Andre Smith, OT, Alabama

[Flagg the Wanderer]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Character questions, out of shape, bizarre behavior, etc.

...but...

This kid is going to fall like a rock, now people are talking day 2 or even all the way out of the draft from potential #1 overall.

This is the pedigree:
HS: All-State, All-America, Bobby Dodd Award (top offensive player) 2005, Mr. Football Alabama 2005 (first OLman ever to win the award,) Walter Peyton Award (top HS player) finalist.

College:
Played in 13 games as a true freshman
Started all 16 games as a soph, 4 co-player of the week awards
All-American: Playboy, AP, PFW
Outland Award Winner (Top OLman in the country)

Part of the reason he dropped was because he skipped his workouts and bombed his interviews. But reportedly the big reason he bombed his interviews was because he told the teams that he started training late for the combine. In other words, he told them the truth: I took some time off and I'm not it top form.

At what point in the draft is the Andre Smith risk (that a kid who has had life presented to him on a platter thus far just made a bad choice - talking to an agent's rep - and then panicked into doing a bad job dealing with adversity?) a better risk than the risk that you can pluck some JAG from day 2 and make him a contributor on the best team in the league?

What if he's there at #34? #97? Round 5? Round 7? Chase him as an UDFA?

How motivated will this kid be if he falls into round 2, day 2, or out of the draft completely?

[Box_O_Rocks]

I'll be shocked if he drops out of the first round, and mildly surprised if he drops out of the Top 15. That said, if he's there at #23, I'm not interested.

[mikiemo83]

compensatory pick, if we get three use the 3rd one

[Hawg73]

This is actually a good point, Flagg and something I've wondered about.

Maybe the kid knows that he fvcked up and needs to get his schitt together if he ever wants to drive a Bentley.

He does not seem like a Patriot-type at all, but I would take him with the theoretical compensatory 3rd we should get for Assante and roll the dice and hope Dante and the vets can straighten him out.

I don't, however, think he will fall all that far. He should be gone by mid-2nd despite his own stupidity.

[Flagg the Wanderer]

I think come draft day someone will grab him before round 2 is over certainly. A team like Washington is probably drooling over the fact that his stock collapsed and will jump on him.

The thing is, once you're out of the top 10-15 the risk is low enough that you can take a shot at it and still cut him if you have to.

I'd give heavy consideration to taking him at #23, and would absolutely take him at #34. Dropping like that would either motivate the kid beyond measure or send him into a slump he never recovers from, but it's worth the risk IMO.

[Hawg73]

I think come draft day someone will grab him before round 2 is over certainly. A team like Washington is probably drooling over the fact that his stock collapsed and will jump on him.

The thing is, once you're out of the top 10-15 the risk is low enough that you can take a shot at it and still cut him if you have to.

I'd give heavy consideration to taking him at #23, and would absolutely take him at #34. Dropping like that would either motivate the kid beyond measure or send him into a slump he never recovers from, but it's worth the risk IMO.


We'll agree to disagree on that point. I don't think you roll the dice with your first few picks. You need dependable football players for the big money and high-risk of flameout types should never cost your franchise that kind of dough.

We didn't get to be a successful team that competes every year by projecting athletic wunderkinds to the pro-bowl like, say, Oakland. We for the most part take solid guys who are dependable with few exceptions (Meriweather, Chad Jackson).

[Dwight Schrute]

I'm not the biggest fan of Merriweather Hawg, but I think it's a little unfair to lump him with the likes of Chad Jackson.

[Flagg the Wanderer]

We didn't get to be a successful team that competes every year by projecting athletic wunderkinds to the pro-bowl like, say, Oakland. I don't disagree with this, but this isn't some Mamula combine wonder boy. This is an incredibly consistent performer and Outland Trophy winner that cut his own legs out from under him with a poor performance at the combine.

You could turn this around and argue that it is exactly the kind of value pick that New England looks for: "Football Players" who don't necessarily have the measurables that teams are slaves to.

That all said, I don't know what the underlying "character issues" are. If all of this is wash coming from talking with the representative of an agent, that's one thing. If this guy has been a consistent character problem in the past, that's entirely different.

[mikiemo83]

the one thing we do know is that BB is on the phone with Saban learning everything there is to know about this kid

he missed the Sugar Bowl but rumors were because of illegal contact with an agent, Saban called it the standard violation of team rules and policies. I trust BB knows the truth and knew it the day the punishment was announced

[ParanoidPatriot]

He may be a Pro Bowl player. But something telss me he once he get $ he will either eat his way out of the NFL or not be willing to pay the price.

The best thing that can happen to him is that he drops to the 3rd round and not get that big pay day. Then he willhave to put in the work to go along with his talent if he wants the big bucks as a FA.

[Hawg73]

I'm not the biggest fan of Merriweather Hawg, but I think it's a little unfair to lump him with the likes of Chad Jackson.

I don't mean that Meriweather is a bad kid, because he has been fine here and, I think, a pretty good player who is getting better.

I only made the analogy because of his troubles in school with the big fight he was involved in and the incident where he busted a couple of caps at somebody.

When I heard that stuff I never even considered him as a future Patriot, but the Pats did their due diligence and decided he was ok and that seems to be working out.

I more or less meant that the Pats will sometimes draft a guy that isn't necessarily a Boy Scout or a great scholar and use a high pick on that person.

[TomWaits & you]

Meriweather took undue heat, character-wise. He's a solid guy that was tarnished by association. While I loved him at Miami, I was surprised the Pats took him because he didn't seem to fit the mold as a finesse S. He was a tough guy at the U, but he isn't an NFL tough guy. either way, his rep is bullshit, really.

I agree with Box on Smith, though. He is SUCH as talent. Such a talent. He is the most talented man in the draft, and until recently, he knew that. The fact that he's realizing that benching 19 times or running whatever isn't going to cut it isn't hitting home. He's Leonard Davis. A blob that would've/could've/should've. He'll be a guy that you'd like on your team, but not at his price and not at his draft position.

either way, if he could be a 340# killer, he doesn't fit what the pats do. Mt. Cody, on the other hand? Non-Maualuga, imo.

[Alk]

I want nothing to do with this guy unless he drops to like the 3rd. or 4th. round which will never happen. I don't put much stock in the combine but the fact that he walked into probably the biggest day of his life completely ill prepared and then just walked out without finishing or even so much as telling anybody he was leaving tells me all I need to know about the kid. Then to top things off he has his pro day to somewhat redeem himself and completely blows it there too. If the only thing that motivates him is the money then he is a lost cause and will wash out of the NFL in three years.

[king of kings]

I will be shocked if he drops below the 18th pick. He has problems he basically did not care to preform at the combine or get in shape for the pro day. I would not take him any if he fell to the pats . Mainly do to his Poor work effort.

[mikiemo83]

is he the warren sapp of this draft - a fat overweight headcase who falls?

[Flagg the Wanderer]

That's the thing. He has no history of poor work ethic, nor of being out of shape. I've been wondering if he just hasn't faced serious adversity in his athletic career, and got thrown for a loop with this whole agent thing. Just handled it badly due to lack of experience and went into a funk, lost confidence.

A wake up call and good coaching could be a real turn around, and if he falls then a good deal of the risk involved with drafting him evaporates. At a certain point the risk/reward takes over, especially with the inside scoop coming from Saban.

I kinda like the Warren Sapp comparison, but Sapp had much more history as a headcase...but still, a nice pick. I look at him as the anti Mike Mamula. We KNOW he can play, that he has football smarts, etc., but he dis-impressed at the combine and interviews. Like the smart guys you know that don't test well, but can perform.

It's an intriguing thing. I'm intrigued.

[Harrison37]

No fat bastards please

[Flagg the Wanderer]

Look, either he can play better than any other lineman in football while he's out of shape, or he got out of shape at a time when it matters to his career more than a game. Playing WAAAAY above your measurables is not a bad thing...I thought the word for that was "gamer."

Hell, Vince Wilfork looks like a tubby MF with his shirt off, and he's an amazing athlete. 'Course, he had the measurables as well, but still. Film tells me this kid can play, and came to play every down. An OLman can't take plays off, can't ever play lazy, and be recognized the way he was. A DL can flash brilliance and disappear, but an OL has to have his head in the game every single down. Smith did.

If he waltzed into the NFL as the #1 overall pick or whatever, I could forsee a problem if this was all inside of him. If he drops and loses millions? Someone is going to have a highly motivated monster on their hands. Could he wash out? Sure. Will he? I think basic psychology argues against it.

[Alk]

IMO, people put way too much stock into what these guys do in college. I used Toniu Fonoti as an example on another board. He is easily one of the best offensive lineman to play at Nebraska and that's saying something. While he was at Nebraska he crushed the record for pancakes in a season in just his Sophomore year. Can anyone tell me where he is now? He showed poor work ethic once he got into the NFL and after bouncing around from team to team I believe his NFL career is finally over.

[Hawg73]

IMO, people put way too much stock into what these guys do in college. I used Toniu Fonoti as an example on another board. He is easily one of the best offensive lineman to play at Nebraska and that's saying something. While he was at Nebraska he crushed the record for pancakes in a season in just his Sophomore year. Can anyone tell me where he is now? He showed poor work ethic once he got into the NFL and after bouncing around from team to team I believe his NFL career is finally over.

My understanding is that he ate his way out of the NFL, which he entered at a listed weight around 360. Some believe he ended up over 4 bills and was among the heaviest players in league history, if not THE heaviest.

Here is a link to an outstanding article about him that is well worth the read:

http://espn.go.com/magazine/vol4no24fonoti.html

If I'm not mistaken he had a fine early career in SD after being drafted in '02and was really looking like a guy to watch, but he didn't last long. He last had brief stints with Miami, Atlanta and was a summer cut by Carolina in '08. The guy just got too fat to play, but his potential might have actually exceeded his girth at one time.


A teaser:

Welcome to a defensive tackle’s nightmare. Hunkering down into his three-point stance, DT Ryan Gillenwater flexes his fingertips into the spongy carpet, fully prepared to defend Baylor’s home turf against the rampaging visitors from Nebraska. Gillenwater slowly raises his head. Then his eyes bulge and his heart skips.

Day-yamn! Look at the size of this guy’s friggin’ face. Sitting on a huge torso on the other side of the line is a melon that looks like it’s about to burst through the thin red bars that bind it. Gillenwater blinks away the disbelief, regains his composure and glares at the ball, watching for the snap. But when it comes, Gillenwater, a mere waif at 263 pounds, is lost before he can even react. A huge flash of red crashes into his chest like a fire truck, sending him flying from the line. And as Gillenwater lies on the turf, his senses scrambled, a deep menacing belly laugh draws him back to reality. Welcome to the world of Toniu Fonoti.

To his opponents, Nebraska’s 6'4", 363-pound guard doesn’t even appear human. He’s more like a rhino with a goatee. His head is as big as a beer keg; his calves are Virginia Hams. And the rhino part? Milt Tenopir, the Huskers’ crusty OL coach, has seen his linemen collect six of Nebraska’s record eight Outland Trophies, and says Toniu (ta-NOO) is the school’s best ever. “His level of intensity is overpowering,” says Tenopir.

As a sophomore last season, Fonoti set the school record with 155 pancake blocks, inspiring awestruck teammates to nickname him God. It’s a mark he’s already passed this fall. And if his 20 pancakes against Baylor on Oct. 13 and his 32 against Texas Tech a week later aren’t enough to re-circuit your brain, consider this: The greatest lineman in Nebraska history and the most devastating force in college football is just 19 years old.