What I Believe....

[BuckWild]

I believe I am still adjusting to the Pats being one of "THE" teams.

I believe this success will carry me through another 20 years.

I believe Brady and Belichick will retire from football as Patriots.

I believe both will enter the Hall as Pats.

I believe Troy Brown ,Tedy Bruschi, and Doug Flutie are going to be members of our coaching staff someday.

I believe "Lone Star State of Mind" is the funniest movie I have ever seen that didn't include Monty Python in the title.

I believe that if more people spent time practicing their religion instead of trying to impose it on others the world would be a much better place.

I believe most people who say we are wasting our time in Iraq have never been there.

I believe most people who hate the President have little idea of how our gov't actually works.

I believe most people who love the President suffer from the same affliction.

I believe the freedom to fail is just as important as the chance to succeed.

I believe I have written too much here!

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JamesLavin]

Originally posted by BuckWild
I believe most people who say we are wasting our time in Iraq have never been there.

The same is true of most people who support the war in the face of incontrovertible evidence that the administration insisted on launching the war under false pretences knowing there were no WMDs. What's your point?

I believe most people who hate the President have little idea of how our gov't actually works.


I won't say "hate," but I do believe he is one of the absolute worst presidents in our nation's history. His domestic and foreign policies are both dreadful. I have a magna cum laude degree in government from Harvard. My undergrad thesis won the Government Department's award for best thesis on American government. Perhaps I can be dismissed as a "liberal," but I also have an economics Ph.D., so it's not like I despise capitalism or anything.

The shocking truth is that our federal government has operated for most of its history through debate and compromise. The current ruling party has allowed neither debate nor compromise in recent years. And things are getting even worse. They want to force through judges who can't even win the support of 60 senators, so they seek to destroy the filibuster.

I will not respond further on this topic. I don't want to get pulled into a political debate on a Patriots forum. I have replied because I am disturbed that people would dismiss my beliefs by assuming that those who think as I do are ignorant.

--James

[BuckWild]

Originally posted by JamesLavin
The same is true of most people who support the war in the face of incontrovertible evidence that the administration insisted on launching the war under false pretences knowing there were no WMDs. What's your point?



I won't say "hate," but I do believe he is one of the absolute worst presidents in our nation's history. His domestic and foreign policies are both dreadful. I have a magna cum laude degree in government from Harvard. My undergrad thesis won the Government Department's award for best thesis on American government. Perhaps I can be dismissed as a "liberal," but I also have an economics Ph.D., so it's not like I despise capitalism or anything.

The shocking truth is that our federal government has operated for most of its history through debate and compromise. The current ruling party has allowed neither debate nor compromise in recent years. And things are getting even worse. They want to force through judges who can't even win the support of 60 senators, so they seek to destroy the filibuster.

I will not respond further on this topic. I don't want to get pulled into a political debate on a Patriots forum. I have replied because I am disturbed that people would dismiss my beliefs by assuming that those who think as I do are ignorant.

--James

I seem to have touched a nerve. First, my apologies, for that was not my intention. Second, I do not wish to engage you in any type of debate because I feel that due to your education level I am completely out-gunned. Lastly, I would ask that you put some of that extensive education to work and re-read my post in full, accept the statements at face value for what they say not what you think you read, and to not take any part of it out of the context of it's surrounding statements.

I at no time in the post mentioned or even alluded to the reasons that were originally used to get us into Iraq. What I stated was in reference to the usefulness of what we are now doing, that we are already there. You also take offense to the statement involving hating the President. As you imply that you do not hate him, this removes you from the audience potentially targeted by my statement. You conveniently ignored my statement saying the exact same thing concerning people who love the President. You missed the demonstration of extremes.

Finally, by making your statement you show complete disregard for my post as a whole and clearly demonstrate that education does not a smart person make. You would not have me dismiss your beliefs, which I have not, yet you so quickly dissect my statements and disregard my own beliefs. Come down from your mountain top oh mighty king and walk again amongst the commoners. We mean you no ill will.

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JamesLavin]

Originally posted by BuckWild
I seem to have touched a nerve. First, my apologies, for that was not my intention...

re-read my post in full, accept the statements at face value for what they say not what you think you read, and to not take any part of it out of the context...

You conveniently ignored... You missed...

Finally, by making your statement you show complete disregard for my post as a whole and clearly demonstrate that education does not a smart person make.

Are you apologizing or calling me an *******?

You would not have me dismiss your beliefs, which I have not, yet you so quickly dissect my statements and disregard my own beliefs. Come down from your mountain top oh mighty king and walk again amongst the commoners. We mean you no ill will.

Who the hell said I think of myself as a mighty king and the rest of you are commoners? I don't drive around with a "Harvard" sticker on my car or even put "Dr." on the front of my book. But when someone calls everyone who thinks as I do ignorant (a group that, according to current opinion polls, is well over 50% of Americans), I come out firing. You are spewing bigotry against those who think differently from you. You did it again when you tried to insult me with "Come down from your mountain top oh mighty king and walk again amongst the commoners." Which is it? Are those who disagree with you ignorant or elitists? The fact is, probably at least 170 million Americans disagree with you. Some are dumb. Some are smart. Some are ignorant. Some are better informed than you. Some are blue-collar. Some are "elites." Please don't demonstrate your ignorance by dismissing our views by saying they're the result of ignorance or elitism.

My post has nothing to do with your beliefs or mine, except for your apparent belief that most of those who disagree with you must be ignorant of the facts. Your original post basically said, "If those who object to the Iraq war or our President weren't so ignorant, they would agree with me." That's the height of arrogance. I refuse to debate policy with you (because I doubt either of us would change our mind), but I feel compelled to object to your insulting those who disagree with you. I also hate it when someone "apologizes" to me and then lectures me about why they're right and I'm wrong.

--James

[dchester]

Originally posted by JamesLavin
I don't drive around with a "Harvard" sticker on my car or even put "Dr." on the front of my book. and yet, you felt the need to post both of these to further your "debate" with Buckwild.
:D
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Ford Torino Engine Specifications picture (http://www.ford-wiki.com/wiki/Ford_Torino_Engine_Specifications)

[BuckWild]

I think you have completely missed my point. I at no time called you or anyone ignorant or elitist. I am sorry that you mistook my statement refering to extremes so personal. Now you seem to want to make this personal. While I did intentionally poke at you with the whole come down from your mountain thing, I did it in jest hoping that you might see some humor in it. That is the only time in this short discussion that I intentionally poked at you. I promise it was innocent in its intention.

Do you not agree that extremism in just about every form is not good? I feel exactly the same about those who worship the ground the Pres walks on as I do about those who get spitting mad at the mere mention of his name.

Now if you insist on taking this so out of context and personal than I am afraid I can do nothing to convince you that my intentions were harmless and not directed at any one in particular, just those on the fringe.

Who the hell said I think of myself as a mighty king and the rest of you are commoners? I don't drive around with a "Harvard" sticker on my car or even put "Dr." on the front of my book. But when someone calls everyone who thinks as I do ignorant (a group that, according to current opinion polls, is well over 50% of Americans), I come out firing. You are spewing bigotry against those who think differently from you. You did it again when you tried to insult me with "Come down from your mountain top oh mighty king and walk again amongst the commoners." Which is it? Are those who disagree with you ignorant or elitists? The fact is, probably at least 170 million Americans disagree with you. Some are dumb. Some are smart. Some are ignorant. Some are better informed than you. Some are blue-collar. Some are "elites." Please don't demonstrate your ignorance by dismissing our views by saying they're the result of ignorance or elitism.

Of course, I could just say the hell with it and accuse you of being exactly what I HATE in some people. Pompous arrogance. No one frigging asked you about your damn education. You spout it out as if it some how makes YOU better than others. All that damn education and you can't even comprehend simple english and how the framing of a statement has drastic influence on the intent of the statement.

Your sir appear to be just what I was talking about. The extreme, the fringe. You are an over-educated pompous ass. Just the fact that you feel the need to state that you do not use the address "Dr" clearly demonstrates my point. " I am better than you, but I will still talk to you." Like I am some kind of friggin charity case.

So now I will retract my apology to you. It was sincere at its inception because I honestly felt that You simply misunderstood my post, but your response to my second post clearly demonstrates that you are not of sound mind and that you would refuse to accept my apology regardless of the circumstances, short of bowing at your feet and addressing you as your holiness. Of course my education comes from my up-bringing and my experiences in life, so that may lead me to be crass and unprofessional at times, but atleast I am honest with myself and those around you. That is something you are not, and no amount of education will help you.

So in the words of my non-famous father. "Go blow a goat you book smart, life dumb dipstick!"

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BuckWild]

To the everyone here I would like to apologize for allowing this post to get out of hand. It was not my intention to turn the "I Believe" thread into a political or ideological rave. Please accept my apologies.
And to the moderators, thank you for moving it to a more appropriate place.

Go Pats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BuckWild]

I agree.

For the record, I WAS NOT DEBATING POLITICS. I objected to "People who believe XXXX are ignorant." I objected to name-calling and belittling. I explicitly refused to get drawn into a political debate.

--James

Your are a freakin moron. Up to a point that came about just recently I had not resorted to "name calling and belittling."

You refuse to get drawn into a political debate?!

Nobody drew you into anything. You jumped in with both feet and your eyes closed. Use your friggin education you talk so highly about and tell me where I called YOU anything in my original post. I only stated in my own terms my distaste for extremism.

Not so suprisingly you seem to be the only one who had a problem with my post. And the fact that YOU drew this into a political debate caused my post to get removed from the original thread. This makes you one of the extreme. Your diploma and doctorate aren't worth the paper they are written on.

Let me demonstrate to you just how far below you I am.

F#CK YOU YOU SNOBBISH SHEEP MOLESTER!

That should give you plenty to write about. Either that or it will shut you up!

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JamesLavin]

Originally posted by dchester
and yet, you felt the need to post both of these to further your "debate" with Buckwild.
:D

I have always been embarrassed to wear Harvard or Stanford anything. While most people wear their school's sweatshirt or tee-shirt with pride, I never wear mine outside my house. It's pretty pathetic really. And I've been this way since senior year of high school.

When you publish a book, you are expected to put a bio on the back that gives potential readers some reason to believe you're not just pulling crap out of your ass. I HATE marketing but have to do it now to make people aware of my book that I'm confident they will enjoy. And when someone says that anyone who thinks as I do is ignorant, then it seems relevant.

In retrospect, I wish I had kept the debate away from my background and instead focused it on the countless moderate Republicans--many distinguished, prominent Republicans, some of whom even served in the Bush Administration--who dislike this administration as I do and for many of the same reasons.

--James

[BuckWild]

Originally posted by JamesLavin
I have always been embarrassed to wear Harvard or Stanford anything. While most people wear their school's sweatshirt or tee-shirt with pride, I never wear mine outside my house. It's pretty pathetic really. And I've been this way since senior year of high school.

When you publish a book, you are expected to put a bio on the back that gives potential readers some reason to believe you're not just pulling crap out of your ass. I HATE marketing but have to do it now to make people aware of my book that I'm confident they will enjoy. And when someone says that anyone who thinks as I do is ignorant, then it seems relevant.

In retrospect, I wish I had kept the debate away from my background and instead focused it on the countless moderate Republicans--many distinguished, prominent Republicans, some of whom even served in the Bush Administration--who dislike this administration as I do and for many of the same reasons.

--James

You are amazing. You simply refuse to acknowledge that this whole mess started because YOU misinterpreted my post, not because of your education or because of your political beliefs.

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JamesLavin]

Originally posted by BuckWild
You are amazing. You simply refuse to acknowledge that this whole mess started because YOU misinterpreted my post, not because of your education or because of your political beliefs.

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I actually planned to reply positively to your "Do you not agree that extremism in just about every form is not good? I feel exactly the same about those who worship the ground the Pres walks on as I do about those who get spitting mad at the mere mention of his name." I had re-read your original post and saw that it wasn't as blatantly one-sided as I had originally perceived it to be (though I certainly find it objectionable).

But after reading your vitriol after that, including the charming "F#CK YOU YOU SNOBBISH SHEEP MOLESTER," I see no point in discussing this with you.

--James

[spiderman]

Originally posted by JamesLavin
My undergrad thesis won the Government Department's award for best thesis on American government.

Just out of curiosity, what was your thesis?

[JamesLavin]

Originally posted by spiderman
Just out of curiosity, what was your thesis?

Ironically enough, one of the reviewers gave me a top grade but commented that I was "obviously" conservative.

I argued that there is what I called a "demand-side ratchet effect" in state government spending, by which I meant that in bad economic times, spending is cut somewhat but taxes rise more than spending falls and that in good economic times spending rises faster than tax rates fall. In bad times, people focus on the pain of budget cuts whereas in good economic times people are satisfied with rising spending as long as tax rates stay flat or fall a bit. Over time, spending and tax rates both rise. I demonstrated this using real data over time from all fifty states.

I'm not an ideologue. I try to call things as I see them. But you can't get a "should" from an "is." Facts are facts. Opinions are opinions. Valid opinions must be based on (or at least consistent with) the facts. But reasonable people can agree on the facts and still have different policy viewpoints. This is clear from the reviewer's comment. I wasn't claiming that this ratchet effect was a good or a bad thing (except in that society should probably choose a tax rate consistently over time rather than allow it to drift upward or downward due to human psychology). I was simply describing reality as I saw it. I was being descriptive, not prescriptive.

--James

[bideau]

Originally posted by JamesLavin
I have always been embarrassed to wear Harvard or Stanford anything. While most people wear their school's sweatshirt or tee-shirt with pride, I never wear mine outside my house. It's pretty pathetic really. And I've been this way since senior year of high school.

--James

It's interesting you feel this way.

My wife is also a Harvard grad ('81) and she felt this way for many years. She never wanted anyone to think that she was flaunting her education. She was afraid that some would take it in a negative manner. I witnessed times when after being asked about school and upon hearing the answer, people would have a "Excuse me!!" type of reaction.

A few years ago, she finally decided to say "screw it" and now proudly wears a Harvard sweatshirt whenever possible. She realized that she worked too hard to get into and through Harvard. Plus, her parents invested too much money for her to be shy about it.

The one thing she still refused to do was to properly frame her diploma. For years, it hung in a spare room in a broken frame. Last weekend, our son graduated from Syracuse. She said he should get a nice frame for the diploma. I casually pointed out that she never got one for hers. She's now thinking about getting a proper frame for her diploma.

[spiderman]

Originally posted by JamesLavin
Ironically enough, one of the reviewers gave me a top grade but commented that I was "obviously" conservative.

--James

I have a BA in Political Science (but not from Harvard;) ) and I used to hate getting comments like that on research papers. I've always considered myself a moderate, I guess, but anytime I disagreed with one of my professors in college they would say things like, "You sound like Rush Limbaugh!"

I always hated that.

I despise the labeling process that we adhere to so strictly with regards to political discourse in this country, and couldn't agree more with your comments.

[BuckWild]

Originally posted by JamesLavin
I actually planned to reply positively to your "Do you not agree that extremism in just about every form is not good? I feel exactly the same about those who worship the ground the Pres walks on as I do about those who get spitting mad at the mere mention of his name." I had re-read your original post and saw that it wasn't as blatantly one-sided as I had originally perceived it to be (though I certainly find it objectionable).

But after reading your vitriol after that, including the charming "F#CK YOU YOU SNOBBISH SHEEP MOLESTER," I see no point in discussing this with you.

--James

OK Dr. Lavin,
I used the Dr out of respect for your educational and professional accomplishments, not to be a wise ass. I wish to put this episode behind us.

First my sincere apologies for losing self control and resorting to blatant vulgarism. It was uncalled for to say the least. As a normal rule I try to refrain from stooping to such low levels, but alas I occassionally falter.

I am a bit troubled that you would still find my original post objectionable, but only if you mean that in a personal way versus the debatable aspect. I believe myself to be just about centered on most things except the belief that a majority of politicians have no ones' needs in mind except their own. On that bit I, myself, might be considered extreme.

I sense that our political beliefs may not be as far apart as one might assume. We may have differing levels of emotional involement on issues, but at the baseline we are probably similar.

I appreciate your acknowledgement that my original post was not "as blatantly one-sided as I had originally perceived it to be." Again my intent was to address the extremes and show my appreciation of a more centrist view.

Again, you have my apologies for the direction this thread was allowed to go and I truly look forward to calmly discussing the Patriots and all manner of things with you in the future.

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Threadkiller]

Originally posted by BuckWild
OK Dr. Lavin,
I used the Dr out of respect for your educational and professional accomplishments, not to be a wise ass. I wish to put this episode behind us.

First my sincere apologies for losing self control and resorting to blatant vulgarism. It was uncalled for to say the least. As a normal rule I try to refrain from stooping to such low levels, but alas I occassionally falter.

I am a bit troubled that you would still find my original post objectionable, but only if you mean that in a personal way versus the debatable aspect. I believe myself to be just about centered on most things except the belief that a majority of politicians have no ones' needs in mind except their own. On that bit I, myself, might be considered extreme.

I sense that our political beliefs may not be as far apart as one might assume. We may have differing levels of emotional involement on issues, but at the baseline we are probably similar.

I appreciate your acknowledgement that my original post was not "as blatantly one-sided as I had originally perceived it to be." Again my intent was to address the extremes and show my appreciation of a more centrist view.

Again, you have my apologies for the direction this thread was allowed to go and I truly look forward to calmly discussing the Patriots and all manner of things with you in the future.

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude! It's 2 blue ones and one red one. Not the other way. I think they've got your meds screwed up.

[BuckWild]

Originally posted by dreithraider76
Dude! It's 2 blue ones and one red one. Not the other way. I think they've got your meds screwed up.

NOW you friggin tell me!!

So those 3 foot long pink and green mice are not real?!

Thanks

BuckWild!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!