Wake better as a reliever?

[Flagg the Wanderer]

I've always thought it made more sense to have Wake as a reliever than as a starter, but until recently he always had a personal catcher, which complicated the issue. Since that is no longer true, here's my argument.

You'd think that hitters would have a much harder time adjusting to the knuckleball if they've been seeing traditional fastball/curveball pitching during the game and the knuckleballer comes in mid-game. He occasionally approaches dominant when the knuckler is really dancing, and at worst he's a sick inning-eater that can rest the rest of the pen - incredibly valuable as the long season drags on.

Am I off on this? If so, why? I admit to not being a huge baseball guy, so educate me...

[DarrylStingley]

I think Wake is better as a reliever because I don't see him being able to go more than 5 or 6 innings very often while maitaining effectiveness.

[mikiemo83]

I will say Starter to take the other side
he is a creature of habit, like many baseball players, his starting days starts at 8 am and continues up until he takes the mound. -He is a 40+ year old man with back history so stretching and routine are good for him, the inconsistency with being a RP is too much to ask of someone who is no longer in his mid 30's and willing to start on 2 days rest.

add in the whole Catcher issue, the inability to always locate the ball so him coming in with a man on base in the middle of an inning is basically putting the runner on 3rd.

thing is Dice K is not a RP either, both take too long to get going, to get the feel and Buch is deserves the 4th spot

I know a couple years ago he would eat the same dinner at the same place every time he started - I knew the manager of the place at the time - not sure if he still was following that routine as the manager left

[Stranded Alien]

I'm in the NO camp..

Guy doesn't know where the balls going when realeased, why put pressure on an already overwelmed catching core.

If I want a guy that has no Idea where the balls going when realeased Matsuzaka could be the next papelbon

[Flagg the Wanderer]

I'm not necessarily talking about now (though I am specifically talking about now) nor even specifically about Wake (though I am talking about Wake here).

My basic point is the use of knuckleballers in general. They can pitch forever to save the pen, and as relievers it would be a huge adjustment for hitters, as opposed to seeing knuckleballers from the start. Also, if a starter gets shelled early, you can bring a k-baller in to turn the tide if the ball is dancing, or just save the strain on the pen by sucking up the innings in a blowout. To be able to do that every 2-3 games instead of every 5 would be a huge advantage, I would think.

Is that not correct?

As far as the problems catching knucklers, that applies to starting or relieving, so...:shrug:

[mikiemo83]

I'm not necessarily talking about now (though I am specifically talking about now) nor even specifically about Wake (though I am talking about Wake here).

My basic point is the use of knuckleballers in general. They can pitch forever to save the pen, and as relievers it would be a huge adjustment for hitters, as opposed to seeing knuckleballers from the start. Also, if a starter gets shelled early, you can bring a k-baller in to turn the tide if the ball is dancing, or just save the strain on the pen by sucking up the innings in a blowout. To be able to do that every 2-3 games instead of every 5 would be a huge advantage, I would think.

Is that not correct? save the pen, maybe but you can get a long relief guy to do the same thing

As far as the problems catching knucklers, that applies to starting or relieving, so...:shrug:yes but as a starter you can start your Knuckle ball catcher and bring someone else in after if you like


with wake as a RP what do you do, put Victor at 1st, Youk in LF (at home) and Varitek behind the plate only to move Victor back to catch, you back to 1st and put Hermedia in LF - not exact situation but the general idea

[Flagg the Wanderer]

save the pen, maybe but you can get a long relief guy to do the same thing

yes but as a starter you can start your Knuckle ball catcher and bring someone else in after if you like


with wake as a RP what do you do, put Victor at 1st, Youk in LF (at home) and Varitek behind the plate only to move Victor back to catch, you back to 1st and put Hermedia in LF - not exact situation but the general ideaWhy? Tek didn't catch Wake until recently, IIRC. Why do we need to have him catch for Wake?

The basis of my thread was no longer needing a personal catcher.

[mikiemo83]

Why? Tek didn't catch Wake until recently, IIRC. Why do we need to have him catch for Wake?

The basis of my thread was no longer needing a personal catcher. I used wake as an example, but typically a knuckle baller will have a personal catcher, so if he is a RP do you change out the Catcher? remove Tek for Victor?

or do you leave Tek in and let the passballs pile up

if as you say you eliminate the personal catcher, you better have a Greyhound back there to chase all the pass balls that will happen with someone not used to catching a knuckleballer


Sure Wake did alright in the past as a RP, but that was before Tek lost the ability to catch him, and I tihnk it was Hatteberg more than Jason who was catching him early in his career


so I guess eliminate personal catcher and create a whole new problem

[carlgarrett]

I'll talk out of both sides of my mouth.
FOR:
He has been a reliever in the past
The Sox have 8th and 9th inning relievers(Paps and Bard) so he wouldn't necessarily appear in a critical point
He can pitch multiple innings and save the bull pen when necessary.
He is the lesser of 2 evils (Dice would be worse as a reliever)

AGAINST:
He hasn't done any real relief pitching since 2002
The knuckleball can lead to passed balls. Not good in a relief appearance with RISP.
He's 43 years old with back problems. Will he be able to withstand the rigors of multiple appearances through out the season?
Does it create an in game catching dilemma? In his only relief appearance this year Victor was catching and remained in the game.

I think Wake as a reliever is a good short term solution with more risk than reward.