Some moves today.

[Undertaker #59]

The deal with Washington went through. The Pats traded this years 5th round acquired from Dallas to Washington for this year's 7th and a 4th next year. They also swapped positions in the third round this year.

The Pats also traded Greg Robinson Randall to Houston for their 5th round pick (#19).

They also signed TE Fred Baxter.

Originally posted by Undertaker #59
The deal with Washington went through. The Pats traded this years 5th round acquired from Dallas to Washington for this year's 7th and a 4th next year. They also swapped positions in the third round this year.

The Pats also traded Greg Robinson Randall to Houston for their 5th round pick (#19).

They also signed TE Fred Baxter.


This whole draft pick thing is really messed up. This isn't a criticism -- it is just an attempt to get to the bottom of what actually happened. :confused: The part about a pick from Dallas I have no information on -- could that be confusion regarding the trade with the Texans?

They got a fifth rounder from the Texans for Robinson-Randall. They had a fifth ("traded" from themselves in last year's draft) and then they have their own pick in 2003. Three total (of this much I am certain.)

I don't believe that the seventh round pick was actually part of the deal (although I agree -- I have seen it reported on at least one site -- ESPN I believe.) Patriots.com makes no mention of the seventh rounder ( they already had two picks in the seventh round and they still do. ) I could be wrong but I think this was a swap of third round picks and a trade of a fifth for a fourth.

Washington was maneuvering to work a deal for Chad Morton, a Restricted Free Agent, and needed a fifth round pick as part of the deal. However, Washington didn't have a fifth round pick so they traded with New England who had three. However, New England's pick wasn't low enough satisfy the league so the deal got kicked back. The deal was re-worked and they ended up getting New England's lowest of their 5th round picks.

Bottom line is that this is good news for the Pats. They get a fourth rounder from Washington next year in exchange for a fifth this year. They move up in the third round. They had eleven picks in the draft before the trade (10 now) and they did not have enough cap room to sign them all.

Better still is that the Jets could either lose Chad Morton (a very dangerous return specialist) or have to match the offer sheet and spend more money to retain him. Odds are the Jets will match the offer -- but the Pats make out either way.

Robinson-Randall is not a huge surprise. Fifth rounder is about right for him.

--

If anyone can shed light on this mess or has conflicting information to further muddle it please feel free to join in.

[Hawg73]

Thanks Undertaker. I didn't know about Randall or the 3rd swap this year.

NR - the Boston papers are all reporting the 7th rounder. I think the Pats are stockpiling 7th's to move up for a 6th .:banghead: I'm not sure how we got Dallas' 5th.

[pookie]

Originally posted by Hawg73
Thanks Undertaker. I didn't know about Randall or the 3rd swap this year.

NR - the Boston papers are all reporting the 7th rounder. I think the Pats are stockpiling 7th's to move up for a 6th .:banghead: I'm not sure how we got Dallas' 5th.

This seems to tell us that the Pats will almost certainly be going after some experience on the offensive line. As silly as Randall looked out there from time to time, he did have some experience and that hole needs to be filled.

[bideau]

Originally posted by pookie
This seems to tell us that the Pats will almost certainly be going after some experience on the offensive line. As silly as Randall looked out there from time to time, he did have some experience and that hole needs to be filled.

Irony alert!!! When the trade was announced, Orlando Brown was in Gillette Stadium being interviewed.

The Pats now have 11 picks in this year's draft. Two each in the 1st, 4th, 5th and 7th rounds. One each in the 2nd, 3rd and 6th. Also, the Pats moved up 6 spots, from 17th to 11th, in the 3rd because of the swap with the 'Skins.

It'll be interesting to see if the Pats use all these extra picks to do some manuevering in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised to see them make trades as the draft progresses if they feel they need to move up to get a player(s) that they've targeted, especially in the middle rounds.

[Undertaker #59]

Originally posted by NoRespect
This whole draft pick thing is really messed up. This isn't a criticism -- it is just an attempt to get to the bottom of what actually happened. :confused: The part about a pick from Dallas I have no information on -- could that be confusion regarding the trade with the Texans?



From Official Patriots web site (http://www.patriots.com/news/fullarticle.sps?id=23432&type=general) :

New England sent the first of its two fifth-round selections in this year's draft, a pick previously acquired from the Cowboys , to the Redskins in exchange for Washington's fourth-round selection in next year's draft.

The trade of draft picks with Washington did not involve a 7th round pick after all. The 7th round pick was part of an earlier deal rejected by the league. When Washington came back to renegotiate the deal, the Pats forced them to sweeten the deal in exchange for the higher 5th round pick that the Skins needed.

The second 7th round pick that the Pats have in 2003 is not related to the Washington trade. It comes from St. Louis for the trade of Grant Williams in August of 2002. The Pats already had 11 picks in the draft this year before the trade with the Redskins. After the trade with Washington, they had 10 picks. They subsequently traded Robinson-Randall to the Texans and recovered the fifth round pick traded to Washington leaving them with 11 picks once again. (They gained earlier position in the third round and a fourth round pick in '04 from the Washington trade.)

From the globe:

"Pioli and Belichick said they had agreed to trade their own pick, and that no one ever discussed unloading the higher selection. In the end, Washington agreed to swap places with the Patriots in the third round, allowing the Patriots to move up six places, plus hand over its fourth-round selection next year in exchange for that fifth-round pick that came from Dallas. The seventh-round choice was long forgotten."

See entire article. (http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/068/sports/Using_the_tricks_of_the_trade+.shtml)


(In addition to the 4th rounder next year from Washington the Pats should also have a 7th round pick from the Rams for Kole Ayi who was also traded in August.)

[pookie]

Somebody answer me this...

All NFL teams had to "purge" themselves two weeks ago to meet the ~$75 million salary cap, right? Now that that's done, can teams again exceed the salary cap until XYZ date in which they have to comply with the salary cap?

I guess I'm really just wondering how the Pats could possibly make a run at the likes of FA Rosevelt Colvin, Orlando Brown or any other high dollar players. The signing of Poole last week had to put the Pats at or near their cap number. So do the cap rules allow a team to again exceed that cap and trim the fat at a later time?

Originally posted by pookie
Somebody answer me this...

All NFL teams had to "purge" themselves two weeks ago to meet the ~$75 million salary cap, right? Now that that's done, can teams again exceed the salary cap until XYZ date in which they have to comply with the salary cap?

I guess I'm really just wondering how the Pats could possibly make a run at the likes of FA Rosevelt Colvin, Orlando Brown or any other high dollar players. The signing of Poole last week had to put the Pats at or near their cap number. So do the cap rules allow a team to again exceed that cap and trim the fat at a later time?

Pookie:

I don’t claim anything other than to try to understand it.

My understanding is that they can never exceed it but that they define compliance differently in free agency and the pre-season. This is from CBS Sportsline [updated for current year]:

“The salary cap is the absolute maximum each club may spend on player salaries in a capped year. For [2003], that amounts to [64.25] percent of leaguewide "Defined Gross Revenues" (divided by [32] teams), made up of preseason, regular-season and postseason gate receipts and radio and television rights. The cap is in effect 365 days a year. [From the start of Free Agency] …to the day before the season begins, a club's top 51 salaried players count towards the cap, plus pro-rated signing bonuses, incentives, etc., but not base salaries of other players on the roster up to 80. Thereafter, all salaries on a club's roster count towards the cap.”

The important part is that only the highest 51 base salaries count from free agency until the start of the season. At the start of the season, all salaries will count towards the cap.

Let's say the Pats go out and sign Colvin to a salary worth $5M a year. That would place him in the “highest 51” category, and his salary would have to fit under the cap. However, someone on the lower end of the salary chain no longer must comply.... Their salary is no longer one of the "highest-51" salaries hence they can juggle players a little bit. However, this only buys them the salary of the lowest player if they are close to the cap.

The Pats used most of the space they acquired by restructuring to re-sign their existing free agents. I read recently that they are roughly $2M under the cap with 59 players signed which means that they probably have roughly 2.5M worth of room to play with without making a roster change or restructuring.