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Captain Morgan
01-25-2008, 10:41 AM
ROFL
What's this... a rift in ketchupville?


Former Super Bowl MVP says Brady, Manning haven't requested taller receivers
Friday, January 25, 2008
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
Hines Ward spends his time these days at home in Atlanta, recovering from postseason surgery on his right knee. A different kind of hurt was delivered by his own quarterback last week.

Ben Roethlisberger called for the Steelers to acquire a tall wide receiver, specifically to help inside the 20 and for a bailout target when he's under pressure. He said he had that with 6-foot-5 Plaxico Burress, but not since after the 2004 season.

"I'm always going to ask for a tall receiver," Roethlisberger said in an interview with the Post-Gazette. "That's just me. Our receivers are unbelievable, but our tallest guy might be Hines. Or Santonio [Holmes]. Hines is going to say he's 6 foot, but he's 5-11."

That stung Ward, the most decorated Steelers receiver in history.

"I don't hear Tom Brady or Peyton Manning asking for that," Ward said yesterday.

"I don't know, whatever he says. I have no idea. To me, it's a rare combination of receivers out there who are good and tall. We won a Super Bowl, we didn't have a tall receiver then. I don't see Tom Brady caring about who's tall or not. He got Randy this year, but he did it before without him.''

Randy Moss, who is 6-4, is Brady's first good, tall receiver in New England, which is trying to win its fourth Super Bowl in the past seven seasons. Moss joined the team this year after a trade and set an NFL record with 23 touchdown receptions.

Reggie Wayne, one of Manning's stable of Indianapolis Colts receivers, led the NFL with 112 receptions and 1,510 yards this season. Like Ward, he is listed at 6 feet. So, too, is Marvin Harrison, who long has been Manning's favorite receiver.

"To me, I have enough problems to worry about than what Ben wants -- I can't give him the contract,'' Ward said, referring to Roethlisberger's wish to have a contract extension as soon as possible. "He wants a tall receiver? Why did we draft Santonio?"

Holmes, who stands 5-11, led the Steelers with eight touchdowns and 942 yards receiving last season, on 52 catches. His 18.1 yards per catch were higher than any of the top 50 receivers in the NFL. Ward led them with 71 receptions despite playing much of the season with a sprained knee and caught seven touchdown passes. Nate Washington, who stands 6-1, was third with 29 catches.

"I don't buy into height,'' said Ward, one of four finalists for the NFL Walter Payton Man of the Year award that will be chosen next week. "Look at my red-zone touchdowns -- I have as many as anyone in the league.''

Since 2002, Ward is tied for second in the league in percentage of touchdowns in the red zone, described by the NFL as inside the 20. Moss is first with 36 percent and Ward, Harrison and Terrell Owens are tied with 33 percent.

That's why Roethlisberger's appeal for a tall receiver to help in the red zone hurt Ward, who holds most Steelers receiving records to go along with his four Pro Bowl appearances and a Super Bowl MVP award.

"In the red zone, it's nice to have a guy like that,'' Roethlisberger said of wanting a taller receiver. "Obviously, we have a guy like Nate who can jump out of this world, he can jump so high. It's nice to have that.

"But to have a big guy who can create mismatches -- the same thing happened when Plax was here. So much presence went to Plax's side just because he's a big, good receiver, that Hines was always open or Antwaan [Randle El]. I just think it would open stuff up for us a lot more."

Said Ward, "I don't buy into the hype you have to be tall.

"You throw the ball up and give somebody a chance to make a play, I'll make as many catches as anyone.

The Steelers do have two tall receivers in 6-5 Heath Miller and 6-7 Matt Spaeth, both tight ends.

"If Ben wants a tall receiver to make him feel comfortable or whatever, maybe the organization will get him one,'' Ward said.

"To me, I like the four guys we have. This is Ben's first year with [coordinator] Bruce Arians, and he had a tremendous year, a Pro Bowl year. I think he's coming into his own. We have weapons, let's gel together a couple more years and let's see what happens.

"If they go and get a tall receiver in the first round, someone's got to lose a job. Now we had all these weapons around us, now what are we going to do?

"I was here with me, Plax and Antwaan; we had three deadly weapons. Did that win us a Super Bowl? No, the year we won the Super Bowl we had me, Antwaan and Cedrick Wilson. If there's a formula for bringing a tall guy in to win, I don't buy that."

He also did not buy Roethlisberger's opinion that because the 6-5 quarterback was throwing down to his smaller receivers, they got "killed" on occasion reaching up for passes. Roethlisberger said he'd like to throw to someone tall who is on his plane.

"A lot of that has to do with technique,'' Ward said. "If he wants to say it's height or whatever or he didn't see me -- I've caught 719 balls. I don't think me being short had anything to do with catching those balls.

"That's his opinion. Even with Plax and Kordell [Stewart], I would be wide open in the red zone, but people get enamored of tall receivers -- 'I have to throw it to him, throw it to him.' Tom Brady looks at coverage. Me, I'd take a guy who will scratch and claw and do anything to get the ball rather than go with height."

Ward had surgery on his right knee Jan. 9 to repair a torn meniscus and said he will be good as new in about four weeks. He said the MCL and PCL in his right knee were torn Sept. 23 against San Francisco, causing him to miss two games. The meniscus was torn at St. Louis Dec. 20. He missed the season finale in Baltimore, then had his most productive playoff game with 135 yards on 10 catches in a loss to Jacksonville.

"I played all year on that one knee," Ward said. "As time went on, the knee got worse because I never let it rest ... That's why I didn't practice on Wednesdays and Thursdays, we were trying to let the PCL heal."

Ward said he talked to coach Mike Tomlin and his trainers about the option of surgery during the season vs. the risk of playing and making the knee worse. He preferred to play.

He said he'd like to play another three or four years and noted that at age 32 come March, he's only one year older than Burress, who turns 31 this year, and Moss; the same age as Torry Holt, and younger than Owens (34), Harrison (35) and Isaac Bruce (35).

"I have three, four good years left, I would like to think,'' Ward said.

"All these other guys are playing 12, 13 years and still going strong. Why can they go strong and 'Hines Ward will be the one to fall off.' I never could fathom that.

"There will always be question marks around me because I'm not the prototypical guy, not flashy. But I've shown you what I can do when they pass the ball."

"I was here with me, Plax and Antwaan; we had three deadly weapons. Did that win us a Super Bowl? No, the year we won the Super Bowl we had me, Antwaan and Cedrick Wilson. If there's a formula for bringing a tall guy in to win, I don't buy that."

Ed Bouchette can be reached at ebouchette@post-gazette.com.

JD10367
01-25-2008, 10:57 AM
Did he make Hines cry? :crying:

Fully Tilted
01-25-2008, 10:58 AM
Where's SF87 with his fire-extinguisher to downplay this?

Umfold
01-25-2008, 10:59 AM
Tall WRs are the joke of the NFL in my opinion. Players like Moss, and yes, Plex are rare

Meanwhile Brady and Manning dominated the first part of this decade throwing to the likes of Harrison, Troy Brown and Branch. And this year Wes Welker led the NFL in catches

Now after what Moss did this year the demand for tall wide outs will go up even more

pfft. give me a break ref

Just silly

EasyGlumFella
01-25-2008, 11:05 AM
Amazing. So Roethlisberger wants to blame the Steelers playoff flops on his receivers, not the bad interceptions he throws. Priceless. Hines Ward is the best thing that team has. Ben is an idiot.

mikiemo83
01-25-2008, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by Umfold on 01-25-2008 at 10:59 AM
Tall WRs are the joke of the NFL in my opinion. Players like Moss, and yes, Plex are rare

Meanwhile Brady and Manning dominated the first part of this decade throwing to the likes of Harrison, Troy Brown and Branch. And this year Wes Welker led the NFL in catches

Now after what Moss did this year the demand for tall wide outs will go up even more

pfft. give me a break ref

Just silly good let the demand go up so teh better quality ones drop in the draft or take less money to play

Hell steve Smith should stay in Carolina because no one else wants him

JD10367
01-25-2008, 11:12 AM
Height does not make a receiver great. Nor does speed (see Tony Simmons and Bethel Johnson). They're just but two attributes, along with "Quickness" (different from speed), "Route-Running", "Vertical Leap", "Intelligence" (can they recognize a D and alter their route), "Hands", etc.,.

The QB throwing the ball also matters.

Whether there are other viable targets also matter.

Moss is a rare combination. He's tall, he has great hands, he has great vertical leap, he can adjust in midair, he's a great route-runner, he has a great 'football mind', etc.,. It's not like he's only doing great here 'cause he's tall.

Captain Morgan
01-25-2008, 11:12 AM
I forgort the
Link (http://post-gazette.com/pg/08025/852112-66.stm)

BY1401
01-25-2008, 11:23 AM
Inspector Gadget would make an awesome wide receiver.

Or maybe this kid when he grows up:

http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/8114/arms4vw.jpg

Claremonster
01-25-2008, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by GFY1401 on 01-25-2008 at 08:23 AM
Inspector Gadget would make an awesome wide receiver.

Or maybe this kid when he grows up:

http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/8114/arms4vw.jpg


That looks like mine and my cousin's kid.

Spentcartridge
01-25-2008, 11:45 AM
Big Ben would do better keeping thoughts like this to himself. Just ride your bike Big Ben....right into a tree or parked car. :)
Then Ward could argue about getting a QB that isn't quite so tall, but has a more accurate arm. :)

grog
01-25-2008, 11:48 AM
Ben must be trying to compensate for something.

Ras
01-25-2008, 11:49 AM
It's nice to see teammates complimenting one another during the offseason. I wonder if Ben was reading Peyton's book - "How to Deal With Weammates and Come Off Looking Like a Douche."

Moebius
01-25-2008, 12:06 PM
*sits back and waits for SF87's ever impressive take on the situation*

Cletusaurus
01-25-2008, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by EasyBigFella* on 01-25-2008 at 08:05 AM
Amazing. So Roethlisberger wants to blame the Steelers playoff flops on his receivers, not the bad interceptions he throws.

But he wouldn't have thrown those bad picks if his receivers were taller...

Patriots4ever
01-25-2008, 12:28 PM
You'd think Big Ben would want on OL before a tall WR. He was sacked and hit a ton this season. Plus, they may lose Faneca to free agency. Tall WR? Good luck. They won a SB without one of those in 2005, but ok, whatever you say.

I'll say it again, their #1 need right now is help on the OL.

3 Point Stan
01-25-2008, 12:29 PM
My rendition of Hines and Ben hashing this out:

http://www.rivalfish.com/rivalroom/uploaded_images/eddie_eggnog2-755772.jpg
Hines Ward: Why would you say that about me, Ben?

Big Ben: You know that metal plate in my head? I had to have it replaced, because everytime anyone revved up the microwave, I'd piss my pants and talk shit about my teammates for about a half-hour or so. So, over at the VA, they had to replace it with a plastic one. It ain't as strong. So, I'll occasionally I'll have a relapose because I got nothing between a defensive lineman and my brain but a piece of government plastic.

Hines Ward: "You really think it matters, Ben?"

Big Ben: Well, see the plate runs right underneath the part here. See, over here, nothing. But, here if this gets dented, then my hair just ain't going to look right.

Spentcartridge
01-25-2008, 12:33 PM
Big Ben: Well, see the plate runs right underneath the part here. See, over here, nothing. But, here if this gets dented, then my pubic hair just ain't going to look right.

Threadkiller
01-25-2008, 12:33 PM
What a crock of shit. Roehtosilsishbhhvhbsgers mechanics looked so awful in the Jax game. It was a miracle they were as close as they were. Lesson 1: Shut yer pie hole. The media are swimming around like pirhannas waiting for a brain damaged numb-nut to say something ever-so-slightly slightly controversial. It's what they do for a living.

Spentcartridge
01-25-2008, 12:39 PM
Ward: Did they shave ya before sticking that plate into you?

Ben: They sure did! Cowher donated some bone from his jaw. Doc seemed to think it might improve my common sense.

Ward: Well did it improve?

Ben: not really. Things would have been different if I'd been cured of all my STDs first. At least that's what I like to think.

Umfold
01-25-2008, 12:41 PM
Originally posted by *mikiemo83 on 01-25-2008 at 11:09 AM
good let the demand go up so teh better quality ones drop in the draft or take less money to play
It's not even a joke though, is it? That's exactly what happens



Take a look at the 10 WRs who were drafted ahead of Deion Branch in 2002:

(stats are per game average X 16 games)

...............................Rec/Yds/Tds

Dante...............6'1".....53 803 6
Ashley Lelie......6'3"......35 605 2
Javon Walker....6'3"......56 848 7
Gaffney.............6'1"....38 458 2
Josh Reed........5'10”.....42 488 1
Tim Carter.........6'0”.....19 251 1
Andre Davis.......6'1”.....29 451 4
Reche................6'0”....34 418 2
Randle El..........5'10”.....42 520 2
Antonio Bryant.. 6'2”......51 797 4
Deion Branch.....5'9”......64 846 4


Remember Deion's first game? First game at the Razor against Pit, right? I just remember thinking “Oh, so this Branch kid is like Troy Brown, only 10 years younger and actually faster than Troy ever was.”

But he wasn't drafted until the last pick of the 2nd round. Why? Because he was 5'9”.

There's no doubt in my mind that's the only reason. Because the scouts who saw him before the draft saw the agility that we all saw on that Monday night against Pit. They just didn't want him because everyone wants a tall WRs these days.


Unless you are willing to carry a tall guy just for goal line situations forget it. Most of them simply lack the agility to get open.
Ask the 03 Panthers or the 04 Eagles if they'd rather cover Branch or some 6'5” stiff who can put up good times on a track?

dropKickMurphy
01-25-2008, 01:31 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. Roethlesberger doesn't want a tall WR to replace Ward, he wants one to complement him.

I makes perfect sense to me. There are certain advantages that a tall receiver has, and certain advantages that a smaller, quicker receiver has.

You wouldn't want 5 centers on your basketball team; and you wouldn't want 5 point guards. Each scenario would creare mismatches that the opposition could easily exploit.

Same thing with a WR corps. I mean, Ben knows what it was like when he had both Burris and Ward as targets. I'm sure there were different situations and matchups that favored each. Without a Moss/TO/Burris type of receiver, the passing game has fewer options.

We saw both Welker and Moss have career years. Of course, Brady had a lot to do with that. But don't overlook the fact that it is very, very difficult for a defense to try to stop 2 receivers as talented...and as different as Moss and Welker. The things you do to try to contain Moss will create chances for Welker; and vice versa.

Reading Roethleburger's comments again, I think Ward is being way to sensitive here. He said nothing remotely negative about Ward. He was making the point that a tall receiver like Burris obviously draws coverage in the end zone...which only opens more opportunities for Ward.

I've always respected Hines Ward. But in this particular exchange he comes across as a guy who's more worried about his ego than what's best for the team.

Claremonster
01-25-2008, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by dropKickMurphy on 01-25-2008 at 10:31 AM
I don't see what the big deal is. Roethlesberger doesn't want a tall WR to replace Ward, he wants one to complement him.

I makes perfect sense to me. There are certain advantages that a tall receiver has, and certain advantages that a smaller, quicker receiver has.

You wouldn't want 5 centers on your basketball team; and you wouldn't want 5 point guards. Each scenario would creare mismatches that the opposition could easily exploit.

Same thing with a WR corps. I mean, Ben knows what it was like when he had both Burris and Ward as targets. I'm sure there were different situations and matchups that favored each. Without a Moss/TO/Burris type of receiver, the passing game has fewer options.

We saw both Welker and Moss have career years. Of course, Brady had a lot to do with that. But don't overlook the fact that it is very, very difficult for a defense to try to stop 2 receivers as talented...and as different as Moss and Welker. The things you do to try to contain Moss will create chances for Welker; and vice versa.

Reading Roethleburger's comments again, I think Ward is being way to sensitive here. He said nothing remotely negative about Ward. He was making the point that a tall receiver like Burris obviously draws coverage in the end zone...which only opens more opportunities for Ward.

I've always respected Hines Ward. But in this particular exchange he comes across as a guy who's more worried about his ego than what's best for the team.


Well, either way, we get to poke fun at the Steelers, and annoy the hell out of SF87. So stop being a wet blanket ;)

Fully Tilted
01-25-2008, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Claremonster on 01-25-2008 at 01:43 PM
Well, either way, we get to poke fun at the Steelers, and annoy the hell out of SF87. So stop being a wet blanket ;)

That's ok. We still have Hines Ward's comments in our holster. Can't really defend him for that.

Dwight Schrute
01-25-2008, 03:51 PM
...anyone (sniff-sniff)...have any (sniff)...Kleenex?


BBWWAAAAAAHHHHHH!!!!! (sniff...sniff)

mikiemo83
01-25-2008, 03:54 PM
Ward blindsided just like a Ravens LB

should have used that as a headline

SteelerFan87
01-25-2008, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by dropKickMurphy on 01-25-2008 at 01:31 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. Roethlesberger doesn't want a tall WR to replace Ward, he wants one to complement him.

I makes perfect sense to me. There are certain advantages that a tall receiver has, and certain advantages that a smaller, quicker receiver has.

You wouldn't want 5 centers on your basketball team; and you wouldn't want 5 point guards. Each scenario would creare mismatches that the opposition could easily exploit.

Same thing with a WR corps. I mean, Ben knows what it was like when he had both Burris and Ward as targets. I'm sure there were different situations and matchups that favored each. Without a Moss/TO/Burris type of receiver, the passing game has fewer options.

We saw both Welker and Moss have career years. Of course, Brady had a lot to do with that. But don't overlook the fact that it is very, very difficult for a defense to try to stop 2 receivers as talented...and as different as Moss and Welker. The things you do to try to contain Moss will create chances for Welker; and vice versa.

Reading Roethleburger's comments again, I think Ward is being way to sensitive here. He said nothing remotely negative about Ward. He was making the point that a tall receiver like Burris obviously draws coverage in the end zone...which only opens more opportunities for Ward.

I've always respected Hines Ward. But in this particular exchange he comes across as a guy who's more worried about his ego than what's best for the team.

Exactly. This is a huge topic amongst Steeler fans. Some people say "yeah, we need a tall WR", others say "that's stupid. Don't just get a guy because he's tall!"
I agree. You can't just get a guy because he's tall, but if there's a tall WR that's available that has alot of talent, by all means go for him! They're very rare, but it would be great to have a guy like that. So I understand where Ben's coming from. (BTW, he also wants the Steelers to resign Faneca. Ben is a little greedy, lol)

As for Ward, yeah he's taking this the wrong way. But then, Ward has always been sensitive about his height. He fell in the draft, because people said "oh, he's not tall enough." "He's not fast enough." "he can't jump high enough." "He doesn't have the measurables." Hines has had to deal with people telling him what he can't do for his whole career. He was drafted by the Steelers in (I think) 98. The following year they took Troy Edwards in the 1st round, and then the year after that, they took Plax in the 1st round. Hines saw that and was like, "wtf? Dude, you guys have a good WR already! Let me play!" (it took us a while to realize Ward was so good, so we had to struggle through Courtney Hawkins, Wil Blackwell, and then the bust Troy Edwards turned out to be) So he's always been sensitive about people saying he's not tall enough, or bringing in guys to take his job.

Jaric
01-25-2008, 04:40 PM
He should have asked for a tall, and more importantly adept at blocking, offensive line.

RichM99
01-25-2008, 09:46 PM
The best part of this article is that Ward actually knows exactly how many career catches he has. I'd bet none of the Pats know their current career catch numbers, and most probably don't know how many they caught this year (maybe except Welker who set a team record).

patfan64
01-25-2008, 10:10 PM
Originally posted by GFY1401 on 01-25-2008 at 11:23 AM
Inspector Gadget would make an awesome wide receiver.

Or maybe this kid when he grows up:

http://img345.imageshack.us/img345/8114/arms4vw.jpg

Dude, that's just sick.

I wonder if there would be a rule against this guy playing in the NFL.

Wandering Athol
01-25-2008, 10:27 PM
I can't figure out what's worse: an immature QB lobbying his front office through the media, OR a hyper-sensitive WR wailing over his insecurities? :shrug:

The team should rename itself the Pittsburgh Tools.

HSanders
01-25-2008, 11:17 PM
Reading another article about it I saw more of what Ben said and I think I get why Hines was so pissed.


"I'm 6-5," Roethlisberger noted. "I throw down to a lot of these guys. You see so many times Hines reaching up and I'm getting him killed because he's reaching up for balls and I'm just throwing it on my plane. To have someone on the same plane as me would just make my job ... I wouldn't get Hines killed going across the middle all the time."


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08016/849486-66.stm

Makes it sound like he was JUUUUSSSTTT about to finish this sentence with "easier" and instead he threw that last bit in about it's being better for Hines.

Box_O_Rocks
01-26-2008, 01:06 AM
Toothless is to football as SF87 is to Patriots Planet, comic relief.

Claremonster
01-26-2008, 02:06 AM
Originally posted by HSanders on 01-25-2008 at 08:17 PM
Reading another article about it I saw more of what Ben said and I think I get why Hines was so pissed.



http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08016/849486-66.stm

Makes it sound like he was JUUUUSSSTTT about to finish this sentence with "easier" and instead he threw that last bit in about it's being better for Hines.


Heinz is probably sitting in a car across the street from Ben's house right now, waiting for him to take his motorcycle out for a spin...

pats-blue
01-26-2008, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by HSanders on 01-26-2008 at 02:17 AM
Reading another article about it I saw more of what Ben said and I think I get why Hines was so pissed.



http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08016/849486-66.stm

Makes it sound like he was JUUUUSSSTTT about to finish this sentence with "easier" and instead he threw that last bit in about it's being better for Hines.

I completely thought you made that quote up it was so stupid (for idiot boy to say....but would have been funny if it was made up by a poster)

So This idiot is saying he throws the ball 5 INCHES too high because his "plane" is 6'5" not 6' like Wards??? That is the all time STUPIDEST thing I think I have heard. That is besides not finishing and obvious dig on his previous ramblings.

Add Plax to the equation with him basically backhanding Eli with his comments how the Pats receivers have "Brady throwing to them" there must be something other than flouride in the water in Pitts

Harrison37
01-26-2008, 05:32 AM
Give me a C...give me an H...give me an O...give me a D...give me an E...What's that spell?

Big Ben!!! :D

SamBam39
01-26-2008, 08:03 AM
Can we move this to the WGAS channel? ;)

SamBam39
01-26-2008, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by Harrison37 on 01-26-2008 at 05:32 AM
Give me a C...give me an H...give me an O...give me a D...give me an E...What's that spell?

Big Ben!!! :D What exactly is a CHODE?:confused: :p

SteelerFan87
01-26-2008, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by RichM99 on 01-25-2008 at 09:46 PM
The best part of this article is that Ward actually knows exactly how many career catches he has. I'd bet none of the Pats know their current career catch numbers, and most probably don't know how many they caught this year (maybe except Welker who set a team record).

Well, Hines broke like 3 Steelers recieving records this year. Catches was probably one of them.

Dwight Schrute
01-26-2008, 01:42 PM
...and tears!!

Can someone just give Hines a big fat hug?!?!?

bishbash
01-26-2008, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Wandering Athol on 01-25-2008 at 10:27 PM
The team should rename itself the Pittsburgh Tools.
:bump::terrible::bump: