Pats draft insider info or a clever con? You be the judge.

[Hawg73]

I have been reading stuff from this guy for a week or two now and while I have no idea where he gets his info, the level of detail and believability is there. What do you guys think?

Check the link:

http://pub20.ezboard.com/fboomersdraftfrm1.showMessage?topicID=967.topic

:confused:

Originally posted by Hawg73
I have been reading stuff from this guy for a week or two now and while I have no idea where he gets his info, the level of detail and believability is there. What do you guys think? :confused:

Hmmm. Put me down as rather skeptical. Something about his tone and information doesn’t ring true. I am inclined to question free agent rumors in January.

I did some checking and there apparently is some question as to whether the Bears can afford to re-sign Colvin who is asking for somewhere around $20 million. The first question to ask is can the Pats afford that? There is no doubt that he would help with the pass rush.

I agree with Alice about Moe. We need a solution to the RB situation but I would rather see them re-sign Faulk and address the RB position in the draft. Williams strikes me as a guy who is not a complete bust but certainly not a game breaker. Sound familiar?

What the Pats need is another short receiver -- to make the others look taller. A return specialist perhaps but there are greater needs.

He suggests that they will bring in a 6'-7, 284 pound guard and convert him to left tackle? The Pats have a center that has trouble with snapping and a left tackle also better suited to playing guard so logically the solution is to bring in a guard and move him to a position that he hasn’t demonstrated he can play in college? Perfect irony. Pioli should hire this guy while he’s at it. The solution is to draft or sign a left tackle or a center. What scares me about the information is that it is just CHEAP enough to be the sort of thing that the Pats would do.

He goes on to say that they will reach for Arkansas State’s Garry Johnson by moving up into the second round when he grades as a third or fourth rounder? I haven’t checked on Johnson, but as a general question why would you do that? (They DID it with Deion Branch – and I am not saying that Branch will not work out but that they could have traded DOWN to take him a round later than they did, saved themselves some money and the extra pick they got would have enabled them to avoid trading UP to get Davey.)

The only thing that reaching guarantees is that you don't look clever. If the guy works out, you paid more money than you needed to and wasted a high pick. If he doesn’t then you really look stupid. There are very few indispensable players taken beyond the first ten picks and the ones that are were never figured to be. It just doesn't pay to continually sacrifice mid-level picks for anyone.

I wouldn’t get too excited one way or another to be honest with you. Sounds like if this guy is right the Pats are planning to make some questionable moves in the draft. What makes me think this is fiction is that I find myself saying “who would be dumb enough to do that?” What makes me worried that he could be right is that I think I know the answer.

[spinaltap]

Granted, the offensive line had it's share of problems this year. However it is clearly the other side of the line that was completely inept. Besides Seymour, who the hell made plays on our line? For that matter, who the hell did the pats stuff on the ground? The problems in the secondary are only magnified when a QB has all day to sit back and pick out his receivers. This was obvious in the Jet game on Sunday night. Yes Myers looked like crap in that game, but he also had to stay in coverage way too long on every pass play. It all starts on the line, as any football fan knows. I think the problems are greatest on the D-line rather than O-line. I will be very very very disappointed if the patriots draft a LT with their first pick. Remember, that pick is essentially what the patriots traded bledsoe for. Whoever they do take will have a lot to live up to. I'm not saying they will have to be a Pro-bowler every year. But if that player turns out to be a bust......off with their heads!

[pookie]

Originally posted by Hawg73
I have been reading stuff from this guy for a week or two now and while I have no idea where he gets his info, the level of detail and believability is there. What do you guys think?

Check the link:

http://pub20.ezboard.com/fboomersdraftfrm1.showMessage?topicID=967.topic

:confused:

Who is this guy Hawg? I tend to agree with NR and Alice, particularly on Moe Williams. Although he scored a bunch of TD's this season, he's probably not what the Pats need at RB...too Antowainish. I do, however love the sound of Colvin rushing the QB in Blue and Silver. Anyway, where do you think this guy get his "information"?

[Hawg73]

Originally posted by pookie
Who is this guy Hawg? I tend to agree with NR and Alice, particularly on Moe Williams. Although he scored a bunch of TD's this season, he's probably not what the Pats need at RB...too Antowainish. I do, however love the sound of Colvin rushing the QB in Blue and Silver. Anyway, where do you think this guy get his "information"?

I have nary a clue. Freak from KFFL questioned him and his answers were somewhat cryptic. First he denied any inside sources and then later came out with this info.

I'm not calling the guy a liar but if he is pulling our leg at least does it in a convincing style. Personally, I beleive the entire draft to be a cloak and dagger affair with many blind alleys and misdirections, so it is unlikely that given all the money they spend on scouting, somebody like Pioli would rave about a guy like Garry Johnson the "our Orlando Brown" guy in earshot of anyone that could broadcast it for free and maybe cause other personnel guys to take a look at him.

I remember a few years ago that the Tuna was supposedly bragging about some sleeper at OT that would start "for ten years" to Packers GM Ron Wolf who was a personal buddy. Wolf ended up grabbing the guy before the Pats took him and I'm pretty sure that he has been their RT for about the last 7 years though I can't think of his name right now. (I just did -Earl Dotson who was a fixture at RT for years and is now a backup battling back injuries)

Supposedly that set off internal fireworks and our personnel guy ended up quitting over it. I'll try to find the details on that story but it is an example of what these guys generally do not do.

Personally, I think that MakingSense is full of it and we won't do any of the things he speculates on. Interesting enough to make it a good read though isn't it?

Originally posted by Hawg73
What do you guys think?


Thanks for posting this Hawg. This guy Rob Rang (Boomer) is interesting. More so to me than MakingSense although he does have an interesting perspective as well. Here's a quote from Rang that I particularly agree with:

"With the Pats recent inexpensive, but practical forays into free agency (grabbing a lot of low money, specialized players), I would think they'd hold tight and get the best available players where they are - even potentially looking to trade down and acquire more picks/depth for all of their positions. "

That board also has a really interesting thread on the LB situation in particular. Hopefully this link will work:

http://pub20.ezboard.com/fboomersdraftfrm1.showMessage?topicID=883.topic

I agree with MakingSense that Freak is way off on his assessment about the type of LB's that Belichick favors. He is assuming that Belichick would like to return to a 3-4 and I see no indication based on the talent that we have that this is possible. I also think that BB would be tempted to go after a guy like Kendrell Bell provided he had the benefit of hindsight. It wasn't as clear a need at the time but now it looks like he would have been a good choice.

That's the problem with going too much on a the basis of needs alone, you end up passing up better talent. I really think the Pats could do worse than simply taking a best player strategy that favors linemen. And they should sit on their picks (or trade down.) The jockeying that they did last year got them nowhere -- as did an unhealthy obsession with the tight end position. When in doubt take the best player available and then wait to see what the next round has to offer.

There are so many needs that I think there is a HUGE danger in trying to be too specific in their choices. This time next year we will be saying "if only" and then we will be looking to draft the position that we passed on this year. The Pats could use in no particular order: DE, DT, CB, WR, LB, RB, OT, and C. Is there any position aside from place kicker that couldn't be improved? Not in my opinion and I think if you are being honest with yourself that has to include TE and QB. Safety -- I think we are set there.

And I will add to that comment about Bell: Pittsburgh -- one of the few teams currently running the 3-4 defense.

[Hawg73]

Originally posted by NoRespect
There are so many needs that I think there is a HUGE danger in trying to be too specific in their choices. This time next year we will be saying "if only" and then we will be looking to draft the position that we passed on this year. The Pats could use in no particular order: DE, DT, CB, WR, LB, RB, OT, and C. Is there any position aside from place kicker that couldn't be improved? Not in my opinion and I think if you are being honest with yourself that has to include TE and QB. Safety -- I think we are set there.

You're welcome. It is too early to tell anything but I think that they will just end up drafting guys they think can play first and won't target specific positions unless their need coincides with the value they place on a specific guy at that position.

Looking at many value boards the guys that will be available in the middle of the first might be an OT like Kwame Brown or Jordan Gross but they are not supposed to be classic LT types.

I hate it when they draft DB's - you can hardly see what they do but you have to have them and there are a ton of good ones coming out.

The DE's are all question marks and most of the top-ranked guys are a little undersized. My first choice would be for a destroyer DT to pair with Seymour and lo and behold Jonathon Sullivan is another Georgia product who is also rated mid first round at this juncture.

I am trying not to get fired up for an instant impact guy like a flashy receiver or a Brian Urlacher type and will just have to trust their judgement. One thing is for sure, there will be a ton of BS flying around between now and draft day. There always is.

Originally posted by Hawg73
I hate it when they draft DB's - you can hardly see what they do but you have to have them and there are a ton of good ones coming out.

My first choice would be for a destroyer DT to pair with Seymour and lo and behold Jonathon Sullivan is another Georgia product who is also rated mid first round at this juncture.

I am trying not to get fired up for an instant impact guy like a flashy receiver or a Brian Urlacher type and will just have to trust their judgment.

I don't think the Pats would solve anything by drafting a WR too early. It has always been a risky proposition anyway. However I think they have to take one if the right player comes available and not get locked into thinking that WR is not as much of a need as say DT or a big offensive lineman.

It is funny that people don't think of defensive tackles as "flashy" but if you have the right one they can just wreak havoc on an offense. Run stopping isn't flashy but it sure beats the alternative. And having a guy who can collapse the pocket makes everybody on the defense look better. I would like to see them field a defense that can get pressure without having to rely so heavily on the blitz.

One problem that has to be addressed is Mcginnest. He accounted for a lot of the pressure that the Pats put on the QB this year and with his cap number he is certainly gone. If they don't keep him they will probably need to find a DE and an LB as well... I think it is a mistake to restructure again. They need a wholesale change in some areas.

I totally agree about the DB's but Belichick loves them. Still they have eleven picks and if they don't get greedy they should have a very productive draft. If they trade down they could end up with 12-13 picks. They should be able to draft 4-5 line prospects and still have considerable flexibility to draft for their other needs.