBALL
It may be now or never

By Gary Washburn, Globe Staff | June 15, 2010

LOS ANGELES — Phil Jackson has spent his coaching career using his Zen philosophy and mental tactics to encourage his teams and agitate opponents. On Sunday night, Jackson tried to twist the Lakers’ two-game skid in the NBA Finals positively.

Jackson said the Lakers simply have to defend home court to win the championship, and in the 2-3-2 format, the team without home-court advantage should have the edge heading into Game 6 because it has played more home games.

Jackson sounds as if he’s trying to boost a Lakers team struggling with confidence and unsure of its effectiveness heading into the most critical game of the series.

Jackson makes a good point, however. The pressure remains on the Celtics, who have to grind out another road win to take their 18th title back to Boston, and it was a little unsettling for Celtics fans when Paul Pierce said Sunday night that Boston has two games to get one.

That’s not the approach the Celtics should take going into tonight’s game. Each game of this series has been a series of its own, with the winner brimming with momentum and the loser reeling.

Remember when the Celtics were pounded in Game 1 after their listless effort? Or when Ray Allen in Game 2 looked like Reggie Miller circa 1995? Or when Derek Fisher was unstoppable in the fourth quarter of Game 3? Or when Big Baby’s drool was freeze-framed on sports websites after Game 4?

Those plots occurred in the past 12 days and there is potentially two more chapters to play out. This is the most dangerous game for Boston because the Lakers could regain that mental edge by registering a lopsided win.

The Lakers are going to start fast tonight, those much-maligned complements to Kobe Bryant canning open shots. Andrew Bynum is going to move around like Dwight Howard and the hamster in Ron Artest’s brain will be striding to perfection.

Jackson is asking his team to play its best game of the series to set up Game 7, and the Celtics do not want to play a Game 7 in LA with Bryant relishing a chance to cement his legacy as the greatest Laker.

Of the 15 teams that have had a 3-2 series lead in the 2-3-2 format, 13 have won the series, and 12 won Game 6. Although the Lakers are returning home, where they are 9-1 this postseason, they are in disarray. Only Bryant played with passion in Game 5 and there has to be at least a passing thought that the Lakers are cursed against the Celtics.

Yet, the Celtics have not fared well coming off big victories this postseason until Sunday. They had to win Game 5 because there was little chance of winning two straight in Los Angeles to take the series. Although they accomplished that goal, they cannot rest on their laurels just because Game 6, theoretically, is not a must win.

In reality, it is.

Close-out games are the toughest to conquer. Doc Rivers is still lamenting the 1994 Finals, when the Knicks lost Games 6 and 7 to the Houston Rockets on the road. Rivers was injured, but John Starks and Patrick Ewing won’t live down missing an opportunity to win a title needing just one win in two games.

“Bottom line is when [the Lakers] won Game 3, from that point on we felt like every game is a must game,’’ Rivers said. “We said it in Game 4, we said it again today, and we’ll say it again. That’s how we have to approach the game. We lost our wiggle room by losing that home game. The Lakers played well enough to have home-court advantage, and so it’s to their advantage. It’s going to be a challenge for us because they’re going to be great, and we’re going to have to beat them at their best because they’re going to be great there, and we can’t expect anything else.’’

The Celtics have to respond to the Lakers’ aggression. They cannot back down or rest players for Game 7 if the game gets out of hand. They can’t plan for two games in Los Angeles because they will lose that bravado, that confidence that allowed them to withstand Bryant’s furious push in Game 5.

So Game 6 is as critical to the Celtics as it is to the Lakers. The Celtics have closed out the past two series in Game 6 with the fear of Game 7 on the road hovering over them. With the 2-3-2 format, that is no longer an issue. For the first time, the Big Three-led Celtics will have to finish off an opponent away from TD Garden, and a team that has had its share of lackadaisical moments this season has to focus on the moment at hand.

That will be their most rigorous challenge this season.

Gary Washburn can be reached at gwashburn@globe.com.
© Copyright 2010 The New York Times Company



As usual, we're one day ahead of the Boston Globe.

And yeah, I'd rather my hockey team have never won a Cup than be reduced to rooting for a team from Carolina after previously rooting for a Mall.

[DarrylStingley]

Tonight in Game 6, Rivers has a chance to win his second championship in three years. Red is the only Celts coach to win more than two. And this season Rivers has done his best coaching since coming to Boston.

From Glen “Big Baby” Davis breaking his thumb on his friend’s head, to Rasheed Wallace admitting he only cared about the playoffs, to injuries to Paul Pierce [stats] and Kevin Garnett, to trade rumors swirling around Ray Allen, there were little brush fires and big raging infernos along the way. Rivers handled it all. Quietly and brilliantly.

This may sound simplistic, but the Celtics this postseason have done it with defense, with effort and intensity, with teamwork and determination -- all tributes to coaching. They have played with a controlled frenzy that opponents can’t match. All of the players -- donkeys and ogres and All-Stars alike -- have done it for Doc.


Just one more person who gets it about Doc....Gerry Callahan of the Herald.

[DarrylStingley]

Whoever said that I was over thinking or splitting hairs or whatever thing was said along those lines, I have one thing to say: Wrong.

The Celts played this game as if they had another one to go. That was their attitude in the immediate aftermath of game 5 and it was apparent all night long tonight.

They sucked in every respect tonight. Doc sucked. The players sucked. The whole organization sucked.

Now we'll find out if they can turn on the switch when it counts the most.

Splitting hairs...my hairy ass.

[Fully Tilted]

Whoever said that I was over thinking or splitting hairs or whatever thing was said along those lines, I have one thing to say: Wrong.

The Celts played this game as if they had another one to go. That was their attitude in the immediate aftermath of game 5 and it was apparent all night long tonight.

They sucked in every respect tonight. Doc sucked. The players sucked. The whole organization sucked.

Now we'll find out if they can turn on the switch when it counts the most.

Splitting hairs...my hairy ass.

I AM RIGHT!!!!!!! I AM RIGHT!!!!!!


I CRITICIZE OTHER PEOPLE FOR DOING THIS EXACT THING WHEN THEY ARE RIGHT BUT THIS TIME......................I AM RIGHT!!!!!! (at least in some subjective reasoning anyway)



Sheed had a great game though. How many fouls? How few points? His moment to seize with Perk going down and your boy shrunk to Spud Webb proportions.

I love how you pick out my phrasing without actually quoting too BTW. You're adorable. Kisses.

[xpatriotpatsfan]

okay i'll say it:

"NEED TO WIN ONE"

[DarrylStingley]

I AM RIGHT!!!!!!! I AM RIGHT!!!!!!


I CRITICIZE OTHER PEOPLE FOR DOING THIS EXACT THING WHEN THEY ARE RIGHT BUT THIS TIME......................I AM RIGHT!!!!!! (at least in some subjective reasoning anyway)



Sheed had a great game though. How many fouls? How few points? His moment to seize with Perk going down and your boy shrunk to Spud Webb proportions.

I love how you pick out my phrasing without actually quoting too BTW. You're adorable. Kisses.
I didn't remember who wrote that and I didn't have the energy to check. Why would I spend two seconds looking for a quote?

The point is simple: It was obvious that the Cs mindset after game 5 was phucked up. No member of a BB would EVER say "we have two games to win one." It's a loser mentality. The fact that Pierce and Rivers said those things was very troubling and a terrible warning sign.

Sadly, I was right about that and I phucking HATE that I was right. I'm disgusted at my beloved Celtics right now. I would have loved to have come to this thread and laughed at myself for being wrong. Loved it all day long, dipdoodle. There's almost nothing better than being too negative and then wrong about one of the Boston teams.

I'm a HUGE Doc fan but I think his coaching since Game 5 and leading up to this game was awful. Again, I'm stunned that Celtics players were talking about having two games. Preposterous BS on their part.

Hello! You can lose a starter -- like Perk -- in the first of those two games. Hello! The other team can get really hot and it can carry over. Hello! When you have a chance to step on another team's throat, you bloody well do it.

[DarrylStingley]

I AM RIGHT!!!!!!! I AM RIGHT!!!!!!


I CRITICIZE OTHER PEOPLE FOR DOING THIS EXACT THING WHEN THEY ARE RIGHT BUT THIS TIME......................I AM RIGHT!!!!!! (at least in some subjective reasoning anyway)

PS, the next time I spend an entire season posting that I was right about a particular signing at every turn....that's when these things will be analogous. If you can't see the difference in pointing something out in the immediate aftermath of a game that was likely the direct result of a poor coaching and team leadership decision -- to treat game 6 like house money -- and incessantly posting about Sheed all season long, then I don't know what to tell you.

Yeah, I admit it, I probably should have dialed down the "I was right" part. My post was INFINITELY more directed at the Celtics organizational decision to look past game 6, which just kills me as a fan than any random poster or set of poster on the internet.

The fact is that horrible managerial decisions in the playoffs are the things that stay with me more than anything else. I can live with Rodney not preventing Tyree from catching that ball off his head; I can live with Papelbon blowing the save against the Angels; I can live with Buckner letting a ball go through his legs (and Stanley not covering).

On the flip side, things like Grady's Boner, BB going for it on 4th and 13 and now this will bother me forever. And so will Ben Dreith stealing a playoff game, for that matter. When management and officials cause my team to lose, it floors me.

And that's what happened last night, in my view. Only in this case, I would expand management to the veteran leadership on this team, as it was apparent from the words of the coaches and players that they were not looking at this game with enough urgency.

Now....one last thing. More than anything, I want the Cs to win game 7 and for part of it to have been that they saved their physical and mental energy for that game. I want to be dead wrong about all of this. And I'll be the first to admit that I was -- though even if it works out, I'll still think that the approach was too risky (witness Perk). But I am 1000000000% more invested in being able to say that I was wrong than anything else.

[anderson]

Depressing statistics on ESPN yesterday. Everytime a 3-2 game has gone to seven like this, the home team has won the series.
Most of the time, away team won in 6.

[DarrylStingley]

Depressing statistics on ESPN yesterday. Everytime a 3-2 game has gone to seven like this, the home team has won the series.
Most of the time, away team won in 6.
Yeah, I admit it, I'm very pessimistic. The Celts, in my view, needed to win last night.

Then again, these kind of stats are given to exceptions....as the Bruins showed us this year, and the MFYs showed us in 04.

[anderson]

Yeah, I admit it, I'm very pessimistic. The Celts, in my view, needed to win last night.

Then again, these kind of stats are given to exceptions....as the Bruins showed us this year, and the MFYs showed us in 04.

Which is why I'm happy that the C's got run over and missed everything. Losing big like this should be a better reason to come out and play angry in game seven and not as demoralizing knowing you played your best and still lost by 5. #silverlining

[tommysgirl]

Just when I started being even remotely complimentary......

Doc Rivers - "I started thinking about Game 7 midway into the 3rd"

Really Doc? :4321: You friggin loser piece of shitass coach. Way to keep your team focused. You suck. You always have and you always will.

And now my worst nightmare is realized....no Perk and useless Sheed has to play a huge role in the deciding game for a championship. He was off to a great start last night for sure. ****.:banghead:

[mikiemo83]

No member of a BB would EVER say "we have two games to win one."
I agree they never would


but I agree because football is a 1 and done playoff format not a 4 out of 7

big difference in approach

losing Perk hurt but they were not winning last night either way



I agree with Anderson, I am glad they Blew chuncks (yes that is my dogs name). From the half on they all were thinking game 7

[PumpDee]

That "game" was so bad, I have a terrible hangover this morning, and I didn't drink a drop of alcohol last night.
:Eason:
blowup

[DarrylStingley]

I agree they never would


but I agree because football is a 1 and done playoff format not a 4 out of 7

big difference in approach

If the Pats had two regular season games left and they just needed to win one to clinch a playoff spot, do you think ANYONE in the Pats organization would say after a big win in week 15 "we have two games to clinch that spot"?

Those situations are totally analogous.

The mindset was foolish, whether it was in a playoff series or on the way to the playoffs, and no one in the Pats organization under Bill would ever express that. Bill would have made sure that the players were ONLY talking and thinking about the next game.

That Doc didn't impart that message, and that guys like Pierce didn't know it intuitively, is very disappointing.

And as fired up and rested as they might be, not having Perk is a problem. And that's not because Sheed IS a problem. It's simply that the Celts bigs are a combination of Baby, Perk and Sheed, and if you remove one of them from the equation, the whole isn't as strong.

[tehrick67]

I'm no basketball expert by any means, but Paul Pierce needs to step up his game.

[tommysgirl]

I'm no basketball expert by any means, but the whole bunch of sorry asses needs to step up his game.
Fixed that for ya.

[PumpDee]

Can I just crawl into a hole until 9 p.m. Thursday? :banghead:

[tommysgirl]

Can I just crawl into a hole until 9 p.m. Thursday? :banghead:
I really was so calm last night. FT was flipping out and I was calm and still holding out hope for a comeback until a few minutes into the 4th.

Then I wake up after another godamn night of 5 hours of sleep to hear Doc say he was thinking about the next game??? **** you Rivers.

[PumpDee]

I really was so calm last night. FT was flipping out and I was calm and still holding out hope for a comeback until a few minutes into the 4th.





Not me.

I was walking to bed with 9 minutes left, and I swear I could hear the song from the end of the incredible Hulk TV show playing.......


http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/882/882786/the-incredible-hulk-1977-20080619001858405-000.jpg



:sulk:

[DarrylStingley]

By the 3rd quarter, Doc should have been thinking about the next game. He could see that his team didn't have it and wasn't in the mindset to come back.

Bad on Doc that the team wasn't ready to play.

But killing him for realizing the obvious and thinking in terms of game 7 once it was obvious that game 6 wasn't happening...I don't see that at all.

[mikiemo83]

If the Pats had two regular season games left and they just needed to win one to clinch a playoff spot, do you think ANYONE in the Pats organization would say after a big win in week 15 "we have two games to clinch that spot"?

Those situations are totally analogous. hell if Sheed and company stapped up during the season not for the 1st month and than again the last 2 weeks into the playoffs than maybe, just maybe, game 6 would be at home


but football and basketball are two different sports during the regular season, I can picture BB telling them win this game and get the next one off to certain players, would that have worked last night - you can not comapre the regular season to the playoffs just like you can not compare a one and done to a 4 out of 7

too different a mind set


what you can compare is game 7 of the nba finals to the Superbowl as it is winner takes all. the Celtics sucked last night - simple fact is they all sucked from the Coaching down to the Scal cheering section on the bench

it matters not what caused this game, it only matters htat they win it


was Doc trying out different looks to use in game 7? who knows

was doc faking different looks he could use in game 7? again who knows

but either way Phil and Kobe have to be prepared for TA at point when Rondo goes down

now is that good coaching or not I don't care...it just better work

[mikiemo83]

we have a pro Doc/anti doc group that also takes sides pro sheed/anti sheed

to be honest I think we both should be some place in the middle forming a cohesive unit that will dismember the Lakers in Game 7***


***/channeling Danny Ainge

[DarrylStingley]

hell if Sheed and company stapped up during the season not for the 1st month and than again the last 2 weeks into the playoffs than maybe, just maybe, game 6 would be at home


but football and basketball are two different sports during the regular season, I can picture BB telling them win this game and get the next one off to certain players, would that have worked last night - you can not comapre the regular season to the playoffs just like you can not compare a one and done to a 4 out of 7

too different a mind set


what you can compare is game 7 of the nba finals to the Superbowl as it is winner takes all. the Celtics sucked last night - simple fact is they all sucked from the Coaching down to the Scal cheering section on the bench

it matters not what caused this game, it only matters htat they win it


was Doc trying out different looks to use in game 7? who knows

was doc faking different looks he could use in game 7? again who knows

but either way Phil and Kobe have to be prepared for TA at point when Rondo goes down

now is that good coaching or not I don't care...it just better work
There is no way would BB ever allow his players in any situation to look past a game that could clinch them a playoff sport or be important to seeding.

Doc did that.

Said otherwise, have you ever heard a Patriots player under BB ever say anything about any game other than the next one?

Regardless of the sport, the hallmark of smart coaching and thinking is taking one game at a time, and not looking ahead.

The Celts didn't do that and the Pats never would have.

[Fully Tilted]

By the 3rd quarter, Doc should have been thinking about the next game. He could see that his team didn't have it and wasn't in the mindset to come back.

Bad on Doc that the team wasn't ready to play.

But killing him for realizing the obvious and thinking in terms of game 7 once it was obvious that game 6 wasn't happening...I don't see that at all.

No, he should have been attempting to keep his team focused on the here and now. In 2008 nearly the same team staged a 24 point comeback on the road against the Lakers in the Finals, in the 4th quarter.


Horseshit.


Focus on anything but the here and now and what's in front of you is wasted energy particularly when you're in the middle of a championship game. Isn't that the premise of this thread, created by yourself???

[mikiemo83]

Regardless of the sport, the hallmark of smart coaching and thinking is taking one game at a time, and not looking ahead.

The Celts didn't do that and the Pats never would have.are you calling Doc a dumb coach?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


I think we are pretty close in our feeling, I just think Football players are more cognizant of their words than Basketball players who are used to talking sh!t about everything and lack an inner monologue

[tommysgirl]

No, he should have been attempting to keep his team focused on the here and now. In 2008 nearly the same team staged a 24 point comeback on the road against the Lakers in the Finals, in the 4th quarter.


Horseshit.


Focus on anything but the here and now and what's in front of you is wasted energy particularly when you're in the middle of a championship game. Isn't that the premise of this thread, created by yourself???
Effin this. 20 friggin minutes left and you throw in the towel? Why not just walk off the court then? That sucks.


The Celts workout facility is in the building next to me and for the last few months there has been a big wooden 18 nailed to a telephone pole as you drive down the road. I chucked it the bird this morning.

[Fully Tilted]

And if he was thinking of the next game in the 3rd quarter, why did he instert Paul Pierce back into the game midway through the 4th quarter?

[Pyxis]

What a nightmare that was. I still cannot get over it.

[DarrylStingley]

No, he should have been attempting to keep his team focused on the here and now. In 2008 nearly the same team staged a 24 point comeback on the road against the Lakers in the Finals, in the 4th quarter.


Horseshit.


Focus on anything but the here and now and what's in front of you is wasted energy particularly when you're in the middle of a championship game. Isn't that the premise of this thread, created by yourself???

Despite your invective, I hear your point. At the same time, the Celtics team last night looked all kinds of beat to me. As to why he put Pierce back in, I assume it was to keep him in rhythm for game 7.

Bottom line is that every situation is different and past comebacks don't ensure present or future comebacks. The feel of the Cs last night by the mid-3rd quarter was awful. They were missing lay-ups, they were forcing things, they were laying a giant egg. Doc saw that and realized it was time to move on.

I hate that he allowed himself and his players to think that way BEFORE game 6, but by the third quarter, the result was obvious...in my mind.

[Fully Tilted]

Despite your invective, I hear your point. At the same time, the Celtics team last night looked all kinds of beat to me. As to why he put Pierce back in, I assume it was to keep him in rhythm for game 7.

Bottom line is that every situation is different and past comebacks don't ensure present or future comebacks. The feel of the Cs last night by the mid-3rd quarter was awful. They were missing lay-ups, they were forcing things, they were laying a giant egg. Doc saw that and realized it was time to move on.

I hate that he allowed himself and his players to think that way BEFORE game 6, but by the third quarter, the result was obvious...in my mind.

Invective? ROFL That's cute and ironic.

The C's didn't look beat in the 4th quarter in 2008, down 24? And there's no need to keep Pierce in rhythym for a game two days later. If that were the case, why didn't he inject all of the starters? I understand you're pro-Rivers but your logic there is irrational in my opinion.

[Pyxis]

They looked utterly lost from the start. Doc didn't do anything to pump them up. Phil looked very effective. Hell a 20 point lead at the half? Someone showed to play but it wasn't the Cs.

[DarrylStingley]

Invective? ROFL That's cute and ironic.

The C's didn't look beat in the 4th quarter in 2008, down 24? And there's no need to keep Pierce in rhythym for a game two days later. If that were the case, why didn't he inject all of the starters? I understand you're pro-Rivers but your logic there is irrational in my opinion.

The laughing dude and the cute and ironic stuff adds nothing to the conversation.

And don't give me the Pro-Rivers nonsense. I was the FIRST to dump all over him for how he handled the Celtics before game 6. In fact, I was on that theme in the aftermath of game 5 and game 6. I call it as I see it with Doc, regardless of whether it's good or bad. And his pre-game coaching of game 6 sucked.

I just differ with you about how he handled game 6 while it was going on.

That there have been huge comebacks in the past doesn't mean one was coming last night. In my view, that team looked beaten. Maybe Doc sensed that they were tired. Maybe he sensed that his OWN mistakes before game 6 had infected the team and he was unwilling to perpetuate them.

As to Pierce's playing time, I dunno. I think Pierce is a gym rat kind of guy who needs to keep playing, whereas other players benefit from more rest. Just a theory and maybe it's wrong, but one approach for all doesn't make sense.

In any event, I'm glad Doc was looking ahead at that point, even though I hated the pre-game approach.

[HomelessJoe]

The C's didn't look beat in the 4th quarter in 2008, down 24?

uh, they were only down by like 2 going into the 4th quarter of that game. the 24 point deficit was in the first half

[Fully Tilted]

The laughing dude and the cute and ironic stuff adds nothing to the conversation.

And don't give me the Pro-Rivers nonsense. I was the FIRST to dump all over him for how he handled the Celtics before game 6. In fact, I was on that theme in the aftermath of game 5 and game 6. I call it as I see it with Doc, regardless of whether it's good or bad. And his pre-game coaching of game 6 sucked.

I just differ with you about how he handled game 6 while it was going on.

That there have been huge comebacks in the past doesn't mean one was coming last night. In my view, that team looked beaten. Maybe Doc sensed that they were tired. Maybe he sensed that his OWN mistakes before game 6 had infected the team and he was unwilling to perpetuate them.

As to Pierce's playing time, I dunno. I think Pierce is a gym rat kind of guy who needs to keep playing, whereas other players benefit from more rest. Just a theory and maybe it's wrong, but one approach for all doesn't make sense.

In any event, I'm glad Doc was looking ahead at that point, even though I hated the pre-game approach.

Neither does your thin skin and sensitivity.

Your non-stop spin and logic to fit any of your opinions and previous points is so fun to watch. Seriously. Now you're not pro-Rivers. Now it makes sense to look ahead. Now it makes sense to insert your best player late in the 4th quarter when you're already allegedly planning for the next game.

Are you dizzy?

[Fully Tilted]

uh, they were only down by like 2 going into the 4th quarter of that game. the 24 point deficit was in the first half

My incorrect facts aside, the point(s) stands. Why give up in a championship game? And if you did give up, why insert your best player back into the game once you've conceded it?

[DarrylStingley]

Neither does your think skin and sensitivity.

Your non-stop spin and logic to fit any of your opinions and previous points is so fun to watch. Seriously. Now you're not pro-Rivers. Now it makes sense to look ahead. Now it makes sense to insert your best player late in the 4th quarter when you're already allegedly planning for the next game.

Are you dizzy?
Not at all.

You have me locked in as Pro-Doc.

And while I do generally like Doc and do think he's a strong coach, you ignore that I hammered him right after game 5 for what he was allowing to be the Cs approach and after game 6.

I'm not remotely afraid to criticize Doc. And I think he did a shit job of coaching after game 5, and it might end up being a big factor in the Cs losing the title.

At the same time, I disagree with you on how he handled game 6. You can personalize this particular point of disagreement all you want but it doesn't change the basic facts that

- I think Doc is a great coach

- I think a great coach f'd up on his post game 5 mantra (like another great coach f'd up on 4th and 13, for example)

- I think giving up on game 6 in the third quarter was wise

- Your command of the facts regarding the 24 point comeback is off, as HJ points out

That you really, really, really think I'm wrong about giving up in the third quarter doesn't make you right or me inconsistent in my views.

Last, there's no spinning here. I have no agenda re Doc. If I think he's doing well, I'll say it; if I think he's sucking it up, I'll say it.

Really last: I've been critical many times here about the Cs failure to have better end of quarter plays and how many times have I written stuff like "last night was a good night for the Doc Haters or the Sheed Haters"? If you were being intellectually honest, you'd admit that I've been open about points that go against my basic belief many times, just as I was about my post-game 5 comments.

[Fully Tilted]

Not at all.

Are you sure?

You have me locked in as Pro-Doc.

Why would I think that?

I think Doc is a great coach

Oh, right.

And while I do generally like Doc and do think he's a strong coach, you ignore that I hammered him right after game 5 for what he was allowing to be the Cs approach and after game 6.

Just because you've recently been objective of him, doesn't mean you're not "Pro-Doc Rivers".

At the same time, I disagree with you on how he handled game 6. You can personalize this particular point of disagreement all you want but it doesn't change the basic facts that...........I think giving up on game 6 in the third quarter was wise.................That you really, really, really think I'm wrong about giving up in the third quarter doesn't make you right or me inconsistent in my views.

So you began a thread saying that you did not like that it appeared that the team's mindset was that they were focused on a 50% win rate over the next two games, then ran to post that you were right and anyone who dismissed your opinion was wrong because it was obvious (of course you have no way of knowing this) that they approached this game too casually and then when it's admitted by the coach, it's a smart move?

Your inconsistency speaks for itself. Just because you really, really, really think I'm wrong, will never make you right.


Your command of the facts regarding the 24 point comeback is off, as HJ points out

And irrelevant to the overall point.


Really last: I've been critical many times here about the Cs failure to have better end of quarter plays and how many times have I written stuff like "last night was a good night for the Doc Haters or the Sheed Haters"?

Funny, I always read those as pre-emptive strikes to soften the stance of Sheed and Doc haters before they had the opportunity to bash him. :shrug:

If you were being intellectually honest, you'd admit that I've been open about points that go against my basic belief many times, just as I was about my post-game 5 comments.

If you were truly being objective and critical you would admit that conceding a championship game when there's still an opportunity to win it is foolish and not only that but re-inserting your best player a full quarter after reaching this mindset is both the epitome of stupidity and telling of how awful your approach and mindset is as a coach, during this game.

[DarrylStingley]

1. Just because you've recently been objective of him, doesn't mean you're not "Pro-Doc Rivers".

2. Funny, I always read those as pre-emptive strikes to soften the stance of Sheed and Doc haters before they had the opportunity to bash him. :shrug:

3. If you were truly being objective and critical you would admit that conceding a championship game when there's still an opportunity to win it is foolish and not only that but re-inserting your best player a full quarter after reaching this mindset is both the epitome of stupidity and telling of how awful your approach and mindset is as a coach, during this game.
Here are my last three comments in response to you on this topic.

1. Recently been objective? I've noted at various times that I've thought his end of quarter plays sucked, games when he didn't coach well and that his performance right after game 5 (when most people were only seeing the positive) were not what I wanted to see. As with Belichick, I note the good when I see it and the bad when I see it, and my track record here with both of them (and Francona, for that matter) shows that. This isn't a recent thing.

2. That you even think about "pre-emptive" strikes is bizarre in the extreme. Sheed and Doc have had some stinkers this year, and I'm not so invested in pro-Sheed or pro-Doc that I'm afraid to admit it. You clearly are bent on only seeing the bad in me, and that's fine, we don't all need to be friends, but if you want to be just a little bit fair, you'll admit that I call things as I see them, whether it fits my thesis or not. And even if you don't admit that, you'll have to admit that there was NOTHING to pre-empt after game 5, when I criticized him for allowing the Cs to be thinking about "two games to win one." Most people were praising him then.

3. So your view is that if I don't agree with you, I'm not being truly objective and critical. That's great. As it happens, I well understand your basic point -- conceding a game early is bad and foolish. As it happens, I simply disagree and thought last night was an exceptional circumstance. I saw what I guess Doc saw: A team that was beaten in all respects, and a team that was very tired.

Have a great day and go Cs.

[mikiemo83]

only reason I can see Paul out there was he asked to go back in...other than that, especially after the Perk injury, it was stupid based on conceding the game in the mid 3rd

[Fully Tilted]

Here are my last three comments in response to you on this topic.

1. Recently been objective? I've noted at various times that I've thought his end of quarter plays sucked, games when he didn't coach well and that his performance right after game 5 (when most people were only seeing the positive) were not what I wanted to see. As with Belichick, I note the good when I see it and the bad when I see it, and my track record here with both of them (and Francona, for that matter) shows that. This isn't a recent thing.

My overall impression of your feelings towards Doc are very pro-Doc. Is this misguided?

2. That you even think about "pre-emptive" strikes is bizarre in the extreme. Sheed and Doc have had some stinkers this year, and I'm not so invested in pro-Sheed or pro-Doc that I'm afraid to admit it. You clearly are bent on only seeing the bad in me, and that's fine, we don't all need to be friends, but if you want to be just a little bit fair, you'll admit that I call things as I see them, whether it fits my thesis or not. And even if you don't admit that, you'll have to admit that there was NOTHING to pre-empt after game 5, when I criticized him for allowing the Cs to be thinking about "two games to win one." Most people were praising him then.

Is it? Based on your past behavior and actions, it's tough for me to come to rational conclusions with your actions. I've seen very irrational, bizarre and extreme behavior from you in the past. Not sure, this line of thinking is that far-fetched.

Your post-game 5 assesment then backpedaling is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that you are changing your argument to fit the current topic. You started a thread worried that the team was thinking of this series as a "Wine one-of-two" scenario. Then Doc admits this was his thinking from mid-third quarter on and you're now praising him for that. And you still have (neither does Doc) no rational explanation for why he would put Paul Pierce back into a game that he had conceded early.


3. So your view is that if I don't agree with you, I'm not being truly objective and critical. That's great. As it happens, I well understand your basic point -- conceding a game early is bad and foolish. As it happens, I simply disagree and thought last night was an exceptional circumstance. I saw what I guess Doc saw: A team that was beaten in all respects, and a team that was very tired.

Have a great day and go Cs.

ROFL You were the one who came in here immediately after the game to tell anyone who disagreed with you about this very thread, that they were wrong. All I've said is that just because you believe I'm wrong or you want me to be wrong, will never affect how right/wrong you are.

If Doc truly saw a beaten team then he should have never risked injury to his best player by reinserting him into the game. One starter was alerady down. This is basic NBA coaching and happens all the time. The fact that Doc failed in this regard tells me he coached a shitty ****ing game last night.

Let's be honest. I'm pretty sure you don't give two shits about what kind of day I'm having. Save the formalities, please.

[Fully Tilted]

only reason I can see Paul out there was he asked to go back in...other than that, especially after the Perk injury, it was stupid based on conceding the game in the mid 3rd

The coach makes the final decision. He's accountable no matter what the player says.

[DarrylStingley]

Let's be honest. I'm pretty sure you don't give two shits about what kind of day I'm having. Save the formalities, please.
As I wrote above, I'm done talking about the points of disagreement as we've both said it all. Nothing new to add and certainly nothing that would interest anyone reading this.

Just agree to disagree on my end.

As to your last shot, I differ there, too. As much as I think you can be a dick at times, the fact remains that we share a passion for the Celtics (and the Pats), and this is kind of a crappy morning for all of us who have that passion. So I wish you well today and hope we have a happier context in which to argue on Friday morning.