"blame the locals"

[thomas144]

Arianna Huffington: Memo to the Media: Stop Enabling the White House Blame Game

Arianna HuffingtonMon Sep 5, 7:39 PM ET

When it comes to managing political crises (as opposed to national ones), the Bush White House has earned a reputation as masters of damage control. And rightly so -- let’s see you get reelected after Abu Ghraib, the “Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US” memo, no WMD, no bin Laden (dead or alive), and “Mission (Most Definitely Not) Accomplished”.

Well, according to the New York Times, Rove, Bartlett and the damage control boys are at it again, rolling out a plan to hang the post-Katrina debacle around the necks of Louisiana state and local officials… and, in the process, erase the image of a crassly incompetent administration too busy vacationing to worry about the dying in New Orleans.

Hence, today’s Presidential Visit, Take Two. Can’t you just see Rove yelling “Cut!”, hopping out of his director’s chair, pulling Bush aside, and whispering in his ear: “Okay, Mr. President, this isn’t “Armageddon” meets “The Wedding Crashers”. So this time 86 the stories about how you used to party in New Orleans, and, for heaven's sake, do not focus on the suffering of Trent Lott. And no more hugging only freshly-showered black people who look like Halle Berry -- this time you gotta get a little closer to the living-in-their-own-feces crowd. Alright…. action!”

Look, as much as I despise the way they go about it, I get it: trying to save face by deflecting blame and sliming your enemies may be ugly but it’s straight out of the Rove playbook and has proven highly effective.

What I don’t understand is why the media continue to be star players on the Bush damage control team.

Take the way that both the Washington Post and Newsweek obediently, and ineptly, passed on -- and thus gave credence to -- the Bush party line that Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco’s hesitancy to declare a state of emergency had prevented the feds from responding to the crisis more rapidly.

The Post, citing an anonymous “senior Bush official”, reported on Sunday that, as of Saturday, Sept. 3, Blanco “still had not declared a state of emergency”… when, in fact, the declaration had been made on Friday, August 26 -- over 2 days BEFORE Katrina made landfall in Louisiana. This claim was so demonstrably false that the paper was forced to issue a correction just hours after the original story appeared.

So here are a couple of questions: 1) Had everyone in the WaPo fact checking department gone out of town for the Labor Day weekend? I mean, c’mon, the announcement of a state of emergency isn’t exactly the kind of thing government officials tend to keep a secret. 2) Why were the Post reporters so willing to blindly accept the words of an administration official who obviously had a partisan agenda -- and to grant this official anonymity?

Weren’t they familiar with the Post’s policy on using anonymous sources, which states: “Sources often insist that we agree not to name them in the newspaper before they agree to talk with us. We must be reluctant to grant their wish. When we use an unnamed source, we are asking our readers to take an extra step to trust the credibility of the information we are providing. We must be certain in our own minds that the benefit to readers is worth the cost in credibility. …Nevertheless, granting anonymity to a source should not be done casually or automatically.” Here it was clearly done both casually and automatically.

The Post’s policy continues: “We prefer at least two sources for factual information in Post stories that depends on confidential informants, and those sources should be independent of each other.” Oops. They could have saved themselves a lot of grief if the second source they never got for this story had been a staffer for Gov. Blanco… or, if the price of a phone call was too much, the state of Louisiana website where the truth about the state of emergency declaration was a click away [pdf].

Especially since the Post instructs its reporters: “When sources have axes to grind, we should let our readers know what their interest is” and “We do not promise sources that we will refrain from additional reporting or efforts to verify the information they may give us”. You mean like checking to see if the line of bull they are feeding you is, y’know, a line of bull?

If anything, Newsweek’s effort to assist the Bush damage control effort was even more egregious. While claiming that “Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Barbineaux Blanco seemed uncertain and sluggish, hesitant to declare martial law or a state of emergency, which would have opened the door to more Pentagon help” the magazine didn’t even bother to cite a “senior Bush official”, choosing instead to report Blanco’s alleged failings as fact. Wonder where they got that “fact”? You think it might have been from the same “senior Bush official” that snookered the Post? Josh Marshall wonders…

The unquestioning regurgitation of administration spin through the use of anonymous sources is the fault line of modern American journalism. You’d think that after all we’ve seen -- from the horrific reporting on WMD to Judy Miller and Plamegate (to say nothing of all the endless navel-gazing media panel discussions analyzing the issue) -- these guys would finally get a clue and stop making the Journalism 101 mistake of granting anonymity to administration sources using them to smear their opponents.

The Washington Post corrected its article. Now it should take the next step and reveal who the source of that provably false chunk of slime was. And Newsweek should do the same.

It’s time for the media to get back to doing their job and stop being the principal weapon in Team Bush’s damage control arsenal.

[dchester]

Originally posted by thomas144
The Washington Post corrected its article. Now it should take the next step and reveal who the source of that provably false chunk of slime was. And Newsweek should do the same.

It?s time for the media to get back to doing their job and stop being the principal weapon in Team Bush?s damage control arsenal. I just hate how conservative publications like the Washington Post and Newsweek are always taking the Bush Administration's side.

:blink:
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[O_P_T]

Well if you want to quote Arianna Huffington, then I feel free to respond with the WSJ (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219).

Blame Amid the Tragedy
Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin failed their constituents.

BY BOB WILLIAMS
Wednesday, September 7, 2005 12:01 a.m. EDT

As the devastation of Hurricane Katrina continues to shock and sadden the nation, the question on many lips is, Who is to blame for the inadequate response?

As a former state legislator who represented the legislative district most impacted by the eruption of Mount St. Helens in 1980, I can fully understand and empathize with the people and public officials over the loss of life and property.

Many in the media are turning their eyes toward the federal government, rather than considering the culpability of city and state officials. I am fully aware of the challenges of having a quick and responsive emergency response to a major disaster. And there is definitely a time for accountability; but what isn't fair is to dump on the federal officials and avoid those most responsible--local and state officials who failed to do their job as the first responders. The plain fact is, lives were needlessly lost in New Orleans due to the failure of Louisiana's governor, Kathleen Blanco, and the city's mayor, Ray Nagin.

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected.
The New Orleans contingency plan is still, as of this writing, on the city's Web site, and states: "The safe evacuation of threatened populations is one of the principle [sic] reasons for developing a Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan." But the plan was apparently ignored.

Mayor Nagin was responsible for giving the order for mandatory evacuation and supervising the actual evacuation: His Office of Emergency Preparedness (not the federal government) must coordinate with the state on elements of evacuation and assist in directing the transportation of evacuees to staging areas. Mayor Nagin had to be encouraged by the governor to contact the National Hurricane Center before he finally, belatedly, issued the order for mandatory evacuation. And sadly, it apparently took a personal call from the president to urge the governor to order the mandatory evacuation.

The city's evacuation plan states: "The city of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas." But even though the city has enough school and transit buses to evacuate 12,000 citizens per fleet run, the mayor did not use them. To compound the problem, the buses were not moved to high ground and were flooded. The plan also states that "special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific lifesaving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed." This was not done.

The evacuation plan warned that "if an evacuation order is issued without the mechanisms needed to disseminate the information to the affected persons, then we face the possibility of having large numbers of people either stranded and left to the mercy of a storm, or left in an area impacted by toxic materials." That is precisely what happened because of the mayor's failure.

Instead of evacuating the people, the mayor ordered the refugees to the Superdome and Convention Center without adequate security and no provisions for food, water and sanitary conditions. As a result people died, and there was even rape committed, in these facilities. Mayor Nagin failed in his responsibility to provide public safety and to manage the orderly evacuation of the citizens of New Orleans. Now he wants to blame Gov. Blanco and the Federal Emergency Management Agency. In an emergency the first requirement is for the city's emergency center to be linked to the state emergency operations center. This was not done.

The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor. President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Gov. Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for specific aid.
In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Gov. Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in constant contact with Mayor Nagin and FEMA. It is likely that thousands of people died because of the failure of Gov. Blanco to implement the state plan, which mentions the possible need to evacuate up to one million people. The plan clearly gives the governor the authority for declaring an emergency, sending in state resources to the disaster area and requesting necessary federal assistance.

State legislators and governors nationwide need to update their contingency plans and the operation procedures for state emergency centers. Hurricane Katrina had been forecast for days, but that will not always be the case with a disaster (think of terrorist attacks). It must be made clear that the governor and locally elected officials are in charge of the "first response."

I am not attempting to excuse some of the delays in FEMA's response. Congress and the president need to take corrective action there, also. However, if citizens expect FEMA to be a first responder to terrorist attacks or other local emergencies (earthquakes, forest fires, volcanoes), they will be disappointed. The federal government's role is to offer aid upon request.

The Louisiana Legislature should conduct an immediate investigation into the failures of state and local officials to implement the written emergency plans. The tragedy is not over, and real leadership in the state and local government are essential in the months to come. More importantly, the hurricane season is still upon us, and local and state officials must stay focused on the jobs for which they were elected--and not on the deadly game of passing the emergency buck.

[thomas144]

Originally posted by O_P_T
Well if you want to quote Arianna Huffington, then I feel free to respond with the WSJ (http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007219).

I'm not sure what your point is but you're just reinforcing one of Ariana's two main arguments, namely that the Bush administration spin machine is trying to get people to "blame the locals" (hence the name of this thread). The fact that the nation's most conservative newspaper would devote editorial space to this story just confirms the strategy.

Her other point was that the mainstream media is too willing to disseminate this spin without doing the simplest fact checking. The WSJ column doesn't mention when the Governor issued a state of emergency (the fact that went unchecked), but merely states that "She failed to send a timely request for specific aid." without making any specific claim about what she did or didn't do.

[O_P_T]

Originally posted by thomas144
I'm not sure what your point is but you're just reinforcing one of Ariana's two main arguments, namely that the Bush administration spin machine is trying to get people to "blame the locals"

OK, simple question.

If one is to asses blame, is there any aspect of the NO disaster that is the fault of the mayor or Governor of Louisiana?

Yes or no.

[jim_vh]

Originally posted by O_P_T
OK, simple question.

If one is to asses blame, is there any aspect of the NO disaster that is the fault of the mayor or Governor of Louisiana?

Yes or no.

OPT, the President is responsible to all the US, not just those in LA or NO. He has a huge agency created to respond to emergencies and it did a crummy job. The response time after Katrina was unacceptable, and FEMA looks to have been filled up wiht political hacks rather than competent professionals.

He has to answer for that. Once the hurricane was over the mayor and governor were out of the picture. They had declared the emergency, they had ordered the evacuations, and all their assets to deal with disaster had been blown away or flooded.

This is about competence in life-critical situations and Bush's administration failed in this. Why can't they face reality, admit it, and start working on solutions?

[Flagg the Wanderer]

Originally posted by jim_vh
OPT, the President is responsible to all the US, not just those in LA or NO. He has a huge agency created to respond to emergencies and it did a crummy job. The response time after Katrina was unacceptable, and FEMA looks to have been filled up wiht political hacks rather than competent professionals.

He has to answer for that. Once the hurricane was over the mayor and governor were out of the picture. They had declared the emergency, they had ordered the evacuations, and all their assets to deal with disaster had been blown away or flooded.

This is about competence in life-critical situations and Bush's administration failed in this. Why can't they face reality, admit it, and start working on solutions? You're partially right. FEMA's performance was unacceptable.

But we need to bear in mind that they had tried to begin earlier, and the Governor twice interpreted it as a turf war and told them to stick it.

FEMA is definately shouldering a lot of blame here. And the fact that it seems to have been filled with pols is unforgivable. But the bulk of the blame has to go to the state and local governments for failing to work on a real evacuation, or any strategies once the levee broke. Not to mention making it a fed/state turf war and not accepting aid when it was offered.

[O_P_T]

Originally posted by jim_vh
OPT, the President is responsible to all the US, not just those in LA or NO. He has a huge agency created to respond to emergencies and it did a crummy job.

What about the mayor of NO?

What about the horrible job he did prior to the storm?

He didn't use the school buses to evacuate the people who didn't have any oither way to get out of the city.

He declared a mandatory evacuation with less than 24 hrs before the storm.

He didn't prepostion supplies and police at the Superdome and convention center which lead to thos places becoming as horrible as they were.

How is that GWB's fault?

Why doesn't the mayor deserve some of the blame?

[jim_vh]

Originally posted by O_P_T
What about the mayor of NO?

What about the horrible job he did prior to the storm?

He didn't use the school buses to evacuate the people who didn't have any oither way to get out of the city.

He declared a mandatory evacuation with less than 24 hrs before the storm.

He didn't prepostion supplies and police at the Superdome and convention center which lead to thos places becoming as horrible as they were.

How is that GWB's fault?

Why doesn't the mayor deserve some of the blame?

OPT, the mayor is not elected nationally. The national concern is about the response of the DHS. THis is a huge agency with a huge budget that is supposed to be our national first responder to natural disasters and terrorist attacks.

When Bush was elected, the three most likely events were named as a terrorist attack in the US, which happened, a hurricane hitting NO, which happened, and an earthquake in SF which has not happened - yet.

So the concern of all the people of this nation is the slow response of Fema. This was out there for all to see. It is also noticable that the director of FEMA is a political appointment, and that many FEMA appointments were of political hacks who had been involved in the FL recount in 2000, but had no experience in emergency management.

I don't know all the details about the parked busses and whatever but given the track record of the partisan right I don't give them much credence. But EVERYONE in the nation was concerned about the slow response and it is very obvious to everone.

The mayor and governor did what they could at the time. They declared emergencies and got people out as best they could. They did NOT take off to go to fund raisers, like Bush did in the face of a national catastrophe. They did NOT appoint political hacks to a vital position, like Bush did. They did NOT impede relief from getting to NO after the storm, like FEMA did.

About the mayors blame, I don't know what it should be because I don' t have all the facts. But after the storm hit and devastated the state, he was out of the picture. He didn't have resources to work with anymore, and neither did the governor. At that point, it was up to FEMA and they failed to give an adequate response.

[dchester]

Originally posted by jim_vh
OPT, the mayor is not elected nationally. The national concern is about the response of the DHS. THis is a huge agency with a huge budget that is supposed to be our national first responder to natural disasters and terrorist attacks. My understanding is that the local and state recources are supposed to be the first responder, and not FEMA who many people are complaining about (or DHS for that matter).

I don't know all the details about the parked busses and whatever but given the track record of the partisan right I don't give them much credence. But EVERYONE in the nation was concerned about the slow response and it is very obvious to everone. I don't know all the details of them either, but I did see pictures (like I'm guessing you did as well) of hundreds of them of them all lined up, and now useless in water.

The mayor and governor did what they could at the time. That is very much in dispute. While I take you at your word that you believe it, I certainly don't and I don't think most others believe that either.

They did NOT impede relief from getting to NO after the storm, like FEMA did. Believe it or not, this is also in dispute. There have been reports on the news that various organizations (inluding the Red Cross) were told by the LOCAL and STATE officials to stay out of there, in the first few days.

About the mayors blame, I don't know what it should be because I don' t have all the facts. But after the storm hit and devastated the state, he was out of the picture. He didn't have resources to work with anymore, and neither did the governor. At that point, it was up to FEMA and they failed to give an adequate response. I'll agree with you about the mayor (after the storm, but not before). However, the Governor had resources (including the National Guard) that were not qucikly and fully utilized.
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[jim_vh]

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html

who is the state homeland security?


When the BBC noted the criticism of the government's slow response, Lt. Commander Kelly explained that NorthCom was ready to go well in advance of Katrina making landfall, but suggested the president didn't make the right call at the right time.
--------------------------------

"Northcom started planning before the storm even hit. We were ready when it hit Florida, because, as you remember, it hit the bottom part of Florida, and then we were planning once it was pointed towards the Gulf Coast.

"So, what we did, we activated what we call 'defense coordinating officers' to work with the states to say, 'OK, what do you think you will need?' And we set up staging bases that could be started.

"We had the USS Bataan sailing almost behind the hurricane so once the hurricane made landfall, its search and rescue helicopters could be available almost immediately So, we had things ready.

"The only caveat is: we have to wait until the president authorizes us to do so. The laws of the United States say that the military can't just act in this fashion; we have to wait for the president to give us permission."


transcript at http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/5167.html

interview {supposedly, I didn't check} at
http://news.globalfreepress.com/movs/katrina/BBC_Katrina.mpg

Top FEMA Deputies Make Brown Look Qualified
If Bush were to fire FEMA director Mike Brown the agency would be run by the Chief of Staff and the Deputy Chief of Staff. (See the FEMA organizational chart).

The Chief of Staff is a guy named Patrick Rhode. He planned events for President Bush’s campaign. Rhode has no emergency management experience whatsoever. From Rhode’s official bio:

His first position with the Bush Administration was as special assistant to the President and deputy director of National Advance Operations, a position he assumed in January 2001. Previously, Mr. Rhode served as deputy director of National Advance Operations for the George W. Bush Presidential Campaign, in Austin, Texas.

The Deputy Chief of Staff is Scott Morris. He was a press flak for Bush’s presidential campaign. Previously, he worked for the company that produced Bush’s campaign commercials. He also has no emergency management experience. From Morris’s official bio:

Mr. Morris was also the marketing director for the world’s leading provider of e-business applications software in California, and worked for Maverick Media in Austin, Texas as a media strategist for the George W. Bush for President primary campaign and the Bush-Cheney 2000 campaign.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/09/06/fema-deputies/

[jim_vh]

Sen. Trent Lott of Mississippi said: "Something needed to happen. Michael Brown has been acting like a private, instead of a general. When you're in the middle of a disaster, you can't stop to check the legal niceties or to review FEMA regulations before deciding to help Mississippians knocked flat on their backs.''

LINK (http://online.wsj.com/public/article/0,,SB112558354053629071-_S_bQOoFXC04G7cyYosV_f6v6m4_20060902,00.html?mod=b logs)

Five of eight top Federal Emergency Management Agency officials came to their posts with virtually no experience in handling disasters and now lead an agency whose ranks of seasoned crisis managers have thinned dramatically since the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

FEMA's top three leaders -- Director Michael D. Brown, Chief of Staff Patrick J. Rhode and Deputy Chief of Staff Brooks D. Altshuler -- arrived with ties to President Bush's 2000 campaign or to the White House advance operation, according to the agency. Two other senior operational jobs are filled by a former Republican lieutenant governor of Nebraska and a U.S. Chamber of Commerce official who was once a political operative.


LINK (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/08/AR2005090802165.html)

Could you please provide a link to statements that the state didn't send national guardsmen? There have been reports that Britt Hume has been lying thru his teeth to make Bush look good.


In the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort.
LINK (http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/theme_home2.jsp)


LINK (http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf) to Louisianas request for aid.

By the way, do you have criticism to offer for MS's repub governor? Or is that restricted for only LAs demo mayor and governor?

[jim_vh]

Pre-disaster scenarios estimated that 100,000 or more residents would not have the transportation means to escape the city. In the interest of protecting these residents several "refuges of last resort" had been designated in advance, including the Superdome and the New Orleans Convention Center. Beginning at noon on August 28th and running for several hours, some city buses were redeployed to shuttle local residents to the refuges. Several hundred school buses were not deployed due to the City being unable to find drivers.

LINK (http://tinyurl.com/9p85n)


Are these the busses you are talking about? If not please provide a link.

[P Manning Face]

Originally posted by jim_vh
LINK (http://tinyurl.com/9p85n)


Are these the busses you are talking about? If not please provide a link.

http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/buses.asp

[P Manning Face]

Originally posted by jim_vh
The response time after Katrina was unacceptable


Maybe because it took a few days for the aftereffects of the storm to take effect.

The water didn't rise until day three.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?mode=fromshare&Uc=14ewb3ap.b147fdut&Uy=nyvoby&Ux=1

[jim_vh]

Originally posted by P Manning Face
http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/buses.asp

OK, so the famous buses didn't roll because there were no drivers for them according to my earlier reference. Your link says:

Whether this photograph truly represents a lost opportunity to have evacuated a substantial number of New Orleans residents ahead of Hurricane Katrina is difficult to assess. Such a claim presumes an availability of resources (e.g., experienced drivers, fuel) and workable logistics (e.g., sufficient means of notifying and getting residents to departure points, sufficiently clear roads for multiple trips out of town and back, adequate facilities within a reasonable driving distance capable of providing shelter, food, and water to a large number of people for an indeterminate period of time on short notice) that may or may not have been present.

[jim_vh]

Originally posted by P Manning Face
Maybe because it took a few days for the aftereffects of the storm to take effect.

The water didn't rise until day three.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/Slideshow.jsp?mode=fromshare&Uc=14ewb3ap.b147fdut&Uy=nyvoby&Ux=1

So they didn't bother listening to the National Hurricane Center, or the National Weather service the day BEFORE the hurricane even made landfall?

LINK (http://www.thinkprogress.org/katrina-timeline)



4PM CDT – NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE ISSUES SPECIAL HURRICANE WARNING: In the event of a category 4 or 5 hit, “Most of the area will be uninhabitable for weeks, perhaps longer. … At least one-half of well-constructed homes will have roof and wall failure. All gabled roofs will fail, leaving those homes severely damaged or destroyed. … Power outages will last for weeks. … Water shortages will make human suffering incredible by modern standards.”


"BUSH, BROWN, CHERTOFF WARNED OF LEVEE FAILURE BY NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER DIRECTOR: Dr. Max Mayfield, director of the National Hurricane Center: “‘We were briefing them way before landfall. … It’s not like this was a surprise. We had in the advisories that the levee could be topped.’”

Do you think they should ignore a levee breach in a city that is largely below sea level?

- {on the day the Hurricane hit} - LATE MORNING – LEVEE BREACHED: “A large section of the vital 17th Street Canal levee, where it connects to the brand new ‘hurricane proof’ Old Hammond Highway bridge, gave way late Monday morning in Bucktown after Katrina’s fiercest winds were well north.”



LINK (http://www.acadiananow.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050828/NEWS05/50828026)

Forecasters feared Sunday afternoon that storm driven waters will lap over the New Orleans levees when monster Hurricane Katrina pushes past the Crescent City tomorrow.

By late afternoon Sunday, rain bands and gusty winds were flowing across coastal Louisiana near the mouth of the Mississippi River, almost due south of New Orleans and conditions were expected to continue to deteriorate as the powerful storm neared land.

“Coastal storm surge flooding of 18 to 22 feet above normal tide levels, locally as high as 28 feet, along with large and dangerous battering waves can be expected near and to the east of where the center makes landfall,” according to National Hurricane Center forecaster Richard Pasch.

[P Manning Face]

Originally posted by jim_vh
OK, so the famous buses didn't roll because there were no drivers for them according to my earlier reference.


The means of transportation were there. Why weren't there drivers? Think, dammit. Is it your position that the FEDs should have drivers available whereever they may be needed, or maybe, just maybe, the local government could have seen to that detail.

[jim_vh]

It is my position that the school bus drivers probably left town because it was about to get hit by a hurricane, and if the drivers have left town then they are not available as resources to drive buses which is why the buses didn't roll.

I don't think using school buses was part of NO's disaster plan.

It is my position that after the hurricane struck the Federal gov't gave a slow response where in place assets weren't used as linked above.

[sonsofkraftybob]

If the Superdome and Convention Center were evacuation places......why didn't the Mayor stock, water, food and police in there prior to the storm? Why? I don't get it. Food, water and cops.....is that too much to ask from that moron.......

[dchester]

Did anyone happen to be watching ABC last night? Right after the President's speech, they went to a panel of about a dozen people in Houston that had all evacuated from New Orleans (not that it should really matter, but they were all black). It was kind of surprising in that not one of them had anything bad to say about the Bush, but several of them were PO'ed big time at the mayor and governor. One of them admitted that she had a chance to evacuate before the hurricane, but she didn't take the warnings seriously. The ABC moderator there tried to get some of them to say what criticisms they had about Bush, but there were no takers.
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[Mark_Henderson]

Originally posted by O_P_T
OK, simple question.

If one is to asses blame, is there any aspect of the NO disaster that is the fault of the mayor or Governor of Louisiana?

Yes or no.

OPT - I think the answer is that although there's plenty of blame to go around, I don't particularly expect the state of Louisiana to be an organization that has their shit too together. It's a poor southern state that nearly elected David Duke.

By contrast, I do expect FEMA, in an era of terrorist threat, to operate at a pretty high level, and not to be led by a political appointee whose main administrative experience involves managing an Arabian horse association.

[Mark_Henderson]

Originally posted by dchester
Did anyone happen to be watching ABC last night? Right after the President's speech, they went to a panel of about a dozen people in Houston that had all evacuated from New Orleans (not that it should really matter, but they were all black). It was kind of surprising in that not one of them had anything bad to say about the Bush, but several of them were PO'ed big time at the mayor and governor. One of them admitted that she had a chance to evacuate before the hurricane, but she didn't take the warnings seriously. The ABC moderator there tried to get some of them to say what criticisms they had about Bush, but there were no takers.

I saw that DC. I usually tune to ABC (one of the supposedly liberal networks), because I think that they usually have some of the highest quality news coverage, especially Nightline. Do you think that Fox would have allowed a long segment with Bush bashing evacuees (without moderator spin) to ever make it to air?

[dchester]

Originally posted by Mark_Henderson
I saw that DC. I usually tune to ABC (one of the supposedly liberal networks), because I think that they usually have some of the highest quality news coverage, especially Nightline. Do you think that Fox would have allowed a long segment with Bush bashing evacuees (without moderator spin) to ever make it to air? To be honest, other than Fox News Sunday, I rarely watch much Fox news, (unless there's a breaking event, where I flip around to all the channels). I just don't like many of their hosts (other than Brit Hume), although if they have an interesting guest I'll watch. I do think ABC has a definate liberal slant (just like CBS & CNN), but I like NBC a little better. Actually, I don't mind that a station has a certain slant, but it annoys me sometimes when they try to deny it.

To get back to your question, I think Fox would play a segment that bashed Bush, as I've seen guests do that on their Sunday show (but maybe other shows wouldn't, as I don't watch Fox news all that often). What I found interesting about ABC last night, was that the panels comments didn't seem to be going how the moderator expected it.
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[Mark_Henderson]

Originally posted by dchester
To be honest, other than Fox News Sunday, I rarely watch much Fox news, (unless there's a breaking event, where I flip around to all the channels). I just don't like many of their hosts (other than Brit Hume), although if they have an interesting guest I'll watch. I do think ABC has a definate liberal slant (just like CBS & CNN), but I like NBC a little better. Actually, I don't mind that a station has a certain slant, but it annoys me sometimes when they try to deny it.

To get back to your question, I think Fox would play a segment that bashed Bush, as I've seen guests do that on their Sunday show (but maybe other shows wouldn't, as I don't watch Fox news all that often). What I found interesting about ABC last night, was that the panels comments didn't seem to be going how the moderator expected it.

I agree that the ABC segment was interesting for that reason. I don't watch much Fox "News" either, but from what I have seen, it seems that their liberal guests are often just fodder to be cut off and shot down by the right wing host, kind of like the guests on the old Morton Downey show, except that there isn't a crowd chanting at them.

[O_P_T]

Originally posted by Mark_Henderson
OPT - I think the answer is that although there's plenty of blame to go around, I don't particularly expect the state of Louisiana to be an organization that has their shit too together. It's a poor southern state that nearly elected David Duke.

By contrast, I do expect FEMA, in an era of terrorist threat, to operate at a pretty high level, and not to be led by a political appointee whose main administrative experience involves managing an Arabian horse association.

Mark,

I agree that there is plenty of blame to go around, however if one looks at Thomas's original post, I interpreted his comments as saying "it's all Bush's fault, and OMG he's trying to blame the innocent locals for his mistake".

It was in this context that I asked if there was any blame that could be laid at the feet of the state and local officials.

As far as your expectation of FEMA's capabilities, Arnold Kling (http://www.techcentralstation.com/091205A.html) has an interesting take on the topic.

The Intelligent Design theory on which I propose to debate DeLong might be stated as follows:

An Intelligent Designer can create policies, programs, and organizations through legislative fiat and top-down administration that operate effectively in a centralized manner. Government agencies and bureaucracies are like highly-tuned cars, needing only good navigators and drivers to race them to their goals.

DeLong seems to believe in such a theory of Intelligent Design. I am a skeptic. I believe in the theory of evolution.

Large organizations, in the private sector and the public sector alike, are inherently dehumanizing to employees, clumsy, inflexible, and unable to handle sudden new challenges. In addition, public sector organizations are hampered by political constraints and the stultification that comes from the absence of competition. In the private sector, the pressure of competition means that the surviving large organizations tend to be slightly less dysfunctional than those that go out of business.

Now this is not to say that an incompetent manager can't muck up an organization, but to suggest that the head of FEMA was the only problem is to assume that the rest of the government buracracy is that "highly tuned car".

I don't believe that for a second.

I expect government buracracies to be FUBAR.

That doesn't mean I don't expect them to try and improve their behavior, I just don't expect that they will be perfect.

[dchester]

It looks like the local corruption that New Orleans is so famous for, was not wiped out by Katrina.

Storm Donations Found at City Official's Home (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050922/ap_on_re_us/katrina_pilfered_donations_hk2_2)

BATON ROUGE, La. - Police found cases of food, clothing and tools intended for hurricane victims at the home of the chief administrative officer for a New Orleans suburb, authorities said Wednesday.
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Officers searched Cedric Floyd's home because of complaints that city workers were helping themselves to donations for hurricane victims. Floyd, who runs the day-to-day operations in the suburb of Kenner, was in charge of distributing the goods.

Police plan to seek a charge of committing an illegal act as a public official against Floyd, and more charges against other city workers are possible, police Capt. Steve Caraway said.

The donations filled a large pickup truck four times. "It was an awful lot of stuff," Caraway said.

The donated materials must be processed as evidence but eventually will be distributed to victims. "We have lots of families that are begging for these supplies," said Attorney General Charles Foti, whose office assisted in the investigation.

Attempts to reach Floyd were unsuccessful at home numbers listed under his name in Kenner. His office number went unanswered after business hours.

Philip Ramon, chief of staff to Kenner Mayor Philip Capitano, has said city officials were investigating the alleged pilfering but added that many employees were themselves hurricane victims.
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