Worst Umpire blunder in History???

[BostonTim]

Detroit. Not sure. Developing. Looks like it should have been a perfect game for Galarraga. Last play looks like unquestionable 27th out.

We'll be hearing and seeing this.

Cheers, Boston Tim

[Michigan Dave]

I love it. All of the douchebags around here are up in arms. I wish there was a "like" feature for Umpire Jim Joyce on Facebook.

[BostonTim]

I love it. All of the douchebags around here are up in arms. I wish there was a "like" feature for Umpire Jim Joyce on Facebook.

Gonna be a big damn story, MD. No way around it.

Cheers, BostonTim

[Michigan Dave]

Gonna be a big damn story, MD. No way around it.

Cheers, BostonTim

I went to the Verlander no-hitter, so I'm just happy 20,000+ douches here don't get to see something better.

I don't know. It's baseball...not like he messed up something important like football or anything.

Plus, don't ties go to the runner?

[TITAN126]

It wasn't a tie though - it wasn't even close. Definitely feel bad for Galarraga, especially since he was optioned to Triple-A earlier in the year, comes back and throws a perfect game, but gets robbed of it by the ump. Baseball umps are the most incompetent in sports, and this is just one example why.

[Michigan Dave]

It wasn't a tie though - it wasn't even close. Definitely feel bad for Galarraga, especially since he was optioned to Triple-A earlier in the year, comes back and throws a perfect game, but gets robbed of it by the ump. Baseball umps are the most incompetent in sports, and this is just one example why.

Baseball umps are pretty damn good. They usually make the right call. That's a tough gig.

[Costanza]

When I took a class to be a certified coach, we were given Umpire sensitivity training, lol.

We were given a 30 question test at the end and the only one I got wrong was-

T/F- an umpire's call is debatable?

lol

[Steve-o]

Yeah, I'm a Tigers fan. :nutpunch:

This will be remembered as the call that brought instant replay to MLB.

[Steve-o]

:nutpunch:

[Number Cruncher]

Maybe this will lead to some of the azzhole purists allowing a little technology into the game....


The 86 Mets don't happen without a bad call at first base against the Astros in the NLCS.

[BostonTim]

"I cost the kid a perfect game."

Joyce man's up. He's devastated. I feel almost as bad for him as for Galarraga.

Funny how tragic a simple game can seem at times.

Cheers, BostonTim

[TITAN126]

Baseball umps are pretty damn good. They usually make the right call. That's a tough gig.

There are some that are good, but most of them are average at best. I don't know how many times I'll be watching a game and they'll f*ck up a call. I know it's tough, but that's a pretty lame excuse.

[Michigan Dave]

There are some that are good, but most of them are average at best. I don't know how many times I'll be watching a game and they'll f*ck up a call. I know it's tough, but that's a pretty lame excuse.

They grade out at something like 98 or 99%, I think I read. That's crazy. I don't know how many times they slow-mo replay things that are so close, and they nail it in real time in a split second.

[Number Cruncher]

yeah, its a thankless job, but some of these guys think folks are there to see them....

paging joe west...

[HomelessJoe]

This will be remembered as the call that brought instant replay to MLB.

Not a chance.

[grog]

It wasn't a perfect game. The umpire screwed up. To bad, how sad. When does preseason start?

[TITAN126]

They grade out at something like 98 or 99%, I think I read. That's crazy. I don't know how many times they slow-mo replay things that are so close, and they nail it in real time in a split second.

I have a really hard time believing that they're at 99%. Maybe that's because there are a lot of obvious calls in baseball. Like if you hit a pop up and someone catches it, that's obviously an out. Do you have a link to the article/study where you read that?

[OSUBuckeye]

I have no idea how Joyce missed that call. It wasn't even close like when Don Deckinger screwed the Cards in the 1985 WS.

As for instant replay, no chance. The human element is & always will be part of baseball.

[TheBostonJay]

I've been present for one no-hitter and one perfecto. Sucks for the fans that were there in person.

:coffee:

[Michigan Dave]

I have a really hard time believing that they're at 99%. Maybe that's because there are a lot of obvious calls in baseball. Like if you hit a pop up and someone catches it, that's obviously an out. Do you have a link to the article/study where you read that?

No, it was just something that I remember from a while ago. Maybe it was on the radio. I don't know the accuracy of that, it just has stuck with me. And they seem to make good decisions most of the time. But, given your context, if they count balls, strikes, every out...I can see where there would be an inflated percentage of correct calls.

[Costanza]

No, it was just something that I remember from a while ago. Maybe it was on the radio. I don't know the accuracy of that, it just has stuck with me. And they seem to make good decisions most of the time. But, given your context, if they count balls, strikes, every out...I can see where there would be an inflated percentage of correct calls.

Juuuuuuuuuuuuust a bit outside..........

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/images/05/29/uecker_clicks.jpg

[patriots pam]

No, it was just something that I remember from a while ago. Maybe it was on the radio. I don't know the accuracy of that, it just has stuck with me. And they seem to make good decisions most of the time. But, given your context, if they count balls, strikes, every out...I can see where there would be an inflated percentage of correct calls.
I saw an epi about umps on Sports Science a while back, and remember that they stated this kind of accuracy rate. I don't recall the exact % now, but it was very high 90s. I don't remember if they said where that stat came from, though, so I guess we're kinda back to square one...:shrug:
Posted via Mobile Device

[PatsFan09]

Of course, if the umpires were judged on what the strike zone actually is, they'd only be pulling a 60% or so. God, I hate how the strike zone is called by umps these days.

It's from the elbows to the knees, folks. Pure and simple. Not from the waist to the knees.

[babalu87]

I have no idea how Joyce missed that call. It wasn't even close like when Don Deckinger screwed the Cards in the 1985 WS.

THIS is the worst call in baseball

http://anonymouscommunist.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/denkinger.jpg

As for instant replay, no chance. The human element is & always will be part of baseball.

Ah, they have replay for homerun calls :thumb:

[PatsFan09]

Listen to Joyce... man, he's distraught over this.

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=8632475

[PatsFan09]

Btw, according to Galarraga, Joyce was literally crying when he apologized him, face-to-face. That's manning up right there (and yes, I know... Manning cries a lot, so it's an appropriate term).

[babalu87]

Btw, according to Galarraga, Joyce was literally crying when he apologized him, face-to-face. That's manning up right there (and yes, I know... Manning cries a lot, so it's an appropriate term).

ROFL Manning Up ROFL

Selig should do the right thing
But he wont

[sonsofkraftybob]

Not a chance.I disagree. This was HUGE! And it will never be forgetten. They will have to institute a rule in the offseason where you get 1 challenge a game or something like that. Every other sport has replay to some degree and I think the outcry from the fans will leave MLB no choice. Shit, I bet Selig overturns the call and makes it a no hitter. The play wasn't even close. It was routine. It was automatic. They had him by a good yard, if not more.

I will give Joyce credit for manning up though. Thats gotta be a hard thing to do to admit to 350 million people, that they were right and you were wrong but you were wrong on the biggest call of your umpiring career.

[babalu87]

http://espn.go.com/media/mlb/1999/1017/photo/a_stretch.jpg

Pretty bad too

[Fully Tilted]

Yeah, I'm a Tigers fan. :nutpunch:

This will be remembered as the call that brought instant replay to MLB.

Maybe this will lead to some of the azzhole purists allowing a little technology into the game....


The 86 Mets don't happen without a bad call at first base against the Astros in the NLCS.

All of this.

[mikiemo83]

http://espn.go.com/media/mlb/1999/1017/photo/a_stretch.jpg

Pretty bad toonice to see no sissy slap going on in that picture

[PatsFan09]

I honestly don't think that Selig will overturn it. Honestly, I can't see how he can (even though it's one of the most egregious calls in sports history). Baseball relies on umpires, and by changing a call, even though the call was incorrect, is a precedent that I don't think anyone in the MLB head office wants to set.

[Fully Tilted]

I honestly don't think that Selig will overturn it. Honestly, I can't see how he can (even though it's one of the most egregious calls in sports history). Baseball relies on umpires, and by changing a call, even though the call was incorrect, is a precedent that I don't think anyone in the MLB head office wants to set.

This would create a very dangerous precedent. It shouldn't happen.

[HomelessJoe]

I disagree. This was HUGE! And it will never be forgetten. They will have to institute a rule in the offseason where you get 1 challenge a game or something like that. Every other sport has replay to some degree and I think the outcry from the fans will leave MLB no choice. Shit, I bet Selig overturns the call and makes it a no hitter. The play wasn't even close. It was routine. It was automatic. They had him by a good yard, if not more.

I will give Joyce credit for manning up though. Thats gotta be a hard thing to do to admit to 350 million people, that they were right and you were wrong but you were wrong on the biggest call of your umpiring career.

People sure do love perfect games. Umps have blown calls that cost teams playoff games, which I consider WAY more important than a perfect game, and they didnt change it. I see no reason why a call that ended up having no impact on the outcome of the game should change the rules.

[Fully Tilted]

People sure do love perfect games. Umps have blown calls that cost teams playoff games, which I consider WAY more important than a perfect game, and they didnt change it. I see no reason why a call that ended up having no impact on the outcome of the game should change the rules.

But these calls are magnified when it occurs for the final out. Any time a blown call happens prior to the would-be final out the cop-out excuse is that the game went on and good teams over come bad calls. What if it's the last call to seal a game?

This will be made into a pretty big ordeal considering that up until this season, perfect games have been extremely rare. Only an unassisted triple play is rarer in baseball to my knowledge.

[carlgarrett]

I don't know how you can over turn it? It didn't even change the out come of the game. Just a personal accomplishment. Wouldn't you have to review EVERY bad call if you over turn this one?

[jaychamp]

It's from the elbows to the knees, folks. Pure and simple. Not from the waist to the knees.
Are you saying the strikezone is from the elbows to the knees? I was expecting some sarcastic smiley or something after that statement

Edit: Maybe you're saying the height of their elbows if their arms were at their sides? I guess that makes more sense, but that's not how they determine the strike zone.

[Costanza]

Are you saying the strikezone is from the elbows to the knees? I was expecting some sarcastic smiley or something after that statement

armpits/elbows

Same thing.

[DarrylStingley]

ESPN is reporting that the call is being considered by MLB.

[mikiemo83]

Rules of Interest

Rule 2.00 - The Strike Zone
The Strike Zone is defined as that area over homeplate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the hollow beneath the kneecap. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/rules_interest.jsp

The Strike Zone: A historical timeline

1996 - The Strike Zone is expanded on the lower end, moving from the top of the knees to the bottom of the knees.

1988 - "The Strike Zone is that area over home plate the upper limit of which is a horizontal line at the midpoint between the top of the shoulders and the top of the uniform pants, and the lower level is a line at the top of the knees. The Strike Zone shall be determined from the batter's stance as the batter is prepared to swing at a pitched ball."

1969 - "The Strike Zone is that space over home plate which is between the batter's armpits and the top of his knees when he assumes a natural stance. The umpire shall determine the Strike Zone according to the batter's usual stance when he swings at a pitch."

1963 - "The Strike Zone is that space over home plate which is between the top of the batter's shoulders and his knees when he assumes his natural stance. The umpire shall determine the Strike Zone according to the batter's usual stance when he swings at a pitch."

1957 - "A strike is a legal pitch when so called by the umpire which (a) is struck at by the batter and is missed; (b) enters the Strike Zone in flight and is not struck at; (c) is fouled by the batter when he has less than two strikes at it; (d) is bunted foul; (e) touches the batter as he strikes at it; (f) touches the batter in flight in the Strike Zone; or (g) becomes a foul tip. Note: (f) was added to the former rule and definition."

1950 - "The Strike Zone is that space over home plate which is between the batter's armpits and the top of his knees when he assumes his natural stance."

1910 - "With the bases unoccupied, any ball delivered by the pitcher while either foot is not in contact with the pitcher's plate shall be called a ball by the umpire."

1907 - "A fairly delivered ball is a ball pitched or thrown to the bat by the pitcher while standing in his position and facing the batsman that passes over any portion of the home base, before touching the ground, not lower than the batsman's knee, nor higher than his shoulder. For every such fairly delivered ball, the umpire shall call one strike.
"An unfairly delivered ball is a ball delivered to the bat by the pitcher while standing in his position and facing the batsman that does not pass over any portion of the home base between the batsman's shoulder and knees, or that touches the ground before passing home base, unless struck at by the batsman. For every unfairly delivered ball the umpire shall call one ball."

1901 - "A foul hit ball not caught on the fly is a strike unless two strikes have already been called." (NOTE: Adopted by National League in 1901; American League in 1903)

1899 - "A foul tip by the batter, caught by the catcher while standing within the lines of his position is a strike."

1894 - "A strike is called when the batter makes a foul hit, other than a foul tip, while attempting a bunt hit that falls or rolls upon foul ground between home base and first or third bases."

1887 - "The batter can no longer call for a 'high' or 'low' pitch.
"A (strike) is defined as a pitch that 'passes over home plate not lower than the batsman's knee, nor higher than his shoulders.'"

1876 - "The batsman, on taking his position, must call for a 'high,' 'low,' or 'fair' pitch, and the umpire shall notify the pitcher to deliver the ball as required; such a call cannot be changed after the first pitch is delivered."
High - pitches over the plate between the batter's waist and shoulders
Low - pitches over the plate between the batter's waist and at least one foot from the ground.
Fair - pitches over the plate between the batter's shoulders and at least one foot from the ground.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/strike_zone.jsp

[midgar8784]

ESPN is reporting that the call is being considered by MLB.

Considered for what? Changing it? Not sure I like that. I would not want to be the pitcher that forever would be the guy that got the perfect game after they changed the call.

[Costanza]

Considered for what? Changing it? Not sure I like that. I would not want to be the pitcher that forever would be the guy that got the perfect game after they changed the call.

They didn't have to change the call, just make it right.

[PatsFan09]

Considered for what? Changing it? Not sure I like that. I would not want to be the pitcher that forever would be the guy that got the perfect game after they changed the call.

They didn't have to change the call, just make it right.

They can't.

Just like when everyone wanted MLB to change Jeter's not-a-home-run-that-was-called-one.

And that was VASTLY more important than Galarraga's perfect game last night. That was a playoff game that may have profoundly altered the course of that Orioles/Yankees series.

[midgar8784]

They didn't have to change the call, just make it right.

You know what is weird. If I am an ump, that guy would have to have been so damn safe it would not even be funny. Anything close at all, I am calling him out, it was not even close, he was out by a yard. Just weird stuff.

[RoadGrader]

MLB thrives on controversy and the resultant chaos

they have to maintain our interest for 100 and 62 f***in' games not including playoffs and the WS being played @ Xmas time for gawds sakes

if Tigers ownership didn't already slip Jim Joyce an envelope for saving them paying Galarraga a perfect-game performance bonus then Selig prolly will for keeping the game "~~ human ~~" for all the bed-wetting basicball "purists" out there :D

[TheBostonJay]

You know what is weird. If I am an ump, that guy would have to have been so damn safe it would not even be funny. Anything close at all, I am calling him out, it was not even close, he was out by a yard. Just weird stuff.

That.

See bases loaded 3-2 pitch to Dunn with Big Unit's 300th on the line. The only way that would have been called a ball is if it was five feet outside.

[DarrylStingley]

This may have been mentioned up thread but Jim Joyce is the same guy who blew the Bellhorn homer call in 2004/game 6 at the Toilet.

And the crew chief who presided over the crew that overruled him? None other than everyone's favorite whipping boy, Joe West.

[babalu87]

Considered for what? Changing it? Not sure I like that. I would not want to be the pitcher that forever would be the guy that got the perfect game after they changed the call.

Well then they should probably take away the Patriots first Superbowl then


Tuck Rule
Spawned a Dynasty

[Costanza]

well then they should probably take away the patriots first superbowl then


tuck rule
spawned a dynasty

5...4...3...2..1....................

[taltos]

I don't see why the call should not be changed to the correct call since it happened at the end of the game and the pitcher got batter #28. How is this any different than when a recent commissioner stripped some no hitters out of the record book due to his interpretation of the rules?

[tommysgirl]

5...4...3...2..1....................
I am STUNNED it has not happened yet.:shrug:

[midgar8784]

Well then they should probably take away the Patriots first Superbowl then


Tuck Rule
Spawned a Dynasty

Yes because they are both the same. One happened in a football game where there was a rule in place to do replay, the other was a baseball game and the call was changed the next day or days after. Yep, good call.

[midgar8784]

I don't see why the call should not be changed to the correct call since it happened at the end of the game and the pitcher got batter #28. How is this any different than when a recent commissioner stripped some no hitters out of the record book due to his interpretation of the rules?

Because then every team in the majors would run back and want every game checked to make sure they won without any bad calls. Things can be done in game, its hard to do them in days after. Its the same in the NFL, the league might apoligize the next day for a faceguarding call, but they are not changing it.

[taltos]

You missed the point that it was the last out in the game and was the perfect place to make a corrected call.:coffee:

[midgar8784]

You missed the point that it was the last out in the game and was the perfect place to make a corrected call.:coffee:

I didnt miss the point, but it has happened before, is what I'm saying. There have been missed calls for last outs in games. You have to make the rule first and use it in games. I know it sucks, but it would stir up a ton of crap if it was changed.

[Steve-o]

I think this will forever be more of a controversy if it isn't overturned than if it is. Everyone knows that was a perfect game. That said, the precedent it would set would be tough to swallow.

On a different note, I'm wondering what they're doing to pitchers down on Toledo. Scherzer got sent down, gets called back up and strikes out 14 in 5 2/3 innings in his first game back. Galarraga gets sent down, comes up and throws a perfect game.

Maybe they should send all of their pitchers to Toledo for a week.
Posted via Mobile Device

[babalu87]

Yes because they are both the same. One happened in a football game where there was a rule in place to do replay, the other was a baseball game and the call was changed the next day or days after. Yep, good call.

So there is a rule in baseball whereas they call the player safe when he is still three feet away from the base and the ball is already there.................cool.

[O_P_T]

As far as how he could have blown the call in the first place, umpires normally are watching the first base bag to see when the batter makes contact and listening for the sound of the ball hitting the glove.

If the feet get there before the sound he's safe if the sound is heard before the feet, he's out.

The catch was a bit of a snow cone so it's possible it didn't make a distinct sound and that's why he missed it.

Not an excuse, simply a possible reason why the wrong call was initially made.

As far as overturning things, it has happened before.

One I am familiar with is the George Brett pine tar HR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tar_Incident).

[midgar8784]

So there is a rule in baseball whereas they call the player safe when he is still three feet away from the base and the ball is already there.................cool.

huh? I said there is no rule for instant replays on base running.

[midgar8784]

As far as how he could have blown the call in the first place, umpires normally are watching the first base bag to see when the batter makes contact and listening for the sound of the ball hitting the glove.

If the feet get there before the sound he's safe if the sound is heard before the feet, he's out.

The catch was a bit of a snow cone so it's possible it didn't make a distinct sound and that's why he missed it.

Not an excuse, simply a possible reason why the wrong call was initially made.

As far as overturning things, it has happened before.

One I am familiar with is the George Brett pine tar HR (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tar_Incident).



Yes, but it was while the game was going on, it didnt happen the next day. Thats the point I was making. I know things have been overturned, but they usually do not do it the next day.

[babalu87]

huh? I said there is no rule for instant replays on base running.

There is also no rules to change an out back into a homerun

George Brett is on line one

[midgar8784]

I think this will forever be more of a controversy if it isn't overturned than if it is. Everyone knows that was a perfect game. That said, the precedent it would set would be tough to swallow.

On a different note, I'm wondering what they're doing to pitchers down on Toledo. Scherzer got sent down, gets called back up and strikes out 14 in 5 2/3 innings in his first game back. Galarraga gets sent down, comes up and throws a perfect game.

Maybe they should send all of their pitchers to Toledo for a week.
Posted via Mobile Device

Thats the thing. Overturning it now would set off the fireworks. You would have teams all over wanting games changed. The problem is the rule, and maybe this in the end will turn out to be something that finally changes Seligs mind.

[midgar8784]

There is also no rules to change an out back into a homerun

George Brett is on line one

For the 4th time, that happened while the game was still going on, not the next day. Not sure why you didnt understand that the first 3 times I said it. If you change something in the game, thats fine, if you do it a week later, you have issues.

[taltos]

The out was changed back to a home run by AM League President Lee McPhail following a hearing of the Royals' protest of the ruling made on the field. The protest most certainly was not heard the day of the game.

[babalu87]

For the 4th time, that happened while the game was still going on, not the next day. Not sure why you didnt understand that the first 3 times I said it. If you change something in the game, thats fine, if you do it a week later, you have issues.

You should REALLY educate yourself



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tar_Incident

[midgar8784]

The out was changed back to a home run by AM League President Lee McPhail following a hearing of the Royals' protest of the ruling made on the field. The protest most certainly was not heard the day of the game.

So will this be protested? I still think its different, one could argue the rule of the pine tar or how it was not against the rules. This was an ump making a opinion call. I still think its different. If not then I think we would see this more. There have been other bad calls, even in playoff games.

[Steve-o]

The Brett example does make me think it might be overturned. Good thing the next batter didn't get a hit or this would be even more tricky.
Posted via Mobile Device

[babalu87]

So will this be protested? I still think its different, one could argue the rule of the pine tar or how it was not against the rules. This was an ump making a opinion call. I still think its different. If not then I think we would see this more. There have been other bad calls, even in playoff games.

http://www.flamanfitness.com/catalog/images/fit/product/spindoctor.jpg

[DarrylStingley]

My bet is that baseball wont change this. My hope is that it immediately leads to replay being added to the game in a real way.

[PatsFan09]

I think this will forever be more of a controversy if it isn't overturned than if it is. Everyone knows that was a perfect game. That said, the precedent it would set would be tough to swallow.

On a different note, I'm wondering what they're doing to pitchers down on Toledo. Scherzer got sent down, gets called back up and strikes out 14 in 5 2/3 innings in his first game back. Galarraga gets sent down, comes up and throws a perfect game.

Maybe they should send all of their pitchers to Toledo for a week.
Posted via Mobile Device

I understand your first point, but your second point is more important overall, I think

The problem, in my opinion, is that people who are clamoring for this seem to be forgetting that this is a personal achievement, and that there have been MANY more blown calls that have decided games, playoff games, and World Series games. As awful as this is, it's a horrible idea to set any kind of precedent.

[midgar8784]

My bet is that baseball wont change this. My hope is that it immediately leads to replay being added to the game in a real way.

Yeah thats my take on it. If it was a rule that was questioned, maybe, but a ump making a call on a play? I mean hell, there are bad calls everyday, this one was at a very bad time, but if it was in the 4th inning of a 8-2 game, nobody would really care.

[midgar8784]

I understand your first point, but your second point is more important overall, I think

The problem, in my opinion, is that people who are clamoring for this seem to be forgetting that this is a personal achievement, and that there have been MANY more blown calls that have decided games, playoff games, and World Series games. As awful as this is, it's a horrible idea to set any kind of precedent.

OMG, we agree!!

[3 Point Stan]

I didn't even know that the commissioner had the power to overturn a call like this until moments ago. I have 2 thoughts on the matter:

1) I believe it to be conclusive that the call was blown. The umpire even admits it and I've yet to hear anyone of authority in or associated with MLB claim the call was correct. Where it would have been the last out in the game, the call should be overturned.

2) I can't recall the last time the commission himself exercised the authority to overturn an umpires call. The fact this the power to do so has existed, yet rarely if ever been executed is somewhat of a testament to MLB and it's umpiring as a whole. While some view this is opening up a can of worms toward the downward spiral of instant replay, I see it different. Whether it's kind of over-inflated, MLB could take the stance this it is because of it's umpires incredible track-record that the commissioner has not had to invoke the power to overturn an umpire's ruling.

I also imagine that every Big League owner would be consulted on their opinion to the matter before such a ruling was made. I'd be stunned if it wasn't unanimous to overturn it but I also don't imagine Selig would overturn it unless he had blessings from ownership.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

[taltos]

So will this be protested? I still think its different, one could argue the rule of the pine tar or how it was not against the rules. This was an ump making a opinion call. I still think its different. If not then I think we would see this more. There have been other bad calls, even in playoff games.This can't be protested because safe/out is a judgement call. The ruling on the bat was that there was no penalty in the rules other than having the bat taken out of play and the bat had to be protested prior to the home run. Last night is about the only case where I could see overturning a call since it happened on the last out of the game and you have an umpire going public with the fact that he butchered the call.

[midgar8784]

This can't be protested because safe/out is a judgement call. The ruling on the bat was that there was no penalty in the rules other than having the bat taken out of play and the bat had to be protested prior to the home run. Last night is about the only case where I could see overturning a call since it happened on the last out of the game and you have an umpire going public with the fact that he butchered the call.

You just made my point, it was different than the brett thing. Thing is like pats09 said, this was a personal achievment, not who is going to the world series. It didnt even cost the game, is this somthing they want to set a standard for?

[taltos]

Making things right if possible should be a standard that is adhered to.

[3 Point Stan]

Making things right if possible should be a standard that is adhered to.

Perfectly put, and in one sentence. Well done.

[3 Point Stan]

You just made my point, it was different than the brett thing. Thing is like pats09 said, this was a personal achievment, not who is going to the world series. It didnt even cost the game, is this somthing they want to set a standard for?

As opposed to.... say.... the false impression to casual sport fans that MLB officiating is mediocre or sub-par in anyway when it actually ranks among the best of the major sports in reality?

Not sure which is more harmful in the long-run. 99% of the folks won't remember Jim Joyce's name by the end of this season. But they won't ever forget that an umpire made this monumental gaffe.

[mgoblue101415]

Maybe this will lead to some of the azzhole purists allowing a little technology into the game....






Watching the replay of that last night I turn to the hubby (an azzhole purist) and say "Okay, so NOW don't you think replay should be put in?" Hubby, "No."


:shake:


And bullshit he feels bad about that call. It wasn't even close. The ball got there at least 2 steps before Donald reached the bag. It was no where near being a close call. That was Joyce purposely putting an end to a perfect game. There is no way I don't believe that. Not when it was so fricken obvious Donald was out. Minimum 2 steps is NOT close.

If Selig has any balls (which is doubtful) he reverses that call and gives Galarraga his perfect game.

[midgar8784]

As opposed to.... say.... the false impression to casual sport fans that MLB officiating is mediocre or sub-par in anyway when it actually ranks among the best of the major sports in reality?

Not sure which is more harmful in the long-run. 99% of the folks won't remember Jim Joyce's name by the end of this season. But they won't ever forget that an umpire made this monumental gaffe.

I am talking about the standard of changing a play for a perfect game that means nothing more than self satisfaction. Is that what you want the standard to be? Because if so, there will be 50 guys lined up outside his office the next day wanting calls overturned so they can add .0001 to their career battting average.

[PatsFan09]

I'm sorry, but the idea that Joyce blew that on purpose, just to prevent the perfect game, is pure lunacy. MGO, I often agree with you, but there's no way in hell he did that on purpose. Ask Galarraga if he thinks that Joyce was insincere in his apology.

[Steve-o]

Yeah, it wasn't anything sinister. Just a monumental screw up.

Joyce was teary-eyed talking about it today. He is nutting up and he's behind the plate today. Should be fun for him.
Posted via Mobile Device

[mgoblue101415]

I'm sorry, but the idea that Joyce blew that on purpose, just to prevent the perfect game, is pure lunacy. MGO, I often agree with you, but there's no way in hell he did that on purpose. Ask Galarraga if he thinks that Joyce was insincere in his apology.


Okay, first... As someone else in the thread brought up... It is the last out of a possible perfect game. You'd think any ump out there would call even a fricken close call an out in that situation. I mean, to put an end to a perfect game on what could be the final out, you better be fricken damn sure on that call. Hell, even Donald said he wasn't sure if he was safe or not (yeah, you only saw the ball get there before you did) but he also said he thought he would be called out for sure. Even the fricken base runner assumed he'd be out.

Second... It wasn't a fricken close call. If Joyce missed that call, and it was an accident, then he should retire right fricken now. That was NOT a close call.

[midgar8784]

Okay, first... As someone else in the thread brought up... It is the last out of a possible perfect game. You'd think any ump out there would call even a fricken close call an out in that situation. I mean, to put an end to a perfect game on what could be the final out, you better be fricken damn sure on that call. Hell, even Donald said he wasn't sure if he was safe or not (yeah, you only saw the ball get there before you did) but he also said he thought he would be called out for sure. Even the fricken base runner assumed he'd be out.

Second... It wasn't a fricken close call. If Joyce missed that call, and it was an accident, then he should retire right fricken now. That was NOT a close call.



Yeah but whats the motivation? To have the entire baseball work call you a joke? Not sure any ump would take that on.

[Steve-o]

Galarraga did get a brand new Corvette convertible today, so that's something, I guess.
Posted via Mobile Device

[3 Point Stan]

I am talking about the standard of changing a play for a perfect game that means nothing more than self satisfaction. Is that what you want the standard to be? Because if so, there will be 50 guys lined up outside his office the next day wanting calls overturned so they can add .0001 to their career battting average.

Which is why there's no way the call gets overturned unless Selig has the blessing from his owners. With their blessing, it alleviates the possibility of that happening.

As for the standard, I defer to taltos' perfectly shared sentiment:
Making things right if possible should be a standard that is adhered to.

[3 Point Stan]

Galarraga did get a brand new Corvette convertible today, so that's something, I guess.
Posted via Mobile Device

If he also gets a steak and a b*** job then I guess things are straightened out and we can stop bantering about this.

I mean, fair is fair.

[mikiemo83]

And bullshit he feels bad about that call. It wasn't even close. The ball got there at least 2 steps before Donald reached the bag. It was no where near being a close call. That was Joyce purposely putting an end to a perfect game. There is no way I don't believe that. Not when it was so fricken obvious Donald was out. Minimum 2 steps is NOT close.

If Selig has any balls (which is doubtful) he reverses that call and gives Galarraga his perfect game.almost makes the NBA look legit

[TBrownslady]

Just a question. Toucher n Rich were talking about this today. They said even if they called it an error they couldn't give him a perfect game? If it's an UMP error then why would that screw up the perfect game? And if it was 2 outs and that was CLEARLY the last out of the game why can't they call it a perfect game?

[PatsFan09]

Okay, first... As someone else in the thread brought up... It is the last out of a possible perfect game. You'd think any ump out there would call even a fricken close call an out in that situation. I mean, to put an end to a perfect game on what could be the final out, you better be fricken damn sure on that call. Hell, even Donald said he wasn't sure if he was safe or not (yeah, you only saw the ball get there before you did) but he also said he thought he would be called out for sure. Even the fricken base runner assumed he'd be out.

Second... It wasn't a fricken close call. If Joyce missed that call, and it was an accident, then he should retire right fricken now. That was NOT a close call.

It was within a step. I agree, he was DEFINITELY safe.

Read articles today about it. Curt Schilling thinks that Joyce is easily one of the best out there. Joyce has a sterling reputation. He's not a Joe West Watch-Me! type of guy.

But it was not done deliberately to break up a perfect game. Not even close. It was an honest mistake.

[PatsFan09]

Yeah but whats the motivation? To have the entire baseball work call you a joke? Not sure any ump would take that on.

Amen, Midgar. That's what people seem to be missing. Joyce now unfortunately has this pinned to him for eternity. Who the hell would want this attached to their name for the rest of baseball history? He certainly doesn't.

I mean, I'm pretty sure that Jaric is into S&M, but I can't believe that Joyce is.
:coffee:

[PatsFan09]

From CNN:
[Updated at 1:06 p.m.] Less than 12 hours after losing a perfect game because of a blown call, Detroit pitcher Armando Galarraga took to the field once again in what turned out to be a day of celebration.

Galarraga was presented with a new red Corvette from Chevrolet and received cheers and applause from the fans and his teammates. Then in a very emotional moment, Galarraga presented the Tigers line-up card to the umpire who cost him his perfect game – Jim Joyce.

Joyce stepped onto the field amid a smattering of boos, but some applause as well. His face was red and was obviously holding back tears as he approached home plate with the rest of the umpiring crew.

Galarraga gave him the line-up card, shook hands with Joyce and then the opposing manager of the Cleveland Indians. Joyce appeared to wipe away tears as Galarraga returned to the dugout.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/03/perfect-mistake-reignites-mlb-replay-debate/?hpt=T2

[PatsFan09]

A bit lame how Granholm is grandstanding by signing a declaration that Galarraga did, in fact, through a perfect game.

No, Granholm, unfortunately, he technically did not. He should have, but he did not.

[midgar8784]

From CNN:
[Updated at 1:06 p.m.] Less than 12 hours after losing a perfect game because of a blown call, Detroit pitcher Armando Galarraga took to the field once again in what turned out to be a day of celebration.

Galarraga was presented with a new red Corvette from Chevrolet and received cheers and applause from the fans and his teammates. Then in a very emotional moment, Galarraga presented the Tigers line-up card to the umpire who cost him his perfect game – Jim Joyce.

Joyce stepped onto the field amid a smattering of boos, but some applause as well. His face was red and was obviously holding back tears as he approached home plate with the rest of the umpiring crew.

Galarraga gave him the line-up card, shook hands with Joyce and then the opposing manager of the Cleveland Indians. Joyce appeared to wipe away tears as Galarraga returned to the dugout.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/03/perfect-mistake-reignites-mlb-replay-debate/?hpt=T2




Oh hell, he had to come back and be home plate umpire today. That has to suck.

[Steve-o]

Oh hell, he had to come back and be home plate umpire today. That has to suck.

He didn't have to. MLB offered the day off. He declined. Good on him. Get out there and take your lumps.
Posted via Mobile Device

[sonsofkraftybob]

From CNN:
[Updated at 1:06 p.m.] Less than 12 hours after losing a perfect game because of a blown call, Detroit pitcher Armando Galarraga took to the field once again in what turned out to be a day of celebration.

Galarraga was presented with a new red Corvette from Chevrolet and received cheers and applause from the fans and his teammates. Then in a very emotional moment, Galarraga presented the Tigers line-up card to the umpire who cost him his perfect game – Jim Joyce.

Joyce stepped onto the field amid a smattering of boos, but some applause as well. His face was red and was obviously holding back tears as he approached home plate with the rest of the umpiring crew.

Galarraga gave him the line-up card, shook hands with Joyce and then the opposing manager of the Cleveland Indians. Joyce appeared to wipe away tears as Galarraga returned to the dugout.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/06/03/perfect-mistake-reignites-mlb-replay-debate/?hpt=T2Gallaraga and Joyce both have been really classy through this whole thing. I am truly impressed with each of them. They both deserve the Lady Bing Trophy.

[tommysgirl]

Gallaraga and Joyce both have been really classy through this whole thing. I am truly impressed with each of them. They both deserve the Lady Bing Trophy.
They really, really have. Way too rare these days too see such character.

[3 Point Stan]

Just a question. Toucher n Rich were talking about this today. They said even if they called it an error they couldn't give him a perfect game? If it's an UMP error then why would that screw up the perfect game? And if it was 2 outs and that was CLEARLY the last out of the game why can't they call it a perfect game?

Well, you can't give an umpire an error. They could have given Galarraga an error for a bobble but it really wasn't an error. And the official score keeper has already said he will not be changing the scoring from a hit to an error.

If the score keeper DID change it, he would then be credited with a no-hitter (not a perfect game as the baserunner wipes that out). Has to be 27 up, 27 down. It was 28 up, 27 down in this instance.

[WisColtFan7]

Selig announced today he isn't going to review the call Friggin gutless coward! When the umpire in question even admits he blew the call, its imperative to the integrity of the game to at LEAST take a look. Selig----killed baseball by slow asphyxiation. An owner as commissioner.....what a friggin joke!
Posted via Mobile Device

[PatsFan09]

:shrug: You can't reverse a call like that, unfortunately, after the fact.

Baseball has human error in it. Just like the NFL does (just notice how often the Colts aren't called for holding... even though they do it all the time. No one else does :fire: )

[3 Point Stan]

I guarantee a prominent owner took issue to the idea of overturning the call and that is why Selig is taking this stance. I don't have a problem with this in the end. It was discussed and they made the call that they believe is in the best interest of MLB.

I was kind of hoping for an overturn but I don't run that business. I assume there would have been some of the fallout that's been speculated and as a result, those cans of worms are to remain sealed.

Honestly though, I don't want to see enhanced replay. By the time a 3-game Sox/Yankees series is over, I've hardly gotten any sleep. The game is too long as it is.

[mgoblue101415]

:shrug: You can't reverse a call like that, unfortunately, after the fact.

Baseball has human error in it. Just like the NFL does (just notice how often the Colts aren't called for holding... even though they do it all the time. No one else does :fire: )



Yes, Selig can reverse that call. He has the power to do so. And if he had any balls at all and gave a shit about MLB at all he would have. If it hadn't been the last out then it would be pointless to reverse the call because who knows what would have happened, even if the guy did go the rest of the game without another hit or walk. You just wouldn't be able to say "without that bad call". But it was the last out of the game. Reverse that call and it's a perfect game.

But Selig has more than proven that he's a piece of shit and worthless as a commissioner.

[PatsFan09]

Yes, Selig can reverse that call. He has the power to do so. And if he had any balls at all and gave a shit about MLB at all he would have. If it hadn't been the last out then it would be pointless to reverse the call because who knows what would have happened, even if the guy did go the rest of the game without another hit or walk. You just wouldn't be able to say "without that bad call". But it was the last out of the game. Reverse that call and it's a perfect game.

But Selig has more than proven that he's a piece of shit and worthless as a commissioner.

I'm sorry, but I think that you're wrong.

It's completely inappropriate to set that precedent.

As I've mentioned, there have been MUCH worse, and MUCH more important, blown calls throughout baseball history. And know what? Virtually none of them have been overturned.

Baseball has human error. Always has.

I'm willing to bet that if you weren't from MI, you wouldn't feel that way.

My mother, who's from Saginaw, wants him to get the complete game. My father (who actually was drafted to play MLB as a pitcher) disagrees completely, and agrees with me.

[Steve-o]

Ah well. If Galarraga can pitch half as well as he did last night for the rest of the season, I'll be happy.
Posted via Mobile Device

[Mark_Henderson]

I have no idea how Joyce missed that call. It wasn't even close like when Don Deckinger screwed the Cards in the 1985 WS.

As for instant replay, no chance. The human element is & always will be part of baseball.


I say fvck that. It's like saying in 1905 that horses always were a part of transportation. The game is about the human element of the competition. It shouldn't matter if there's a human element in making the calls, what matters is that they're as accurate as possible.

Baseball's a slow enough game that someone upstairs could review close calls without impacting the game. You could easily allow each manager a couple challenge flags and not have them apply to balls and strikes.

[Number Cruncher]

Gary Betteman would have overturned that call....


Just sayin....

[midgar8784]

Yes, Selig can reverse that call. He has the power to do so. And if he had any balls at all and gave a shit about MLB at all he would have. If it hadn't been the last out then it would be pointless to reverse the call because who knows what would have happened, even if the guy did go the rest of the game without another hit or walk. You just wouldn't be able to say "without that bad call". But it was the last out of the game. Reverse that call and it's a perfect game.

But Selig has more than proven that he's a piece of shit and worthless as a commissioner.

You cannot open that can of worms, for from now, in every bang bang play, they are running to the commishes offices to change a call. You cannot overturn every bad call in sports, you can make changes to lessen those calls from happening.

[The Gr8est]

Has any other call in MLB ever been overturned after the game was over? If not, then I say it sets a bad precedent, regardless of the fact that everyone knows the kid really piched a perfect game.
There should be a mechanism in place to allow the ump to see that he made a mistake and change the call, but once the next picth has been thrown you can't change it. Instant replay has been used to reverse calls, but the call is reversed before play continues.
We all know that NFL games have been lost due to bad calls, even calls that the NFL confirmed were incorrect, yet the outcome is never changed.

Sucks, but that's the way it is.

[mgoblue101415]

I'm sorry, but I think that you're wrong.

It's completely inappropriate to set that precedent.

As I've mentioned, there have been MUCH worse, and MUCH more important, blown calls throughout baseball history. And know what? Virtually none of them have been overturned.

Baseball has human error. Always has.

I'm willing to bet that if you weren't from MI, you wouldn't feel that way.

My mother, who's from Saginaw, wants him to get the complete game. My father (who actually was drafted to play MLB as a pitcher) disagrees completely, and agrees with me.



There have been over 50 no hitters reversed in MLB history.

It's not like reversals are never done. They're done more than you might think. Sure, you can't reverse calls that are in the middle of a game... Well, you could, but it's not going to change the outcome of the game. But in this particular case, being the last out of the game, it can easily be changed. The precedence this would set... If the call in question is the last out of the game and doesn't effect who wins or loses. I'm sure there are a ton of those that will pop up in the future.

[The Gr8est]

There have been over 50 no hitters reversed in MLB history.

It's not like reversals are never done. They're done more than you might think. Sure, you can't reverse calls that are in the middle of a game... Well, you could, but it's not going to change the outcome of the game. But in this particular case, being the last out of the game, it can easily be changed. The precedence this would set... If the call in question is the last out of the game and doesn't effect who wins or loses. I'm sure there are a ton of those that will pop up in the future.

What would you say if Cleveland rallied to win with two outs in the 9th? Now you're not reversing a perfect game, you are reversing the result.

[Fully Tilted]

There have been over 50 no hitters reversed in MLB history.

It's not like reversals are never done. They're done more than you might think. Sure, you can't reverse calls that are in the middle of a game... Well, you could, but it's not going to change the outcome of the game. But in this particular case, being the last out of the game, it can easily be changed. The precedence this would set... If the call in question is the last out of the game and doesn't effect who wins or loses. I'm sure there are a ton of those that will pop up in the future.

Just as random as say three SPs throwing perfect games in the same season? Check that, make it two.

It's easily within the realm of possibility.

The only pure justification that Galaragga (sp) deserves is the correct call being made. Everything else and it's a perfect game with an asterisk or, unfortunately for him, not a perfect game.

And Cabrera is not catching enough heat for botching that play...for the record.

[mgoblue101415]

What would you say if Cleveland rallied to win with two outs in the 9th? Now you're not reversing a perfect game, you are reversing the result.



And how many times is that possibly going to happen???? Seriously. How many times has it happened in the past??? If it happens one or two times in the next couple hundred years I think MLB will survive.


Perfect game going into the 27 batter. The 27th batter hits the ball, runs to first, and is called safe even though it's obvious to everyone but the obviously distracted umpire that the runner is out.

The odds of THAT ever happening again are so fricken slim that reversing the Joyce call would not be a precedent... It would be a once in a couple of lifetimes event.

And the precedent angle is completely pointless anyway considering that by the next time this should ever happen, MLB will have instant replay.

[Michigan Dave]

And how many times is that possibly going to happen???? Seriously. How many times has it happened in the past??? If it happens one or two times in the next couple hundred years I think MLB will survive.


Perfect game going into the 27 batter. The 27th batter hits the ball, runs to first, and is called safe even though it's obvious to everyone but the obviously distracted umpire that the runner is out.

The odds of THAT ever happening again are so fricken slim that reversing the Joyce call would not be a precedent... It would be a once in a couple of lifetimes event.

And the precedent angle is completely pointless anyway considering that by the next time this should ever happen, MLB will have instant replay.

It would be an abortion of a call to reverse it. How do you justify doing that and not going back and looking at guys who may have had a bad call in the 5th or 6th inning prevent them from a no-hitter or perfect game? Let alone the fact that it would pretty much require retroactively rewarding the 1985 World Series to the Cardinals.

In theory it works, but making an exception to preserve an individual accomplishment when such accomplishments in the past have never received like consideration is bad practice. Bad calls are part of the game. The NFL said the refs ****ed up the PI call in the 06 AFCCG. I don't see us retroactively chillin' in a Miami rainstorm blowing up Grossman's world.

It sucks for this kid, but those are the breaks.

[mgoblue101415]

It would be an abortion of a call to reverse it. How do you justify doing that and not going back and looking at guys who may have had a bad call in the 5th or 6th inning prevent them from a no-hitter or perfect game? Let alone the fact that it would pretty much require retroactively rewarding the 1985 World Series to the Cardinals.

In theory it works, but making an exception to preserve an individual accomplishment when such accomplishments in the past have never received like consideration is bad practice. Bad calls are part of the game. The NFL said the refs ****ed up the PI call in the 06 AFCCG. I don't see us retroactively chillin' in a Miami rainstorm blowing up Grossman's world.

It sucks for this kid, but those are the breaks.



I justify it by saying IT WAS THE LAST OUT OF THE GAME. People can bring up all kinds of different possible, and past, scenarios, but unless it was the absolute last play of a game then it's apples and oranges. I mean, sure, you can go back to that PI call in 06 and say without it... What? The Colts wouldn't have gotten the ball on the 1 yd line, but whose to say they wouldn't have moved the ball down field anyway and gotten that TD? Or a TD later. The entire game would have changed, just like it would if something happens in the 5th or 6th inning of a game. On top of it, those are possible game winning changes. Like the Giants/Niners playoff game from a few years back when the game ended on offsetting penalties, which it can't. Giants should have had another chance, instead the Niners get the win. TOTALLY different then the Galarraga situation. Last out. Reversing the call to the proper call doesn't change the outcome of the game in regards to win/loss. Donald would have a hit taken away from him, but I don't think that's going to be a career changer for him.


So, if the situation ever arises again, before instant replay is put in, that a pitcher or batter or base runner or outfielder has a blown call on the last out of the game that doesn't effect who wins the game, then hell... I guess that play will have to be reversed. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Can anyone even tell me when the last time this situation happened? Has it ever? So all this talk about things that happened in the past, or might happen in the future and precedents... Apples and oranges.

[mikiemo83]

Has any other call in MLB ever been overturned after the game was over? If not, then I say it sets a bad precedent, regardless of the fact that everyone knows the kid really piched a perfect game.only hit to errors or errors to hits happen with any consistency during the season, not as much now that Wade Boggs retired but still


looking back Selig made teh right call, what if this was the 1st out and then he retired the next 27 - would anyone be as adamant about changing it?

[Fully Tilted]

I justify it by saying IT WAS THE LAST OUT OF THE GAME. People can bring up all kinds of different possible, and past, scenarios, but unless it was the absolute last play of a game then it's apples and oranges. I mean, sure, you can go back to that PI call in 06 and say without it... What? The Colts wouldn't have gotten the ball on the 1 yd line, but whose to say they wouldn't have moved the ball down field anyway and gotten that TD? Or a TD later. The entire game would have changed, just like it would if something happens in the 5th or 6th inning of a game. On top of it, those are possible game winning changes. Like the Giants/Niners playoff game from a few years back when the game ended on offsetting penalties, which it can't. Giants should have had another chance, instead the Niners get the win. TOTALLY different then the Galarraga situation. Last out. Reversing the call to the proper call doesn't change the outcome of the game in regards to win/loss. Donald would have a hit taken away from him, but I don't think that's going to be a career changer for him.


So, if the situation ever arises again, before instant replay is put in, that a pitcher or batter or base runner or outfielder has a blown call on the last out of the game that doesn't effect who wins the game, then hell... I guess that play will have to be reversed. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Can anyone even tell me when the last time this situation happened? Has it ever? So all this talk about things that happened in the past, or might happen in the future and precedents... Apples and oranges.

All for what? For Galaragga to be the pitcher who threw a perfect game with an asterisk next to it? The guy whose pitching performance had to be reviewed and noted as a perfect game after the fact?

Because everyone wants that.

The point is, Galaragga knows what he did. Both teams, their fanbases, the media etc. know what happened. The hit itself was nearly as pathetic as you can get. It's not as if this was a line drive to center caught but ruled a trap.

Kudos to Galaragga for handling this like a veteran even though he has just north of 50 starts under his belt at the big league level. I know I wouldn't want a hindsight perfect game. I'd already know how dominant I was in helping my team win a game.

[jaychamp]

I justify it by saying IT WAS THE LAST OUT OF THE GAME. People can bring up all kinds of different possible, and past, scenarios, but unless it was the absolute last play of a game then it's apples and oranges. I mean, sure, you can go back to that PI call in 06 and say without it... What? The Colts wouldn't have gotten the ball on the 1 yd line, but whose to say they wouldn't have moved the ball down field anyway and gotten that TD? Or a TD later. The entire game would have changed, just like it would if something happens in the 5th or 6th inning of a game. On top of it, those are possible game winning changes. Like the Giants/Niners playoff game from a few years back when the game ended on offsetting penalties, which it can't. Giants should have had another chance, instead the Niners get the win. TOTALLY different then the Galarraga situation. Last out. Reversing the call to the proper call doesn't change the outcome of the game in regards to win/loss. Donald would have a hit taken away from him, but I don't think that's going to be a career changer for him.


So, if the situation ever arises again, before instant replay is put in, that a pitcher or batter or base runner or outfielder has a blown call on the last out of the game that doesn't effect who wins the game, then hell... I guess that play will have to be reversed. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Can anyone even tell me when the last time this situation happened? Has it ever? So all this talk about things that happened in the past, or might happen in the future and precedents... Apples and oranges.
You're right it is different, but teams that have lost because of a bad call certainly deserve the reversal of that call more than reversing a call because of a stat. And I'm sure there's been plenty of last out calls in the history of baseball that was the difference between a win or loss.

It doesn't matter how unique the situation is, if you exercise your power to change a judgment call after a decided game that is the precedent you set. And you can guarantee it will come up if a team loses a playoff game because of a bad call. How do you argue changing a call for a stat but not for something as meaningful as a playoff game?

[Michigan Dave]

I justify it by saying IT WAS THE LAST OUT OF THE GAME. People can bring up all kinds of different possible, and past, scenarios, but unless it was the absolute last play of a game then it's apples and oranges. I mean, sure, you can go back to that PI call in 06 and say without it... What? The Colts wouldn't have gotten the ball on the 1 yd line, but whose to say they wouldn't have moved the ball down field anyway and gotten that TD? Or a TD later. The entire game would have changed, just like it would if something happens in the 5th or 6th inning of a game. On top of it, those are possible game winning changes. Like the Giants/Niners playoff game from a few years back when the game ended on offsetting penalties, which it can't. Giants should have had another chance, instead the Niners get the win. TOTALLY different then the Galarraga situation. Last out. Reversing the call to the proper call doesn't change the outcome of the game in regards to win/loss. Donald would have a hit taken away from him, but I don't think that's going to be a career changer for him.


So, if the situation ever arises again, before instant replay is put in, that a pitcher or batter or base runner or outfielder has a blown call on the last out of the game that doesn't effect who wins the game, then hell... I guess that play will have to be reversed. Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. Can anyone even tell me when the last time this situation happened? Has it ever? So all this talk about things that happened in the past, or might happen in the future and precedents... Apples and oranges.

Who cares if it was the last out in the game? What about the guy in 1942 who may have pitched a no-hitter or perfect game but for a bad call in the 5th inning? Just because it was the last out it doesn't make it right.

[Number Cruncher]

They changed the Pine Tar game after the fact...

Just sayin...

[The Gr8est]

It wasn't the last out of the game. It should have been, but another batter came to the plate and made the last out. That same batter could have also been the beginning of a 2-out 4-run rally. That has happened many times.

It sucks but the horrible call has to stand.

[PatsFan09]

They changed the Pine Tar game after the fact...

Just sayin...

Agreed.. although I'd also mention that that play actually affected the outcome of the game.

[midgar8784]

Agreed.. although I'd also mention that that play actually affected the outcome of the game.

and it was a question of a rule that could be proven or disproven, not a call on a play. They talked about this already. If you change this now, you better put instant replay in the same day because every close play is going to be ran to the office to get overturned.

[Michigan Dave]

There have been over 50 no hitters reversed in MLB history.

It's not like reversals are never done. They're done more than you might think. Sure, you can't reverse calls that are in the middle of a game... Well, you could, but it's not going to change the outcome of the game. But in this particular case, being the last out of the game, it can easily be changed. The precedence this would set... If the call in question is the last out of the game and doesn't effect who wins or loses. I'm sure there are a ton of those that will pop up in the future.

The reversals were of classifications- i.e., Andy Hawkins, Melido Perez, etc. The actual calls (as far as I know) of umpires have not been reversed.

[jaychamp]

They changed the Pine Tar game after the fact...

Just sayin...
That's because it wasn't a judgment call. The umpire called him out even though there was no penalty set for the pine tar rule. Completely different situation. He made the wrong call on a rule, which can be protested, this can't be.

Edit: Sorry midgar missed your post stating the same thing already