The Bush administration has backed ALL Americans into a corner. [Archive] - Patriots Planet - New England Patriots Forums and Message Boards

NEM

02-14-2003, 06:41 PM

This administration, headed by King George of Buffoonville, has become the most irresponsible in American history.

Because of a personal vendetta, he has backed ALL Americans into a NO-WIN corner, one which we may NEVER recover from.

It was reported today , in the media (and don't ask me where, I just heard it on the radio) that when King George took office, one of the VERY FIRST items on his agenda (long before 9/11) was to "settle the iraq problem." (Sounds like something Adolph Hitler said a long time ago.)

Anyway, her is why he has backed us into a no-win corner.

In the current situation, there are only TWO options remaining.

1: We pre-emptively attack Iraq, WITHOUT UN sanction or approval, and with the aid of just a small handful of countries, and virtually none fromthe Arab world.

If we do that, it will be the FIRST time in U. S. History that this country has EVER attacked any nation in the world, without provocation.

By doing that, we will be alienating MOST of the other countries in the world, their citizens, and their leaders.

Not that it means much to me, but to exist in this world, which is getting smaller every day, it is necessary to have strong friends and allies all over the globe.

King George, and his buffonery, are,, slowly, eroding all of that friendship.

2: If we do NOT attack Iraq, and begin pulling our troops back, and eventually out of harms way, we will come across as a "Paper Tiger," one with all bark, and no bite.

We will look, to the rest of the world like a timid little country that is afraid to follow through on our threats and will be looked down on by most other nations, who will thenuse it to their advantage, knowing that we talk loudly but carry a short stick.

Therefore, we have been backed into a NO-WIN corner by this irresponsible buffoon who stole the presidency with illegal and unethical tactics.

And, most of this to settle a personal vendetta.

Yes, Saddam Hussein is a dictator, a ruthless dictator, and a mad man.

But, nothing has been proven that he has any responsibility, in any way, for the 9/11 attack.

King George said, after the attack in NY, that we will hunt down terrorists, no matter where they may be, no matter where they may hide.

Why has he deverted all his attention to the demolition of Iraq instead of following through with his pledge?

He can't follow through because he hasn't got the intelligence to figure out how to do it.

He has put his foot in his mouth and now, now he HAS BACKED ALL AMERICANS INTO A CORNER from which we may never get out of.

And all Bill Clinton ever did was have sex in the White House.

What a joke. But, what did you expect when you put an ignorant, vindictive buffoon in a position that was way above his head?

freak

02-14-2003, 10:08 PM

Don't you have another "Charlie Weiss is a cancer" rant to get ready for the start of mini camps?

:Wildcats: Go 'Cats, beat Maine.

NEM

02-14-2003, 10:10 PM

Your response only proves that you cant deny one word i wrote. Kind of like backing yourself into a corner, isnt it?

And, don't worry, the time will come, if and when, I need to get on weis's ass for his ineptness, again.

freak

02-14-2003, 10:13 PM

Yeah, you got me all figured out, NEM.

:rolleyes:

I know you really aren't mad at GW, because somehow, some way, Zampese is behind all of this, isn't he?

At least NEM provides a comic presence here. :D

freak

02-14-2003, 10:16 PM

BTW,

I didn't even bother to read the substance of your post. The reason is because it is too predictable, just like your rants about whoever happens to be the Pats' offensive coordinator. You're the same guy berating Weiss for the same things you hated about Zampese, and the two couldn't be more different. When presented with actual facts that dispute your ENTIRELY UNSUBSTANTIATED arguments, you fall back on the "ifs" and "maybes" of hypothetical situations that could skew the facts. When those hypotheticals are proven wrong, you simply don't respond. You run away like Forrest Gump, but without his honesty and innocence.

NEM

02-14-2003, 11:01 PM

Actually, if you had any intelligence, and comprehension, you would have been able to see that my dislike for Zampese, which was substantiated whenthe Patriots FIRED HIM, was because he was using his OLD offensive scheme, the one that had proven successful in the past but one that the rest of the NFL had caught up to.

And, his failure to adopt new systems and change from the old is what cause him to be fired, just as I said it would be.

Weis, on the other hand, has a problem of not utilizing the players to the best of their abilities and has an awful time at calling the right plays, at the right time...and insists on continuing to pound away with the same schemes and same order of play calling, even though it rarely works.

Fortunately, for him, his defense and special teams bailed out his ass in 2001, not so in 2002, and therefore his weakness and ineptness was exposed.

He was considered head coach material because he was part of a Super Bowl winner.

Now that he has been exposed as a fake, not one team called him in for a head coaching interview this season.

And you know why, because the rest of the NFL has now seen him exposed for the inept faker that he is.

And, those are facts that can not be denied.

But, this isn't a Weis thread, although YOU continue to attempt to turn it in to one, and I won't allow that to happen, so this will be my only comments on Charlie Weis until the season begins.

Hopefully my comments will be positive, if he sees the light, and LORD knows, I will be there to guide him and assist him in any way... and he certainly needs all the help he can get.

Now, regarding how King George has backed ALL of us Americans into a corner and put us in jeopardy like never before...well, no need for me to go on, you would never believe it anyway.

Austin

02-14-2003, 11:53 PM

Well... I am no fan of GW... but he isn't forcing you to live in the US... a nation that has majority support for this "war." The problem with your argument is that you assume that he is doing something that the American people don't want. Another problem is that you assume that only a "handful" of nations will support us. In fact, the only "allies" that will NOT support us are France and Germany... the rest (i.e. Spain, Britain, Australia, almost ALL of Eastern Europe, etc...) seem to be falling in line nicely.

By doing that, we will be alienating MOST of the other countries in the world, their citizens, and their leaders.

Where is your backup on this statement? The way I see it, this will not CHANGE anyone's opinions of us. The French will still hate us, the Chinese will continue to give us fits... Britian will still back us...

--Kyle

NEM

02-15-2003, 08:31 AM

The only European couotnries that support us ar all inconsequential , minor, European nations, with virtually NO military presence. The REAL Europe is controlled by France and Germany, and we have no support from Russia and China, too.

Why do you think the LITTLE coutries signed on? Because they all want something from us.

And the MAJORITY of this country does NOT support the action WITHOUT UN authority, try to get your facts straight.

Bush has us backed in to a corner and anti US rallies are popping up all across the planet...use your head and open your eyes to what this man has doewn to us and how he has gotten us into a no-win situation, no matter whch way we act.

And, I take offense to your comment about }not being forced to live in the US". Since when doesnt anyone inthis country ahve a right to say what is on their mind. Your comment is very offensive.

Perhaps you prefer to be a dictator, like Bush, in the form of communism. Or, perhaps you are a little Hussein, where he does not let the people speak their mind?

You comment would be offensive to ANY American.

We are losing this struggle because King George is a buffoon and has handled it completely wrong...Now we are backed into a corner. Open your eyes and see what is happening.

pookie

02-15-2003, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by NEM
The only European couotnries that support us ar all inconsequential , minor, European nations, with virtually NO military presence. The REAL Europe is controlled by France and Germany, and we have no support from Russia and China, too.

Why do you think the LITTLE coutries signed on? Because they all want something from us.

And the MAJORITY of this country does NOT support the action WITHOUT UN authority, try to get your facts straight.

Bush has us backed in to a corner and anti US rallies are popping up all across the planet...use your head and open your eyes to what this man has doewn to us and how he has gotten us into a no-win situation, no matter whch way we act.

And, I take offense to your comment about }not being forced to live in the US". Since when doesnt anyone inthis country ahve a right to say what is on their mind. Your comment is very offensive.

Perhaps you prefer to be a dictator, like Bush, in the form of communism. Or, perhaps you are a little Hussein, where he does not let the people speak their mind?

You comment would be offensive to ANY American.

We are losing this struggle because King George is a buffoon and has handled it completely wrong...Now we are backed into a corner. Open your eyes and see what is happening.

Couple of things NEM.

1) You have every right to say what's on your mind (as you put it), but why don't you stop wasting our time with your garbage and go sign up on http://www.NEMHatesGeorgeandCharlie.com? Now you are creating new threads all related to the same thing...your hate for George Bush. I think we all get it. Why don't you post a band name, a picture of a semi-naked woman, something ironically funny, or God forbid, something about the Pats.

2) You commented to freak that you found his comments offensive. Personally, I find you offensive and wish you would take all of your **** to the politics thread...it's there for a reason.

3) It would be an understatement to say that you use the word buffoon too much......it's quite comical.

To summize..... and this coming from a regular Joe..... you're ruining this board. I'm not sure if that's your intention, but members come here to shoot the breeze with other Pats fans and generally have fun. NEM, why are you trying to turn this into a platform for your whacked out political agenda? Freak's comments are not offensive to "ANY" American as you put it.........Your's are NEM, your's are.

Austin

02-15-2003, 04:08 PM

Originally posted by NEM
The only European countries that support us ar all inconsequential , minor, European nations, with virtually NO military presence. The REAL Europe is controlled by France and Germany, and we have no support from Russia and China, too.

ahh.. "little" countries like Spain and Great Britain...
You may want to do some research on the "new Europe." France and Germany are the countries that are desperately trying to hold onto their power base, while these "inconsequential" countries become more and more of a force.

And the MAJORITY of this country does NOT support the action WITHOUT UN authority, try to get your facts straight.

That depends on what poll you look at... BUT that is not what I said... I stated that a majority agree with what Bush is doing.
AND that is correct... (from a Feb 12 CBS poll)
53% of all Americans agree with how Bush has handled the situation. hmmm.. that puts YOU in the minority.

And, I take offense to your comment about }not being forced to live in the US". Since when doesnt anyone inthis country ahve a right to say what is on their mind. Your comment is very offensive.

Take offense all you want... but I would suggest you improve your reading comprehension skills before you jump to any further conclusions. I did not state that you were not entitled to your opinion, nor did I say you are unAmerican, nor did I make any idiotic "America:love it or leave it" comments. You just assumed that was my intent. My comment was that BUSH was not making you stay here in a country where the MAJORITY agrees with his actions on this matter. THEREFORE I don't see the logic behind you blaming HIM for "backing you into a corner." Do you blame Clinton for "backing the USA into a corner" in Kosovo?

Hey, complain all you want... be a vocal dissenter.... that is why America is so great; we ALLOW dissent. BUT don't misrepresent your opinion as if was the majority's opinion and that we are all sheep being led to slaughter by big bad Bush. You give him way too much credit. He is way too weak of character to do anything that wouldn't garner majority support.

--Kyle

freak

02-15-2003, 05:22 PM

NEM,

Why are you talking about intelligence? ;)

You're the guy blaming Weiss for the same things you blamed Zampese for. And the two couldn't be more different.

freak

02-15-2003, 05:23 PM

What "UN authority"?

The United States is a sovereign country.

freak

02-15-2003, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by NEM
Open your eyes and see what is happening.

Better listen to him, man.

This is the same guy who has been saying all along, that Weiss needs to throw more quick slants and look-in passes. If Weiss would only get that through his head, the Pats offense would be just fine.

And if you would only get it through your head, you'd see that NEM is right, and we should get rid of Bush.

Spirit of 76

02-16-2003, 06:54 PM

If you think mentioning the outcome of the election will prove any point in GW's Presidency, then said point must be pretty weak to begin with.
If you think that France and Germany deserve more appeasement than England, Italy, Spain or Turkey then you have no idea of the meaning of "friend" or "ally."
For Bush to know what he did about Iraq coming into his Presidency just shows how much was ignored by our last President. Don't assume that Clinton would have taken out Saddam if need be. Fact is he just ignored the problem and hoped it would just go away.....sort of how France and Germany feel.
Many left-wingers have a problem with corporate greed, the environment and civil rights. All of these are issues beyond pale in Iraq with death-squads and bio-terror not to mention that Germany and France have sold the most recent components of these mechanisms to Iraq...thus their EuroDollar-driven protestations to "picking on poor Saddam."
To say that Bush is a buffoon because he has posted a cabinet of men and women who's talents may surpass his own reflects that you know nothing of humility or the use of superior talent.
I really will not get into a debate over whether or not Bill Clinton would have or could have done better after Sept. 11. I just thank God I will never really have to know.
I have worked for the Federal Government under every President since Jimmy Carter. I have done the same quality of work under every one of them and will continue to do so, no matter who is the present Chief of Staff. None has ever moved me to change my job until George Dubya. Sure Sept. 11 had plenty to do with that. Actually, much more than Bush but, the fact remains that I can see action following words, leadership out front and communicating, all questions being taken into consideration and all efforts truly being exerted toward a common goal. That is until you look for the real environmentalists and the Amnesty Internationals. They have changed their marching orders and the enemies of their causes are not nuclear weapons and children in sweat shops and women in bondage and genocide and oppression and race-hating and gender-based acts of crime. No, they have all left Iraq and North Korea alone. In fact, they have all decided to side with them. To rail against their TRUE ENEMY. Truth and freedom....the United States. The only country that would do it alone because it is right. Some are only interested in looking good....others in doing good. In this case those two will probably never mix. Choose your mission.

freak

02-16-2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by FallingAlice
American leadership is required to turn this situation around.

Tell me again where the Constitution says this.

The effects of Global warming are huge...second only in effect to a nuclear catastrophe.

That's more debateable than the "General Welfare" issue in the Consitution.

Spirit of 76

02-17-2003, 03:20 PM

The only European countries that have seemed to get any press are the one's that have been living off freedom paid for with American blood. Ask any ex-Soviet Bloc citizen what should be done. You will get a truer picture of the realities of the region. Still we have a madman with tons of horrible crap...dare I call it environementally threatening materials?...and a whole slew of wackos that are worldwide and would just love to deliver it to your hometown personally. I guess if that doesn't depict a need to oust Saddam then the rest of the story is irrelevant....let's all commit suicide together. There is a real race to recover or destroy what he has hidden or live in TRUE fear for the rest of our lives.
The lack of a real plan on post-Saddam Iraq is not a problem for just the countries that take part in ousting Saddam. Would France, Germany and the anti-war Americans deny Iraq any support to rebuild or monetary aid to let the people of that country decide for themselves how they should be governed? I would not be suprised to see some say "Hey I had nothing to do with it! Let the U. S. figure it out!" That is not what I expect though. I hope that if the UN has any true heart that it will say well we didn't want war but, now that you've taken that measure we will certainly help those that are left to find a decent life. After all that is what we are all about....at least I think we are.
I am not dismissing Germany's importance in the whole matter. In fact, they are doing a great job of rounding up terror cells. I am bothered by their politicizing the whole matter and expect that when the spit hits the fan they will be able to be counted on.
Bush's approval rating has nothing to do with this. Like I said...some people only want to look good. GW is not of that ilk. We are not an Imperial Empire and those that believe we are don't know us. We are THE Democracy...driven by capitalism. Those two seem to mix better than any other kind of government in place during our lifetime. You can't drive democracy with communism or socialism. You can't have a tyranny that has Capitalist goals.
Disliking Bush's verbal skills is so hypocritical coming from the Left. It would be OK to be an illiterate anywhere in America as long as the quota was filled. We have 5'3" woman driving State Police Cruisers who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag but don't get me started on that crap. Only an intellectual snob would think that because Bush talks in simple English that he is a buffoon. For God's sake you can't get an unslurred, free-flowing, well thought out sentence out of Ted Kennedy. When has anyone ever questioned his intelligence? That is childish! Sort of like when I heard someone say "how could anyone vote for a guy that looks like Ross Perot?" His looks? Snobs! Hypocrites!
Bush's foreign and domestic policies have been pretty much skewed by Sept. 11th. He has passed a $1 billion program to further advance the use of hydrogen powered automobiles. That is a great start in that direction. I still haven't seen any real proof of Global warming. Hell, there is proof that the ozone layer gets bigger and smaller in natural occuring cycles....well until Saddam lit up Kuwait and let it burn for a couple of weeks because he wasn't welcome....something he just might try in his own country and a good reason to bet that the people he has oppressed won't let his sorry ass do that again.
Anyway there are a lot of questions. Inaction isn't the answer though. We have been handed a situation that will forever change the scope of the world. That was the intention on Sept.11 What do we do? Ignore the task at hand? Hope for better days? Let Saddam Hussein spread smallpox and just nuke North Korea? No easy answers or fixes here. No slick words to bail us out. " That depends on what is, is." will not save the day. The stakes are a little higher than how we come out looking and who will still like us? Believe me, I am all for the environment. I love nature. No-one abhors nature. Saddam Hussein has a disdain for all things living as long as they are a threat to his dominance.
The fact that there are no protests about North Korea's nuclear capabilities lead me to believe that the Left support it. If there was a chance to get on TV with a sign and sing Hey Hey...HO HO...Korean Nukes have got to go!....they'd be all over it. They live for that. It makes their blood flow....But no. Not a comfortable enough prospect. These guys just may run us over if we lay in the street in front of their trucks.
Questions and criticism are everyone's right...at least in the US they are. In this situation they don't help. The only answer has been to wait. Not good enough. Wait for what? Saddam to die of natural causes? Wait until everyone will say Uncle? Wait for a radiological device to be exploded at a train station?
If you can't stomach George W. Bush then, have the decency to listen to Colin Powell. The man deserves to be listened to. He knows what he is talking about.
During Col. Oliver North's Congressional Ass-Frying he stated that the most dangerous man alive was Usama Bin Laden. No-one had even heard of him and some arrogant jerks even snickered in a Congressional Hearing at the mention that he threatened North's family. A threat which prompted him to pay about $45000 for a security system. Let's not snicker. These men have dedicated their lives to saving ours. They know what they know. Opinions are seldom heard from these people. They deal in facts. Are they beyond reproach? No. Do they have our best interests at heart? Absolutely. Will they do whatever has to be done to do what is right? Absolutely. It's not who's right but, what's right here. You can't really claim to have anyone but Saddam's interest at heart if you think he can be dealt with any other way. I have family overseas too. They are adamant about finishing what needs to be finished. They are steadfast in carrying that out. Just like Bin Laden's guys are steadfast at carrying death to our doors. The choices aren't many about what to do here. Anything is better than doing nothing.

Austin

02-17-2003, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by Spirit of 76

During Col. Oliver North's Congressional Ass-Frying he stated that the most dangerous man alive was Usama Bin Laden. No-one had even heard of him and some arrogant jerks even snickered in a Congressional Hearing at the mention that he threatened North's family. A threat which prompted him to pay about $45000 for a security system.

I agree with alot of what you stated... but the Ollie North/Bin Laden thing is an urban myth... http://www.snopes.com/rumors/north.htm ... just a heads up.

--Kyle

Spirit of 76

02-17-2003, 06:00 PM

Good lookin out Austin. I watched that particular hearing and remembered that Ollie said that he would meet Abu Nidal anywhere on earth if he wanted. When I heard the Usama thing I thought that I had just missed that part. Thanks. I was wrong.
The point is....who at that time had heard of Abu Nidal? These guys have a better handle on situations than we will ever have. It is usually ancient history before we get to know facts. Bet your bottom dollar that Colin Powell has enough info to specify where a lot of that stuff is but, won't or can't reveal it without alerting the enemy. Thus the pretty fuzzy picture of what Iraq has in his address to the UN.

Spirit of 76

02-17-2003, 06:50 PM

When all else fails start the name-calling.
Your arrogance concerning Bush's English is beyond petty. Did you vote for Jessie Jackson? Would you? Could you? If I though he was pure of heart I would....regardless of his idiotic poems and made up words.....if that is what malapropism is. How about William F. Buckley? He is quite well-versed in the Queen's English. He makes my head hurt with his arrogance.....kind of like you Alice.
Right now, I guess War has been the only thing left. Do you really think that more Inspectors will help? Do you really care if there is an alternative? Is your only concern to help the slip-sliding phoneys in the Democratic party try to gain some purchase?
The reference to the 5'3" women has to do with being able to actually do the job. You know...arresting men on the Mass Highways without being thrown into a ditch. Yeah, they pass the muster, I guess. Just like Bush got elected...I guess. We won't get into the fact that Gore people caused massive traffic jams in conservative areas to divert people from the pols. I know, lunatic paranoia on my part. Geesh a loon. I have been called worse, no doubt. Usually for something a little more uncivil than questioning someone's reason for lack of support or shedding light on a hypocritical bent. You may be totally unlike anything I am thinking of you FallingAlice. I don't think you are insincere. I do think you are somewhat of a selective snot when you bring up grammar. What many in Massachusetts think of as being articulate, the major part of this Nation considers being a bullshitartist.
Anyway, none of what we are mentioning has anything to do with what is right in the course of Iraq's present. What do we do? In grand English or simple WTF is going on, we need a solution. Do you want to place your own safety in the hands of the UN? I don't really think they care about me or you. Al Qaida is coming for you and me and every religion, race, sex and political opinion within our borders. Think about it. If Bozo The Clown were in charge I would be pulling for an effing clown epiphany.

dropKickMurphy

02-17-2003, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by FallingAlice
There's plenty of scientific proof about global warming. If you like, I can flood the thread with it.

Proof? Alice, I'm really surprised to hear you put it that way. I realize you can flood the thread with evidence to support your point of view, but that falls far short of proof.
I could also flood the thread with evidence supported by prominent physical scientists that global warming is not happening.
Before you jump all over me, I am not saying whether or not I believe in global warming. My view is that the question is still unresolved. What bothers me is the way that proponents of global warming have attempted to treat this as a proven...closed...subject. I can show you numerous quotes from global warming advocates saying that virtually 100% of the scientists in the world agree with them. In fact that is far from the truth. This attempt to prematurely stifle the legitimate scientific debate on the topic has everything to do with politics, and nothing to do with science.

dropKickMurphy

02-17-2003, 08:17 PM

Originally posted by FallingAlice
[B]......He has a hard time constructing meaningful sentences and he's given to malapropisms. It's embarrassing.

Alice, you weren't by any chance referring to Al Gore, were you? I agree with you, Al's malapropisms were embarassing. Thank God we didn't elect him:
-----------------------

"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."

"Democrats understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child."

"Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow astronauts."

"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe."

"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."

"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change."

"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is 'to be prepared.'"

"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things."

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future."

"The future will be better tomorrow."

"We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world."

"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a *part* of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a *part* of Europe."

"Public speaking is very easy."

"I am not part of the problem. I am a Democrat."

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."

"When I have been asked who caused the riots and the killing in L.A., my answer has been direct and simple: Who is to blame for the riots? The rioters are to blame. Who is to blame for the killings? The killers are to blame.

"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it."

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."

"For NASA, space is still a high priority."

"Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children."

"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Al Gore may or may not make."

"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made."

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."

"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system."

Spirit of 76

02-17-2003, 08:25 PM

DKM that was precious! My sides are splitting. Now, would I not vote for the guy if his platform were more to my liking? No, I would vote and hope to hear him speak often...that is entertaining.
"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system
Yes Al, it is time. Let me be the first to join you in this mission. Lead On!

freak

02-17-2003, 08:51 PM

Originally posted by FallingAlice
Freak, not all political discussions are about the constitution.

My post and the point that you reference wasn't about the U.S. constititution. It's about practical international politics and the environment. Global warming wasn't an issue for the framers of the U.S. constitution. Nor is the issue of global warming germain to the Constitution.

Your myopia and inability to frame a political argument outside of a very narrow interpretation of "Constitutionality" condemns you to your own special place on the lunatic fringe of political discussion -- the hysterical right-wing reflection of NEM.

Nice try, Alice, but no cigar.....

You asserted that the American leadership is "required" to reverse certain environmental trends.

If the Constitution doesn't require them to address this, what does?

There is no environmental amendment to the Constitution making this a responsibility of government.

So if it isn't in the Constitution, nor has the Constitution been amended to include this as a responsibility of government, where does this obligation come from? Hmm?

If there is ANY obligation as to such, it rests with the individual States.

spinaltap

02-18-2003, 10:21 AM

NEM, still a little bitter about the dade county fiasco? I'll tell you what, why don't you move to Iraq because you don't deserve to reap the benefits of living in this country. You are a disgrace to humanity! I think Mr. Bush is doing a fine job. He doesn't take any ****, and that is more than I can say for "let's toss a couple of cruise missiles at an aspirin factory" Bill Clinton. Let me ask you this question: If the world had taken a pre-emptive approach to the hitler situation, do you think that World War 2 would have even taken place? Why don't you get a freakin life and move to some arab shithole! You make me sick.

freak

02-18-2003, 10:03 PM

Alice,

Then YOU need to start clarifying your statements.

In no way did I read your comment as saying that American leadership is necessary to reverse this hypothetical idea of global warming.

It seemed very clear that you were implying that this was a responsibility of the American leadership.

Hence, my asking what establishes that as a responsibility.

So which is it?

02-19-2003, 01:13 PM

From time to time we here at PatriotsPlanet (from here on referred to as "the Planet") will come across an interesting and thought-provoking argument. At such times the Planet may decide to jump in the middle of that otherwise compelling and interesting argument and dialtectize it. The Planet may decide that it is globally warm enough. The planet may decide to vent these gasses if for no other reason than because it can. This here is one of them times....

Without further ado, this thread according to the Clampetts.

As enny fool kin plainly see (http://rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectp.cgi?dialect=redneck&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.patriotsplanet.com%2FBB%2Fsho wthread.php%3Fs%3D%26postid%3D22656%23post22656)

Adam

02-22-2003, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by NEM
...that when King George took office, one of the VERY FIRST items on his agenda (long before 9/11) was to "settle the iraq problem." (Sounds like something Adolph Hitler said a long time ago.)

Thanks for rendering your own point of view to be completely absurd right from the beginning.

Every time I see somebody defending Saddam Hussein and comparing Bush to Hitler, I know more than ever that war is the only way to settle this conflict, and that the mewling protesters are nothing more than misguided fools.

NEM

02-25-2003, 12:09 AM

If you don't believe that King George has a personal vendetta aainst Saddam Hussein, then I havent got a clue where your brain is.

Not that I am backing Hussein, he DOES have to go, but Bush is out to avenge his father, and has been since day one...

When he screwed up with Usama Bin laden, and Bin laden made Bush look like the buffoon that he is, King George shifted his attention to Iraq, something he has wanted to do since he took office....

Yes, Saddam Hussein is an evil person and , somehow, he has to be removed, but, it it woth the risk of thousands, perhaps millions of innocent American, and other, lives to do it this way.

Bush is a liar and an evil person, in his own right.

I totally disagree with the way he is handling this situation with the way he is handling the economy, and with the strong arm tactics he is attempting to use around the entire world.

It's no wonder that most of the world is now lining up AGAINST us, in more ways than one.

Bush has alienated many of our friends and it will conmtinue to get worse. He is a buffoon, someone with no intelligence or knowledge about world affairs, yet alone the affairs of the local economy.

If we go to war, I will back the country, I will respect the flag, I will back the office of the presidency, but, I will have very little respect for the man in the office, for it is he that will lead this country to destruction.

And, if any of you , out there, dont think that we will see retaliation like you could not imagine, then you really havent got a clue, just like the buffoon in the white house.

I am an American. I served my country. I love the flag and what this country stands for. It makes me sick to see a buffoon destroy everything that the people of this country have put together for over 225 years, and he will destroy it all, in just over two years.

I am not saying that I support Saddam Hussein, I certainly do not, but George Bush has been a fool since the beginning and he will be responsible for , possibly, millions of deaths, mostly innocent people.

How can he live with it in front of his maker. He deceives, he lies, he cheats, all for revenge and a vendetta that he has carried to the oval office.

freak

02-25-2003, 12:40 AM

When's the first "Weiss is a cancer" post due out, NEM?

spinaltap

02-25-2003, 08:26 AM

NEM, if he is responsible for millions of deaths......I hope you are one of those millions! You are a complete and utter *******. Move to Iraq and join the republican guard you freak.

NEM

02-25-2003, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by shurkis
NEM, if he is responsible for millions of deaths......I hope you are one of those millions! You are a complete and utter *******. Move to Iraq and join the republican guard you freak.

Your comments are so typical of the "bubba" mentality. Freedom of speech is one of the rights that we, in this country, fought to preserve. Where did you fight to preserve it moron.

People like you with the "love it or leave it" mentality are the real problems with this country. You fall inline like the rats that the pied piper lured with his flute.

Wake up to reality, this country was founded on free speech, and opinion. And, if you really read mypost, you would see where MYT love for this country is, for ALL PEOPLE< with dissenting opinions. Your mind is narrow and closed minded, and has no tolerance, and it is people like you who will cause the wars that will , eventully, develop within our own borders.

You are a disgrace to the freedoms of this great country of ours. It is words like yours that usually permeate out of the mouths of people like Saddam Hussein and other dictators. If ytou dont like it, leave or die, is what you are saying.

Now, if you are capable of it, think of what you are saying. Those are not the words that would come from the mouths of free loving people.

You are a dictator and a disgusting individual.

dropKickMurphy

02-25-2003, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by NEM

And, if you really read mypost, you would see where MY love for this country is, for ALL PEOPLE with dissenting opinions.....

....Where did you fight to preserve it moron.

....You fall inline like the rats that the pied piper lured with his flute.

....You are a dictator and a disgusting individual.

------------------------

NEM, you sure do have an unusual way of expressing your love for people with dissenting opinions.

pookie

02-25-2003, 04:27 PM

Not addressing this to any-nem in particular and this one may get censored out, but this is funny and I'm due for a good slap on the wrist by our smart and attractive moderators!

NEM

02-25-2003, 06:16 PM

And, it applies to BOTH sides of the aisle, or is it just for one side of the aisle that must shut up, according to a few of the commentators here.

And, if so, that is dictatorship, exactly what we are fighting against... either agree with me or shut up, leave or die.

You see, the guy in the picture, in the uniform, represents ALL the ones who came before him, preserving our way of life and our freedom of speech, without having to be harrassed by those with a different point of view.

But, as we all now know, this administration will NOT listen to opposing views. he even said that he does not pay attention to the protesters. Therefore, what we currently have leading this country, and those like the posters above, is a dictatorship, or the makings of one.

And, there is absolutely no way that you, nor anyone else, can disagree with this point, the proof is in the pudding, as they say..

Thank you for posting that, it proves my point.

pookie

02-25-2003, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by FallingAlice
Praise the lord, and pass the ammunition.

Where does this saying come from originally? I heard it in a System of a Down song, but I doubt they coined it.......

pookie

02-25-2003, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by NEM

Thank you for posting that, it proves my point.

Here ya go NEM... From pookie the 34 year old dictator.....what a dumb ass you are!!

NEM

02-25-2003, 08:56 PM

Classless, but typical, and expected. Go dictate to someone else, You are not an American at all, you are just another dictator falling right in line with the lies of this administration...go read todays NY Times where 40 let me repeat that 40 of king geroges lies are in print...he is going down faster than i could ever imagine...now i hope he doesnt kill thousands, maybe millions, of innocent people on his way down.

pookie

02-25-2003, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by NEM
Classless, but typical, and expected. Go dictate to someone else, You are not an American at all, you are just another dictator falling right in line with the lies of this administration...go read todays NY Times where 40 let me repeat that 40 of king geroges lies are in print...he is going down faster than i could ever imagine...now i hope he doesnt kill thousands, maybe millions, of innocent people on his way down.

Charlie Weiss and I are huddled in a corner, NEM, praying that King George doesn't come kill us and millions of others, that ruthless dictator...... He's bringin' us all down NEM, he's bringing us down. By the way, Chicken Little, the sky is falling.

BOO!!

Hey, at least you've brought some comedy to this thread. Bwaaaahahahahahahaha!

NEM

02-25-2003, 11:06 PM

You are an ass. Don't you have anything original to add, or something to disprove what I said. And, there is only one "s" in Weis....you can't even get that right.

Go rule the world somewhere else.

How old are you, by the way, 12?

freak

02-26-2003, 12:16 AM

Charlie Weis is a cancer.

If he would just throw more quick slants and look-in passes, the offense would be all set.

And he always starts off the game running on 1st and 2nd down, putting the offense in a predictable 3rd and long. No variety.

What? What's that you say? Weis actually called a majority of passing plays to open a game, and a good percentage of 2nd down passes too?

Well, that doesn't mean anything, because you don't know the context of the situation or whether those passes were complete.

Yes, I know that it WAS the first offensive series, and that you DID provide the completions and yardage for those attempts, but I'm just going to ignore them.

Because if I acknowledged them, I would have to admit I'm wrong.

:D

NEM

02-26-2003, 08:48 AM

Dont count the overall numbers, because many of them were in desperatin time, when he HAD to pass to catch up, because of his horrible play calling for the first three quarters, plus.

It's like the quarterback who throws for 350 yards in a game but still loses, because the team was behind by 20 points in the fourth quarter and opposing defenses go into a "bend but not break" mode and the QB rolls up 125 yards in the final quarter, most of which are meaningless.

Look at the overall picture, then your eyes will open up...it is WHEN you call certain plays, the game situation at that particular time, what you do after you take a turnover away from the oipposition, especially in their territory, and what you do in the red zone....

You havent got a clue as to the OVERALL problem, you dont know how to read INTO stats and determine when, and where, and how they were attained.

At least you know how to spell his name.

And, for the record, you are using wrong terminology, again...I have NEVER called him a "cancer", that was reserved for Ernie Zampese, and, as usual, the Pats themselves found that out, and let him go.

And, if not for the Super Bowl performance of the defense and special teams, with Weis in the right place, at the right time, he would have been let go, too.

Now, the rest of the NFL has seen him exposed, and he is getting NO calls to be a head coach, as I expected would happen.

But, that's your opinion, and I respect it, wrong as it may be.

And, what does Charlie Weis have to do with this thread, or are you limited to one subject at a time.

pookie

02-26-2003, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by NEM
You are an ass. Don't you have anything original to add, or something to disprove what I said. And, there is only one "s" in Weis....you can't even get that right.

Go rule the world somewhere else.

How old are you, by the way, 12?

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!!!!

Most of your posts are nothing but the same un-original rambling hatred for King George and I won't argue with your senile ass about it. I'll never claim to be a political pundit, but your ramblings are out there dude.....way out there.

As for spelling.... You are right, I misspelled Weis. But take a good long look at the majority of your posts man. They're filled with incomprehensible words and jibberish, so go spell check someone else you f**k.

:fire:

Also, if you would actually read some of my posts, you'd know that I'm 11 years old fruitcake! But my 10 year old son says hi NEM.........

02-26-2003, 01:33 PM

**** Shurkis -- your post has been deleted. Telling someone to kill themselves because you disagree is going to far.

I'm not really too excited about where this thread has been and where it is going. If you disagree with him -- ARGUE your viewpoint or stay out of the thread. If the collective idea of making a political argument consists of name calling and personal attacks then it has no business on the board.

In order to delete one post I must first select EVERY post in the thread and indicate that it is not to be deleted. This is a major hassle. It is far easier to delete the entire thread -- something I am inclined to do based solely on the relative merit of the posts contained within. Everyone posting here should keep that in mind.

-NR

spinaltap

02-26-2003, 01:56 PM

NoRespect, that guy is a loser. That's not my opinion, it's a fact! I'm sorry if I crossed the line and told him to take his own life. That was wrong of me.

dropKickMurphy

02-26-2003, 02:26 PM

Originally posted by NEM
And, for the record, you are using wrong terminology, again...I have NEVER called him a "cancer".....

Yeah, Pookie, get your terminology right. NEM has never called Weis a "cancer". He has used the following phrases to describe Weis:

... totally inept, complete moron, totall A$$hole and imbecile ...
.... the man is a totally useless piece of crap....
.... incabpable (note NEM's spelling prowess, Pook) of coaching in the NFL. ...
....exposes him for the jerk that he is.....
...The man doesnt deserve to be on the field with these athletes and Bill Belilchick better do something to contain his ineptness NOW...
...Weis sucks, he is a complete, inept and pathetic offensive coordinator, and the fact that he almost died, for which I felt very bad about, means nothing...
...We have got to get rid of this crud....
...exposed for the inept faker that he is...

Of course NEM follows up with his usual disclaimer:
And, those are facts that can not be denied...

And, just to show that he has no hard feelings toward Weis, NEM generously offers the following
...Hopefully my comments will be positive, if he sees the light, and LORD knows, I will be there to guide him and assist him in any way...

02-26-2003, 03:21 PM

Originally posted by shurkis
NoRespect, that guy is a loser. That's not my opinion, it's a fact! I'm sorry if I crossed the line and told him to take his own life. That was wrong of me.

The apology is appreciated, however it would be more contrite to apologize without that one last bit of name calling. His disagreement with your opinions doesn't make him a loser.

I don't agree with NEM on every issue (and I rarely if ever agree with HOW he says things) but I think he provides a useful counterpoint to the opinions on this board. Without opinion such as his the collective "knowledge" on this board would hardly be tolerable. By choosing to be abusive and dismissive you (and others in this thread) don't lend a great deal of credibility to your own opinions.

NEM has a tendency to personalize his arguments and to resort to name calling and that makes it hard to resist doing the same. He is not alone in that tendency. In hockey they penalize the guy that instigates -- and the guy that joins-in.

It is precisely for times such as these that we have football. :)

Ballbustah

02-26-2003, 03:30 PM

Tony Parsons. London Daily Mirror, September 11, 2002

One year ago, the world witnessed a unique kind of broadcasting -- the mass
murder of thousands, live on television. As a lesson in the pitiless cruelty
of the human race, September 11 was up there with Pol Pot's Mountain of
Skulls in Cambodia, or the skeletal bodies stacked like garbage in the Nazi
concentration camps.

An unspeakable act so cruel, so calculated and so utterly merciless that
surely the world could agree on one thing - nobody deserves this fate.
Surely there could be consensus: The victims were truly innocent, the
perpetrators truly evil.

But to the world's eternal shame, 9/11 is increasingly seen as America's
comeuppance. Incredibly, anti-Americanism has increased over the last year.
There has always been a simmering resentment to the USA in this country; too
loud, too rich, too full of themselves, and so much happier than Europeans -
but it has become an epidemic. And it seems incredible to me. More than
that, it turns my stomach.

America is this country's greatest friend and our staunchest ally. We are
bonded to the US by culture, language and blood. A little over half a
century ago, around half a million Americans died for our freedoms, as well
as their own. Have we forgotten so soon? And exactly a year ago, thousands
of ordinary men, women and children - not just Americans, but from dozens of
countries, were butchered by a small group of religious fanatics. Are we so
quick to betray them?

What touched the heart about those who died in the Twin Towers and on the
planes, was that we recognized them. Young fathers and mothers, somebody's
son and somebody's daughter, husbands, wives, and children, some unborn.

And these people brought it on themselves? Their nation is to blame for
their meticulously planned slaughter?

These days you don't have to be some dust-encrusted nut job in Kabul or
Karachi or Finsbury Park to see America as the Great Satan. The
anti-American alliance is made up of self-loathing liberals who blame the
Americans for every ill in the Third World, and conservatives suffering from
power-envy, bitter that the world's only superpower can do what it likes
without having to ask permission.

The truth is that America has behaved with enormous restraint since
September 11.

Remember, remember -

Remember the gut-wrenching tapes of weeping men phoning their wives to say,
"I love you," before they were burned alive.

Remember those people leaping to their deaths from the top of burning
skyscrapers.

Remember the hundreds of firemen buried alive.

Remember the smiling face of that beautiful little girl who was on one of
the planes with her mum.

Remember, remember -

And realize that America has never retaliated for 9/11 in anything like the
way it could have.

So a few al-Qaeda tourists got locked without a trial in Camp X-ray? Pass
the Kleenex...

So some Afghan wedding receptions were shot up after they merrily fired
their semi-automatics in a sky full of American planes? A shame, but maybe
next time they should stick to confetti.

AMERICA could have turned a large chunk of the world into a parking lot.
That it didn't is a sign of strength. American voices are already being
raised against attacking Iraq - that's what a democracy is for. How many in
the Islamic world will have a minute's silence for the slaughtered innocents
of 9/11? How many Islamic leaders will have the guts to say that the mass
murder of 9/11 was an abomination?

When the news of 9/11 broke on the West Bank, those freedom-loving
Palestinians were dancing in the street. America watched all of that - and
didn't push the button. We should thank the stars that America is the most
powerful nation in the world. I still find it incredible that 9/11 did not
provoke all-out war. Not a "war on terrorism." A real war.

The fundamentalist dudes are talking about "opening the gates of hell," if
America attacks Iraq. Well, America could have opened the gates of hell like
you wouldn't believe.

The US is the most militarily powerful nation that ever strode the face of
the earth. The campaign in Afghanistan may have been less than perfect and
the planned war on Iraq may be misconceived.

But don't blame America for not bringing peace and light to these wretched
countries. How many democracies are there in the Middle East, or in the
Muslim world? You can count them on the fingers of one hand - assuming you
haven't had any chopped off for minor shoplifting.

I love America, yet America is hated. I guess that makes me Bush's poodle.
But I would rather be a dog in New York City than a Prince in Riyadh. Above
all, America is hated because it is what every country wants to be - rich,
free, strong, open, optimistic. Not ground down by the past, or religion, or
some caste system. America is the best friend this country ever had and we
should start remembering that.

Or do you really think the USA is the root of all evil? Tell it to the loved
ones of the men and women who leaped to their death from the burning towers.

Tell it to the nursing mothers whose husbands died on one of the hijacked
planes, or were ripped apart in a collapsing skyscraper. And tell it to the
hundreds of young widows whose husbands worked for the New York Fire
Department.

To our shame, George Bush gets a worse press than Saddam Hussein. Once we
were told that Saddam gassed the Kurds, tortured his own people and set up
rape-camps in Kuwait. Now we are told he likes Quality Street. Save me the
orange center, Oh Mighty One!

Remember, remember, September 11 -

One of the greatest atrocities in human history was committed against
America.

No, do more than remember; never forget!

dropKickMurphy

02-26-2003, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by NoRespect
....In hockey they penalize the guy that instigates -- and the guy that joins-in.....:)

Don't forget, NR, that the third man in gets an automatic game misconduct. That's the great thing about hockey....attempting to break up a fight is considered to be a more serious offense than fighting.

pookie

02-26-2003, 04:54 PM

I suppose I was the "third man in" on this thread and I apologize for trying to spoil NEM's anti-George Bush platform and agenda.

Sorry, but how can you argue with NEM?

I think Bush is doing a decent job under the extreme circumstances that befell him. Think of the stress. As has been pointed out, he's probably not the president with the highest IQ and seems to be an embarrassment to some, but I'm on his side because he's on the side of America and has America's best interest in mind. This stuff about the vendetta against Hussein because of his Daddy.....please.

I know I'm not the only person here who happened to flourish under the leadership of Bill Clinton's administration but what kind of person was Wild Willie? He got a hummer in the oval office for crying out loud. But I don't really care about that because he, like Bush, was/is looking out for the best interest of Americans. This nonsense of Bush killing millions of Americans on his way down is just ridiculous. A political thread is one thing with the experts yelling "left wing", "right wing" and "Sulli, I'm open in the slot"!! But this thread was just a personal platform.

Besides, I've been waiting a long time to post that middle finger and the big cup of STFU, man!

Undertaker #59

02-26-2003, 05:02 PM

I love that London article, thank you for posting it Ballbustah.

I agree, Pookie, and I have avoided much of this thread because of the insane ramblings, suppositions, and lack of coherent thought. I have no problem with NEM feeling the way he does, but instead of laying out basic points to debate, he rambles on and on seemingly filled with hate. These posts are very similar to his posts on whomever the Patriots offensive coordinator happens to be.

02-26-2003, 06:10 PM

Originally posted by pookie
I suppose I was the "third man in" on this thread and I apologize for trying to spoil NEM's anti-George Bush platform and agenda.

Sorry, but how can you argue with NEM?

Besides, I've been waiting a long time to post that middle finger and the big cup of STFU, man!

You will notice that I didn't issue the game misconduct for the cup o' joe. I have that same photo on my computer and I too was waiting for the right troll to come along and earn it. NEM has not been an angel.

I understand the reluctance to argue politics with him because he will just turn around and insult you -- and restate the identical argument. On this I agree. However, he is not alone in that tactic. He is just more obvious about it. I choose not to debate people like that because I think it is pointless. The trick is not getting dragged down to that level and start hurling insults. What the board needs is a few trolls so that we are not fighting amongst ourselves.

pookie

02-26-2003, 09:04 PM

Not sure where else to post this... but check this out! The chosen plan for the Twin Towers site. This is going to be beautiful!

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/02/26/wtc.finalist.ap/index.html

NEM

02-26-2003, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by dropKickMurphy
Yeah, Pookie, get your terminology right. NEM has never called Weis a "cancer". He has used the following phrases to describe Weis:

... totally inept, complete moron, totall A$$hole and imbecile ...
.... the man is a totally useless piece of crap....
.... incabpable (note NEM's spelling prowess, Pook) of coaching in the NFL. ...
....exposes him for the jerk that he is.....
...The man doesnt deserve to be on the field with these athletes and Bill Belilchick better do something to contain his ineptness NOW...
...Weis sucks, he is a complete, inept and pathetic offensive coordinator, and the fact that he almost died, for which I felt very bad about, means nothing...
...We have got to get rid of this crud....
...exposed for the inept faker that he is...

Of course NEM follows up with his usual disclaimer:
And, those are facts that can not be denied...

And, just to show that he has no hard feelings toward Weis, NEM generously offers the following
...Hopefully my comments will be positive, if he sees the light, and LORD knows, I will be there to guide him and assist him in any way...

But, NEVER a cancer, right? Lighten up, life is too short.

NEM

02-26-2003, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by NoRespect
You will notice that I didn't issue the game misconduct for the cup o' joe. I have that same photo on my computer and I too was waiting for the right troll to come along and earn it. NEM has not been an angel.

I understand the reluctance to argue politics with him because he will just turn around and insult you -- and restate the identical argument. On this I agree. However, he is not alone in that tactic. He is just more obvious about it. I choose not to debate people like that because I think it is pointless. The trick is not getting dragged down to that level and start hurling insults. What the board needs is a few trolls so that we are not fighting amongst ourselves.

ME insult them?I think you have it backwards. I merely stated my view and my opinion on the current political situation, which, IMO will be proven to be the correct one, in time. It is I who have been called anti American, amongst other things, so please, get it right instead of just fallling in line.

Now, I will state my position once again, just so it can't be mis interpreted.

I am an American. I love my country. I have served my country. I respect the OFFICE of the presidency, i DO NOT respect the man in that position, right now.

He has a vendetta, he is a big business president, he is after the oil, no matter what sweet talking he continues to foll a lot of people with.

I despise Daddam Hussein and I bvelieve that, some way, he should be removed.

I just dont believe that a major escalation of war is the answer.

Many of you have absolutely no idea the repurcussions of an attack on iraq will cause, not even a hint.

Not only will the body bags be coming home, by the thousands, but thousands, perhaps millions of innocent people, right here on our shores, will be slaughtered by an evil people that have no respect for human life.

If we go to war, I will back it, i will stand behind our troops, and our administration, that does NOT mean I have to believe that it is the best solution.

Gooing to war against Iraq, and the occupation of that country, following an inevitible victory, will unite the Muslim world against us in a way that you could not imagine.

It will make 9/11 look like a walk in the park.

I dont profess to know what the answer is, or how to handle it, but I do know that King George's rush to war is not the answer, at least not right now.

He will open up an armageddon that has never been seen before on the face of the earth.

He is truly anignorant person, he has no comprehension of what the result will be. He talks of rebuilding Iraq. What does he think, that the Iraqui people are going to line the streets of Baghdad waving American flags. The man is out of touch with reality.

The mindset of the muslim world in the middle east is to destroy the United States, non mujslim allies...and, no matter how many saddam Husseins or Osama BinLadens we rid trhe world of, there will be five more to rise up for every one of them...

That is their life, that is their upbringing...and no George W Bush will ever change it...

So, is it worth thousands, perhaps millions of innocent lives to have the end result be no different than it is now...just different players, same game?

I am offended by those of you who say, for the most part, "if you dont like it, leave it."

That is not what this countries forefathers brought forth...what we have is a democracy of free speech.... positive, and negative....to be called names by those who disagree with my stand, i find that to be not acceptable under our principals of free speech.

And, it those that do it that are the weaker americans than I, for they lack the tolerance, and acceptance, that makes this country the greatest democracy in the world.

Going to war, this war, will solve nothing, but it WILL kill thousands, or millions, of people , and destroy many, many families.

Is it worth it? There has to be a different way.

And, for the record, inspectors are not the answer either.

But, I will tell you this, George W. Bush is totally, 100% wrong in how he is handling this...all for a personal vendetta and oil for the Cheneys and the others.

George Bush is a liar of the first degree.

And now, now he has to bribe other coutries to vote with him in the UN and his press secretary, today, denied they are doint it. Just another lie from this administration.

pookie

02-26-2003, 10:17 PM

Originally posted by NEM

I despise Daddam Hussein and I bvelieve that, some way, he should be removed.

But, I will tell you this, George W. Bush is totally, 100% wrong in how he is handling this...all for a personal vendetta and oil for the Cheneys and the others.

George Bush is a liar of the first degree.

And now, now he has to bribe other coutries to vote with him in the UN and his press secretary, today, denied they are doint it. Just another lie from this administration.

Ohhh! Alrighty, I see the err in my ways now. You've spelled out your views for us now and thank you for clearing this all up for me! And all this time I thought you were one of those silly Bush advocates... My bad!

Night night, now....

NEM

02-26-2003, 10:58 PM

Your response is as childish, and immature, as I have ever seen, but, I guess it was to be expected.

Apparently, you can't dispute anything.

pookie

02-26-2003, 11:15 PM

Originally posted by NEM
Your response is as childish, and immature, as I have ever seen, but, I guess it was to be expected.

Apparently, you can't dispute anything.

Nothing to dispute NEM. Sorry.

I happen to like our president a fair amount and you hate him more than you hate the terroists who tried to and still want to destroy any American they come in contact with. It's funny how you speak casually of Hussein like "oh, ya, by the way, I do believe that Saddam should go.....", but for the leader of OUR country, you have the utmost hatred, sparing no insults and deforming his character without hesitation.

I'm pretty much through arguing with you because I hate politics in general and to be honest, I'm not a specialist, if you will....duhhhh. But what you spew is not politics really, it's hate ridden vomit and frankly even though you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I wish you'd shut the hell up. There are a bunch of folks on this board that'll make anybody's head spin with their political knowledge... You sir are not one of them. You are an angry, angry man and I refuse to continue to damage this board, that is supposed to be here for fun. You may continue on your own now sir.

02-26-2003, 11:47 PM

Originally posted by NEM
ME insult them?I think you have it backwards. I merely stated my view and my opinion on the current political situation, which, IMO will be proven to be the correct one, in time. It is I who have been called anti American, amongst other things, so please, get it right instead of just fallling in line.

First of all NEM, I didn't take exception to your argument so for you to suggest that I didn't understand what you have said is not only erroneous but illogical.

What I did is characterize the nature of your rhetorical style. My remarks were in response to Pookie's question, "Sorry, but how can you argue with NEM?" and on this issue I agree with him. Some of you observations are very pointed and accurate but at other times you make grand statements that cost you credibility and your intended audience. If you tone down the rhetoric you will get a better response. Broad generalizations tend to get broadly rejected.

I also said that you are not the only one who has resorted to personal attacks and insults. (However, don't deny the name calling, it is a trivial matter to prove it to you. Does "You are a dictator and a disgusting individual," sound familiar?) I was coming to your defense, but at the same time I don't have to agree with the manner in which you make your arguments.

When I said: "However, he (NEM) is not alone in that tactic. He is just more obvious about it. I choose not to debate people like that because I think it is pointless," I actually wasn't referring to you. You fill in the blanks.

As for making comments such as "falling in line" that is inaccurate AND insulting. I choose my battles carefully. I don't waste my time with an argument that falls on deaf ears. However, If I said it -- there's a damn good chance that I meant it. I don't take a position out of political convenience. I agree with some of your positions (not all) but I don't care for how you choose to say it. And that doesn't in any way suggest that I think any more highly of the debate on the other side of the issue.

NEM

02-26-2003, 11:52 PM

You said the following...

"I happen to like our president a fair amount and you hate him more than you hate the terroists who tried to and still want to destroy any American they come in contact with. It's funny how you speak casually of Hussein like "oh, ya, by the way, I do believe that Saddam should go.....", but for the leader of OUR country, you have the utmost hatred, sparing no insults and deforming his character without hesitation. "

Now I will respond to it.

Yes, I hate George W Bush. I have never hated an American president the way I hate him. But, it began long before 9/11, long before the day he stole the presidency.

BUt, for the record, I hate the ones who perpertrated 9/11 even more. I do not hate Saddam Hussein, I know very little of him and i dont know of any harm he has, directly, caused the U S , as of now.

But, i despise what kind of a person he is, and he disgusts me for how he runs his country and what he has done to his OWN people, and I believe he must be removed.

I hate George Bush for many reasons. i believe he lied his way to the presidency. i believe he is way too ignorant to hold that office.

I believe he caters to the wealthy.

Ibelieve he uses religion in such a way to appeal to the radical branch of Christianity.

Ibelieve he lied about being a moderate and then turned ultra conservative after taking office.

I believe he doesnt understand the real people of this country.

I believe he is using a personal vendetta to wage war.

I believe he lied about most of his business dealilngs in order to win an election.

He wants a medicare and prescription plan that will benefit the pharmeceutical cmpanies more than it will benefit the needy and the elderly.

He wont increase minimum wage so the honest, hard working poor can afford to feed their families.

His tax cut, mostly for the wealthy, will destroy social security and medicare, but he doesnt care.

He said he was moderate before the election, then nominatedhighly conservative and controversial judges, another lie.

It is just one lie after another, after another.

Just today, Arie Fleisher was laughed off the podium by the press when he was asked if the Bush administration is buying off foreign countries with promises...and Fleisher said that the answer was no, and that otrher countries wouldnt do that....

Why not just tell the truth, we ARE buying them off to get their votes, Turkey, Mexico, Angola, Cameroon, etc...
Just another of hundreds of administration lies.

And, just because he keeps preaching war, its the only way he can deceive the American public, like you, into thinking he's a good president.

He needs this war, he needs it badly, because without it, he would have a n approval rating of less than 30% the way he has destroyed our economy....

That is why it is he who is the warmonger, and why i hate the man....he willbe responsibile for many many deaths, for a vendetta, and to get re-elected to give him four more years to try to change all the good things tha thave happened to this country, as well as destroying the economy... I hope you enjoy paying 2.00 for a gallon of gas, thank your king.

And, thats going to be the tip of the iceberg as he continues to fluch the country down the toilet for his personal vendetta and the gains of his cronies.

He will go down in the history books as the worst president this country has ever seen.

Yes, I hate him. I hate him because of all the good americans that will be destroyed, in one way or another, because of him

freak

02-27-2003, 01:01 AM

Originally posted by NEM
Look at the overall picture, then your eyes will open up...it is WHEN you call certain plays, the game situation at that particular time, what you do after you take a turnover away from the oipposition, especially in their territory, and what you do in the red zone....

About what I expected.

You always prattle on about these contingencies and circumstances, yet you have NEVER, not ONCE, provided ANY proof of such.

You rest back on the assumption that your word is fact, and rely on others to prove you wrong.

The problem is that YOU are the one making the accusation, which means the burden of proof rests with YOU.

When provided with hard evidence that contradicts your assertions, you ignore it, and come up with babble like this:

You havent got a clue as to the OVERALL problem, you dont know how to read INTO stats and determine when, and where, and how they were attained.

:rolleyes:

This from the guy who never met a stat he liked, because they so often contradict his premises. http://pages.prodigy.net/rogerlori1/emoticons/lol9.gif

And, for the record, you are using wrong terminology, again...I have NEVER called him a "cancer", that was reserved for Ernie Zampese, and, as usual, the Pats themselves found that out, and let him go.

Actually, I've seen you use it for Weis too.

But, that's your opinion, and I respect it, wrong as it may be.

Gee, you're so benevolent. :rolleyes:

And, what does Charlie Weis have to do with this thread,

Nothing.

In other words, it makes about as much as sense as your diatribes against Bush on this thread.

freak

02-27-2003, 01:21 AM

And you insult other's spelling?

Daddam Hussein?

bvelieve?

Gooing?

anignorant?

Iraqui?

mujslim?

trhe?

Can we expect a "When you look at the overall picture, your eyes will open up" post if your predictions here don't come true too? Or what hypothetical circumstances, to which you will provide no proof, will you try to use to avoid admitting you were wrong?

freak

02-27-2003, 01:28 AM

Originally posted by NEM
[B]But, it began long before 9/11, long before the day he stole the presidency.

You just love digging yourself deeper, don't you?

Ibelieve he lied about being a moderate and then turned ultra conservative after taking office.

Now why does this sound familiar? Hmm, oh yeah, we just finished 8 years of the same on the other side of the aisle.

He wants a medicare and prescription plan that will benefit the pharmeceutical cmpanies more than it will benefit the needy and the elderly.

He wont increase minimum wage so the honest, hard working poor can afford to feed their families.

I didn't know a heart could bleed that much.

bideau

02-27-2003, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by NEM

Gooing to war against Iraq, and the occupation of that country, following an inevitible victory, will unite the Muslim world against us in a way that you could not imagine.

This perpetuates the myth that the Muslim world is against us. The fact is that the large majority of Muslims are peaceful people. Most Muslims see Saddam as a threat to their religion. Most Arab governments are against Saddam. He is a threat to their interests as well as ours. In any country there will be those that disagree. They're the ones that get the TV airplay.

He is truly anignorant person, he has no comprehension of what the result will be. He talks of rebuilding Iraq. What does he think, that the Iraqui people are going to line the streets of Baghdad waving American flags. The man is out of touch with reality.

No, they won't line the streets waving our flag. But there will be a general relief when he is gone. He has murdered untold thousands of his own people not only through executions and death squads, but by sending his army to war against Iran and the US, for no other reason than trying to conquer the middle east.

The mindset of the muslim world in the middle east is to destroy the United States, non mujslim allies...and, no matter how many saddam Husseins or Osama BinLadens we rid trhe world of, there will be five more to rise up for every one of them...

That is their life, that is their upbringing...and no George W Bush will ever change it...

This is a complete insult to Muslims all over the world. As I said above, most Muslims are peaceful. Most do not care about anything else except where their next meal is going to come from. We see staged demostrations by totalitarian governments, and that's what TV chooses to show us. It wouldn't be interesting to show people going about their everyday business. There are extremist Muslims just as there are extremist Christians (Jerry Falwell anyone?), and we have our very own KKK and skinheads.

I don't profess to have the answer to this issue. I do agree with some of the things you've said. There's not a single thing I like about George W. However, as NR said in a previous post, your rhetoric and approach makes most of us question your credibility. I rarely ever trust someone who throws out the type of arguments that you do, whether they're conservative or liberal.